2022 Bullpen Thread

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Koufax only missed one game?

 

Are you counting being pushed back one day as a miss?

 

I did type one day. It was Game One of the '65 WS; I mistakenly said Sabbath, but it was actually Yom Kippur. Don Drysdale started instead and lost to Minnesota. Koufax started Game Two and lost that one, too. Then he threw complete-game shutouts in Game Five and Game Seven...

[moonslav59]

I did type one day. It was Game One of the '65 WS; I mistakenly said Sabbath, but it was actually Yom Kippur. Don Drysdale started instead and lost to Minnesota. Koufax started Game Two and lost that one, too. Then he threw complete-game shutouts in Game Five and Game Seven...

 

Okay. I wouldn't surprised to find out he pitched on shorter rest as much as getting an extra day's rest over his career due to his choice not to pitch on the Sabbath.

[Bellhorn04]

That's all it should be about here. It's not like before vaccines were available, when a president of one country ordered workers back into the close quarters of meat processing plants while a deadly, contagious virus was raging. That could be considered political to some.

 

These are unprecedented times. Someone mentioned Sandy Koufax refusing to pitch on the Sabbath for religious beliefs. That was almost 60 years ago, and he only missed one day -- not an entire series or multiple series. Fans were still ok with Koufax in that World Series, since he still went out and won a ring and the MVP.

 

At least Sox fans have to like Bloom deflecting responsibility away from his players. He noted it was his job to ensure they always had enough depth to overcome any missed games by guys on the roster. It's a tall task, though, to instantly replace the production of both a new closer and leadoff batter.

 

If anyone deserves a break by the fans in this situation, it's Chaim Bloom...

 

Nobody is blaming Bloom for any of this, AFAIK. The blame is squarely being placed on the players.

[moonslav59]

Nobody is blaming Bloom for any of this, AFAIK. The blame is squarely being placed on the players.

 

..and the Canadian Government, by some.

[Maxbialystock]

That's all it should be about here. It's not like before vaccines were available, when a president of one country ordered workers back into the close quarters of meat processing plants while a deadly, contagious virus was raging. That could be considered political to some.

 

These are unprecedented times. Someone mentioned Sandy Koufax refusing to pitch on the Sabbath for religious beliefs. That was almost 60 years ago, and he only missed one day -- not an entire series or multiple series. Fans were still ok with Koufax in that World Series, since he still went out and won a ring and the MVP.

 

At least Sox fans have to like Bloom deflecting responsibility away from his players. He noted it was his job to ensure they always had enough depth to overcome any missed games by guys on the roster. It's a tall task, though, to instantly replace the production of both a new closer and leadoff batter.

 

If anyone deserves a break by the fans in this situation, it's Chaim Bloom...

 

Practically everything a President does is political. That's what we pay them (and vote for them) for. While I was outraged at that particular decision about meat plant workers, even then I understand that every leader/politician during this pandemic has had to weigh fighting the disease in accordance with the best science available vs. the effects on the economy, jobs, etc. My personal preference has been to err on the side of the best available science: masks and social distancing everywhere all the time, massive inoculations once they were available.

 

I'm a huge Koufax fan in every way.

 

And I agree completely with your characterization of Chaim Bloom.

 

Today we know a lot more and have partly succeeded in combatting the pandemic. So, while I disagree with Houck's determination that vaccinations are bad, I don't disagree that he is primarily affecting himself and not the rest of us.

 

As for hurting the team, to me that's all on the MLBPA, who have been ever vigilant and successful in enabling players to do almost everything their way.

 

I agree with whoever said that, with respect to missed games by Houck, Sale, Duran, whoever, the best outcome is that Cora keeps those absences from affecting/infecting the team as a whole. I think he can pull that off. I mean he practically invented giving guys days off.

 

We are lucky to have Chaim and Alex, Bloom and Cora.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[notin]

Practically everything a President does is political. That's what we pay them (and vote for them) for. While I was outraged at that particular decision about meat plant workers, even then I understand that every leader/politician during this pandemic has had to weigh fighting the disease in accordance with the best science available vs. the effects on the economy, jobs, etc. My personal preference has been to err on the side of the best available science: masks and social distancing everywhere all the time, massive inoculations once they were available.

 

I'm a huge Koufax fan in every way.

 

And I agree completely with your characterization of Chaim Bloom.

 

Today we know a lot more and have partly succeeded in combatting the pandemic. So, while I disagree with Houck's determination that vaccinations are bad, I don't disagree that he is primarily affecting himself and not the rest of us.

 

As for hurting the team, to me that's all on the MLBPA, who have been ever vigilant and successful in enabling players to do almost everything their way.

 

I agree with whoever said that, with respect to missed games by Houck, Sale, Duran, whoever, the best outcome is that Cora keeps those absences from affecting/infecting the team as a whole. I think he can pull that off. I mean he practically invented giving guys days off.

 

We are lucky to have Chaim and Alex, Bloom and Cora.

 

Of course the one thing everyone seems to be ignoring is that with all these unvaccinated players, this is a team that nearly saw a stellar bounce back season detailed last year by a COVID outbreak…

[Bellhorn04]

Of course the one thing everyone seems to be ignoring is that with all these unvaccinated players, this is a team that nearly saw a stellar bounce back season detailed last year by a COVID outbreak…

 

Lots of teams have had COVID issues last year and this year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Practically everything a President does is political. That's what we pay them (and vote for them) for. While I was outraged at that particular decision about meat plant workers, even then I understand that every leader/politician during this pandemic has had to weigh fighting the disease in accordance with the best science available vs. the effects on the economy, jobs, etc. My personal preference has been to err on the side of the best available science: masks and social distancing everywhere all the time, massive inoculations once they were available.

 

I'm a huge Koufax fan in every way.

 

And I agree completely with your characterization of Chaim Bloom.

 

Today we know a lot more and have partly succeeded in combatting the pandemic. So, while I disagree with Houck's determination that vaccinations are bad, I don't disagree that he is primarily affecting himself and not the rest of us.

 

As for hurting the team, to me that's all on the MLBPA, who have been ever vigilant and successful in enabling players to do almost everything their way.

 

I agree with whoever said that, with respect to missed games by Houck, Sale, Duran, whoever, the best outcome is that Cora keeps those absences from affecting/infecting the team as a whole. I think he can pull that off. I mean he practically invented giving guys days off.

 

We are lucky to have Chaim and Alex, Bloom and Cora.

 

I still consider it a minor miracle -- and already underrated in Red Sox lore -- that so many key guys got sidelined with Covid last summer and they still won 92 and went as far as they did. From August 27 (when half a dozen guys tested positive) through September 8 (Bogaerts' last missed game), Bloom and Cora were somehow able to coax the Sox to a 7-6 record and stay in the hunt.

 

There's a group statue in my dizziness of Arauz, Iglesias, Jack Lopez, Taylor Motter, and Yairo Muniz.

[Larry Cook]

O Canada! The government doing whatever it takes to give their team an edge!

[moonslav59]

O Canada! The government doing whatever it takes to give their team an edge!

 

I could see them waiting until the Jays are eliminated to rescind the law.

Edited June 24, 2022 by moonslav59

[Larry Cook]

I could see them waiting until the Jays are eliminated to rescind the law.

 

Might take quite a long time to rescind, as the jays are a fine looking team. Maybe a pitcher away from making serious noise in the post season.

[notin]

O Canada! The government doing whatever it takes to give their team an edge!

 

Yep. Like they did in hockey. And that worked out as we have a Stanley Cup final between two historic Canadian franchises - the Colorado Avalanche and the Tampa Bay Lightning…

[JDavis76]

Practically everything a President does is political. That's what we pay them (and vote for them) for. While I was outraged at that particular decision about meat plant workers, even then I understand that every leader/politician during this pandemic has had to weigh fighting the disease in accordance with the best science available vs. the effects on the economy, jobs, etc. My personal preference has been to err on the side of the best available science: masks and social distancing everywhere all the time, massive inoculations once they were available.

 

I'm a huge Koufax fan in every way.

 

And I agree completely with your characterization of Chaim Bloom.

 

Today we know a lot more and have partly succeeded in combatting the pandemic. So, while I disagree with Houck's determination that vaccinations are bad, I don't disagree that he is primarily affecting himself and not the rest of us.

 

As for hurting the team, to me that's all on the MLBPA, who have been ever vigilant and successful in enabling players to do almost everything their way.

 

I agree with whoever said that, with respect to missed games by Houck, Sale, Duran, whoever, the best outcome is that Cora keeps those absences from affecting/infecting the team as a whole. I think he can pull that off. I mean he practically invented giving guys days off.

 

We are lucky to have Chaim and Alex, Bloom and Cora.

 

And the science shows that masks/lockdowns actually had little to no impact on mortality rates. But the lockdowns certainly did cause major economic damage.

[moonslav59]

And the science shows that masks/lockdowns actually had little to no impact on mortality rates. But the lockdowns certainly did cause major economic damage.

 

Nothing to do with the bullpen. Post this on the Yankee thread.

[mvp 78]

Thank you for this wonderful baseball discussion everyone...

[JDavis76]

Nothing to do with the bullpen. Post this on the Yankee thread.

 

Well, genius, it really doesn't have much to do with the Yankees either. Much like your posts on the Yankee thread.

[notin]

Well, genius, it really doesn't have much to do with the Yankees either. Much like your posts on the Yankee thread.

 

There are probably 1,000 or so boards on the Internet to discuss this. Choose one. Take it there…

[JDavis76]

There are probably 1,000 or so boards on the Internet to discuss this. Choose one. Take it there…

 

Maybe you should heed your own advice as you also took part in the discussion. Think much before you post?

[dgalehouse]

Politics is supposed to be taboo on TalkSox . But to be fair , it should go both ways. Too often , it doesn't do that. If there are rules , they should apply to all.

[Bellhorn04]

There are probably 1,000 or so boards on the Internet to discuss this. Choose one. Take it there…

 

He's a troll, notin. You can't reason with trolls. That's why they're trolls.

[JDavis76]

He's a troll, notin. You can't reason with trolls. That's why they're trolls.

 

Umm, you don't see the irony of him telling me to take the conversation elsewhere when he in fact engaged in the same conversation as well??!!

[JDavis76]

Politics is supposed to be taboo on TalkSox . But to be fair , it should go both ways. Too often , it doesn't do that. If there are rules , they should apply to all.

 

+++1

[mvp 78]

How about we all just f***ing move on already?

[Maxbialystock]

And the science shows that masks/lockdowns actually had little to no impact on mortality rates. But the lockdowns certainly did cause major economic damage.

 

That is not true. Masks, distancing, and vaccinations all prevented COVID and deaths from COVID. Those are verities that are irrefutable. They did not of course prevent all COVID nor all deaths. Some of those were no doubt unavoidable, but unquestionably some others were the direct result of people not masking or distancing or not getting vaccinated.

 

Whatever science you are citing is false science.

 

I'm equally sure that what you call lockdowns affected the economy. They also affected children kept away from school. But vaccinations and masks did not.

[Larry Cook]

Game one in Cleveland, pivetta was great. Offense was solid with two taters and ten other hits, houck was wobbly, but we got the win.

 

Bullpen needs to put on their big boy pants and be lights out tomorrow for game two with Bieber going against Winkowski!

[moonslav59]

Game one in Cleveland, pivetta was great. Offense was solid with two taters and ten other hits, houck was wobbly, but we got the win.

 

Bullpen needs to put on their big boy pants and be lights out tomorrow for game two with Bieber going against Winkowski!

 

Thanks for returning the thread to baseball.

 

Pivetta has become a real force. I love the energy and passion he puts into his starts.

 

I think that rubs off on the team.

[JDavis76]

That is not true. Masks, distancing, and vaccinations all prevented COVID and deaths from COVID. Those are verities that are irrefutable. They did not of course prevent all COVID nor all deaths. Some of those were no doubt unavoidable, but unquestionably some others were the direct result of people not masking or distancing or not getting vaccinated.

 

Whatever science you are citing is false science.

 

I'm equally sure that what you call lockdowns affected the economy. They also affected children kept away from school. But vaccinations and masks did not.

 

Nonsense, just because you don't like or agree with the findings does not make them wrong. And studies have shown that masks certainly did have an adverse effect on a child's development.

[Maxbialystock]

Speaking of the bullpen, last night was a little scary. Pivetta went 7 giving up 2 for his ninth quality start, which tied him for 12th in MLB. The leaders (Musgrove, Valdez, and Manoah) each have 12.

 

QS ain't the best stat, but it does suggest a pitcher that held his own for 2/3 of a game and almost certainly pitched to the opposing lineup into the third time around. In this instance, Pivetta was working on his 4th time through Cleveland's lineup.

 

Then in came Schreiber for an absolutely clean 8th inning against Cleveland's 3d (Jose Ramirez), 4th, and 5th hitters.

 

The 9th should have been a piece of cake with a 4 run lead and facing Cleveland's 6th, 7th, and 8th batters, but turned into Friday the 13th with Houck, our newly anointed, no-baloney closer, in the role of Freddy Krueger. He did finally get the last out--a groundout by the great Jose Ramirez with the bases freaking loaded and the score now 6-3--which I think showed some grit. But of course it wasn't a save because he came in with that 4 run lead.

 

Houck is, I think, probably the best choice right now for closer despite the fact that he can in fact be hit--he's given up 41 in 45 innings. But he leads the Sox in saves with 5 and has no blown saves.

 

So to me this is a measure of what Chaim Bloom has provided Alex Cora. Nine Sox relievers have had save opportunities and Houck is hands down the best. Houck, we should remember, has also started, sometimes successfully, and been used as a long reliever. His WAR is +.8, tied with DAvis and Whitlock for 5th best on the Sox, and his 45.1 innings are the most of any Sox reliever.

[Old Red]

Speaking of the bullpen, last night was a little scary. Pivetta went 7 giving up 2 for his ninth quality start, which tied him for 12th in MLB. The leaders (Musgrove, Valdez, and Manoah) each have 12.

 

QS ain't the best stat, but it does suggest a pitcher that held his own for 2/3 of a game and almost certainly pitched to the opposing lineup into the third time around. In this instance, Pivetta was working on his 4th time through Cleveland's lineup.

 

Then in came Schreiber for an absolutely clean 8th inning against Cleveland's 3d (Jose Ramirez), 4th, and 5th hitters.

 

The 9th should have been a piece of cake with a 4 run lead and facing Cleveland's 6th, 7th, and 8th batters, but turned into Friday the 13th with Houck, our newly anointed, no-baloney closer, in the role of Freddy Krueger. He did finally get the last out--a groundout by the great Jose Ramirez with the bases freaking loaded and the score now 6-3--which I think showed some grit. But of course it wasn't a save because he came in with that 4 run lead.

 

Houck is, I think, probably the best choice right now for closer despite the fact that he can in fact be hit--he's given up 41 in 45 innings. But he leads the Sox in saves with 5 and has no blown saves.

 

So to me this is a measure of what Chaim Bloom has provided Alex Cora. Nine Sox relievers have had save opportunities and Houck is hands down the best. Houck, we should remember, has also started, sometimes successfully, and been used as a long reliever. His WAR is +.8, tied with DAvis and Whitlock for 5th best on the Sox, and his 45.1 innings are the most of any Sox reliever.

 

Bottom line Houck has 5 saves, and no blown saves, but has been shaky at best. What happens when he comes in with a 1 run lead? Schreiber has been their best pitcher out of the pen. Cora said the plan right now is to activate Whitlock on Mon, but hasn’t said what the plan is for his use.

[Bellhorn04]

Bottom line Houck has 5 saves, and no blown saves, but has been shaky at best. What happens when he comes in with a 1 run lead? Schreiber has been their best pitcher out of the pen. Cora said the plan right now is to activate Whitlock on Mon, but hasn’t said what the plan is for his use.

 

1) Houck's first save was a 1-run lead, June 10 at Seattle.

2) Schreiber has moved up the trust ladder in a big hurry and will no doubt get some closing opportunities at some point.

3) Whitlock will be returning to the rotation, why would you think any differently?