Will there be a 2022 season?

[oldtimer]

I agree, just as I've always known that people like me are a part of the problem, but there's a difference between a "lockout" as it involves the players and the teams and how a "lockout' by the fans and the season ticket holders in particular.

 

This lockout will end eventually and life will go back to normal for the players and the owners. However, things are different for the season ticket holders who choose to 'lock out' the Red Sox. The teams are holding the season ticket holders hostage because once one gives up their ST tix they don't get a chance to buy them for future years. And there's a waiting list to buy them.

 

I'd like to make a statement by "locking out" the Red Sox organization for this season by not buying ST tix for this year but if I do that I lose my ST tixs probably forever. Since I've been a Sox fan all my life and I'm now able to give myself the luxury of going to Ft. Myers I'm not ready to shut the door on it.

 

Each of us needs to make that value judgment. I have been a fan for a very long time but am often frustrated by both the owners and the players who treat fans with little consideration. How many extra fans are out there willing t shell out the big bucks for seasons tickets? I would be for lower salaries and profits so that the product would become more affordable.

[dgalehouse]

I agree, just as I've always known that people like me are a part of the problem, but there's a difference between a "lockout" as it involves the players and the teams and how a "lockout' by the fans and the season ticket holders in particular.

 

This lockout will end eventually and life will go back to normal for the players and the owners. However, things are different for the season ticket holders who choose to 'lock out' the Red Sox. The teams are holding the season ticket holders hostage because once one gives up their ST tix they don't get a chance to buy them for future years. And there's a waiting list to buy them.

 

I'd like to make a statement by "locking out" the Red Sox organization for this season by not buying ST tix for this year but if I do that I lose my ST tixs probably forever. Since I've been a Sox fan all my life and I'm now able to give myself the luxury of going to Ft. Myers I'm not ready to shut the door on it.

 

Absolutely . You work all your life , make money and set yourself and your family up securely. You have every right to spend what you want on the things that give you enjoyment and satisfaction. It would be foolish to give that up. And season ticket sales are only one part of the MLB revenue stream. I was just referring to how it is a big mistake for MLB , or any business for that matter , to take their customers ( fans) for granted.

[jad]

Each of us needs to make that value judgment. I have been a fan for a very long time but am often frustrated by both the owners and the players who treat fans with little consideration. How many extra fans are out there willing t shell out the big bucks for seasons tickets? I would be for lower salaries and profits so that the product would become more affordable.

 

You've been following baseball enough and sports to know that salaries have nothing to do with ticket prices. Ticket prices are determined by bean-counters who calculate what price produces the maximum take. They don't care whether players make millions or play for free; the math is the same.

[Kimmi]

I got an email from the Sox recently saying that I should expect the bill for tickets in my mailbox next week (or I could pay it online!)

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the hubris of the ownership of a team who would lock the players out and then sell tickets to games that may not happen because of their own lockout.

 

This is almost the definition of 'Having it Both Ways'.

 

1. I am guessing that the owners are anticipating the preseason and the season to be played.

 

2. Do you receive a refund for any games that are not played?

[S5Dewey]

1. I am guessing that the owners are anticipating the preseason and the season to be played.

 

2. Do you receive a refund for any games that are not played?

 

1a. That could be true. Or it could also be true that the owners intend to have a shortened season that starts in, say, May or June. In that case they're still going to need a Spring Training. Where does that leave ST ticket holders who have come from all over the East of the Mississippi and have condos, rooms, and cars reserved for March? Will the Sox take the attitude of, "Gee, we're having Spring Training in May this year and we're willing to honor the tickets you've bought. It's too bad you can't make it. But.. it sucks to be you, I guess."

 

2a. That's the great question and the answer is yet to be determined. I do know that when they cancelled games in 2020 they gave ticket holders the option of their refunding the ticket money for games not played or applying it toward future games. I also know that they allowed ST ticket holders to opt out of tickets for the 2021 Spring Training season without jeopardizing their future tickets. But those was all for games that weren't going to be played. If there is a 2022 season (and I believe there will be, sooner or later) there will be a Spring Training and games are going to be played, and I don't trust the FO to not screw the fans.

 

In the past I've been able to see both sides of the players/owners situation... but not now. Not that it matters, but I've now had an epiphany and I'm firmly on the side of the players. The owners have proven through their continual raising of ticket prices and access fees for cable networks (not to mention the price of beer at parks!) that fans will pay whatever is necessary to see baseball and have a good time. So what's the freakin' problem?

[Kimmi]

1a. That could be true. Or it could also be true that the owners intend to have a shortened season that starts in, say, May or June. In that case they're still going to need a Spring Training. Where does that leave ST ticket holders who have come from all over the East of the Mississippi and have condos, rooms, and cars reserved for March? Will the Sox take the attitude of, "Gee, we're having Spring Training in May this year and we're willing to honor the tickets you've bought. It's too bad you can't make it. But.. it sucks to be you, I guess."

 

2a. That's the great question and the answer is yet to be determined. I do know that when they cancelled games in 2020 they gave ticket holders the option of their refunding the ticket money for games not played or applying it toward future games. I also know that they allowed ST ticket holders to opt out of tickets for the 2021 Spring Training season without jeopardizing their future tickets. But those was all for games that weren't going to be played. If there is a 2022 season (and I believe there will be, sooner or later) there will be a Spring Training and games are going to be played, and I don't trust the FO to not screw the fans.

 

In the past I've been able to see both sides of the players/owners situation... but not now. Not that it matters, but I've now had an epiphany and I'm firmly on the side of the players. The owners have proven through their continual raising of ticket prices and access fees for cable networks (not to mention the price of beer at parks!) that fans will pay whatever is necessary to see baseball and have a good time. So what's the freakin' problem?

 

I seriously hope that the owners would refund the tickets if ST games are not played, or if they're played at a later date. If tickets are not refunded, then shame, shame, shame on the owners.

 

Do I think the owners care about the fans? Probably not, though I think most care enough to put a good enough product on the field to get the fans in the seats. Do the players care about the fans any more than the owners do? The players don't control the ticket prices, but if ticket prices were directly related to their salaries, how many players would be willing to take discounts so that fans could pay less for tickets?

[Bellhorn04]

All I know is that baseball has a shameful history of giving fans abbreviated seasons because of labor-management disputes:

 

1972

1981

1994

1995

 

Will 2022 be added to the list?

[moonslav59]

All I know is that baseball has a shameful history of giving fans abbreviated seasons because of labor-management disputes:

 

1972

1981

1994

1995

 

Will 2022 be added to the list?

 

I know people said baseball may not recover from previous work stoppages, but it always did.

 

I'm not so sure about this time. There are more and more entertainment options available than before, and the younger generation has exposure to so many other options.

 

They better not mess this up. Baseball may decline, even if no missed time occurs.

[Bellhorn04]

I know people said baseball may not recover from previous work stoppages, but it always did.

 

It did, but for any long-term fans 1994 still leaves a horrible taste. My father lost interest in baseball after that.

 

The poor folks known as Montreal Expos fans are still bitter about it, deservedly so.

 

It left a mark, and the mark remains.

[moonslav59]

It did, but for any long-term fans 1994 still leaves a horrible taste. My father lost interest in baseball after that.

 

The poor folks known as Montreal Expos fans are still bitter about it, deservedly so.

 

It left a mark, and the mark remains.

 

Agreed.

[notin]

It did, but for any long-term fans 1994 still leaves a horrible taste. My father lost interest in baseball after that.

 

The poor folks known as Montreal Expos fans are still bitter about it, deservedly so.

 

It left a mark, and the mark remains.

 

The poor folk in Montreal did largely ignore the franchise for 35 years…

[Bellhorn04]

The poor folk in Montreal did largely ignore the franchise for 35 years…

 

Oh yeah. They deserved to have the franchise moved.

 

They didn't deserve to have their best shot at a title rubbed out, though.

 

And of course it's the fans who actually care and show up to the games that get punished...

[notin]

Oh yeah. They deserved to have the franchise moved.

 

They didn't deserve to have their best shot at a title rubbed out, though.

 

And of course it's the fans who actually care and show up to the games that get punished...

 

True. Both of them had a legitimate gripe…

[jad]

I seriously hope that the owners would refund the tickets if ST games are not played, or if they're played at a later date. If tickets are not refunded, then shame, shame, shame on the owners.

 

Do I think the owners care about the fans? Probably not, though I think most care enough to put a good enough product on the field to get the fans in the seats. Do the players care about the fans any more than the owners do? The players don't control the ticket prices, but if ticket prices were directly related to their salaries, how many players would be willing to take discounts so that fans could pay less for tickets?

 

Yes, IF ticket prices were related to salaries, which they are not. What would you do if your boss said your clients/customers/students would be better off it you took a salary cut? (but they weren't willing to take a salary cut themselves).

[S5Dewey]

Here's something I didn't know, courtesy of Alex Spier (Sp?)

 

...that CBA [that just expired] included a sunset provision for the luxury tax after the 2021 season — meaning the normalized disincentives to spend freely would have gone by the wayside. There’s a 0 percent chance that owners would be willing to operate in an economic system that doesn’t include a luxury-tax threshold."

[moonslav59]

Here's something I didn't know, courtesy of Alex Spier (Sp?)

 

...that CBA [that just expired] included a sunset provision for the luxury tax after the 2021 season — meaning the normalized disincentives to spend freely would have gone by the wayside. There’s a 0 percent chance that owners would be willing to operate in an economic system that doesn’t include a luxury-tax threshold."

 

That explains the lockout.

[Bellhorn04]

That explains the lockout.

 

So why the hell was it in the CBA? Seems like a lockout was pre-ordained.

[moonslav59]

So why the hell was it in the CBA? Seems like a lockout was pre-ordained.

 

Maybe the players demanded it.

 

If Congress demands they play ball under the old CBA, the players win, bigly.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe the players demanded it.

 

If Congress demands they play ball under the old CBA, the players win, bigly.

 

How so?

[moonslav59]

How so?

 

I'm assuming, if they go back to the last CBA, the clause about no lux tax carry-over would be in effect, and owners could sign more players, but I guess the threat of a new CBA and new lux tax structure or even a cap might still prohibit excessive signings.

[Kimmi]

Yes, IF ticket prices were related to salaries, which they are not. What would you do if your boss said your clients/customers/students would be better off it you took a salary cut? (but they weren't willing to take a salary cut themselves).

 

Are the players being asked to take a salary cut?

[jad]

Are the players being asked to take a salary cut?

 

I'm just responding to what you said above. Your words: "The players don't control the ticket prices, but if ticket prices were directly related to their salaries, how many players would be willing to take discounts so that fans could pay less for tickets?" The answer, of course, is none, just as it would be if you and I were asked to take a pay cut for the benefit of our bosses and clients/customers/students.

 

(Maybe we're making the same point and are just mis-reading our comments!)

[mvp 78]

Here's something I didn't know, courtesy of Alex Spier (Sp?)

 

...that CBA [that just expired] included a sunset provision for the luxury tax after the 2021 season — meaning the normalized disincentives to spend freely would have gone by the wayside. There’s a 0 percent chance that owners would be willing to operate in an economic system that doesn’t include a luxury-tax threshold."

 

With Speier, just think "is it i before e or e before i" and it's both. SpEIEr.

[mvp 78]

Maybe the players demanded it.

 

If Congress demands they play ball under the old CBA, the players win, bigly.

 

And wouldn't the "big market" teams be ok with it?

[oldtimer]

I'm just responding to what you said above. Your words: "The players don't control the ticket prices, but if ticket prices were directly related to their salaries, how many players would be willing to take discounts so that fans could pay less for tickets?" The answer, of course, is none, just as it would be if you and I were asked to take a pay cut for the benefit of our bosses and clients/customers/students.

 

(Maybe we're making the same point and are just mis-reading our comments!)

 

Ticket prices could be forced down if fan interest wanes enough. The baseball hierarchy should include the fans when making their calculations. It doesn't appear that is the case.

[mvp 78]

The next negotiation meeting between MLB and MLBPA has yet to be scheduled.

[jad]

Ticket prices could be forced down if fan interest wanes enough. The baseball hierarchy should include the fans when making their calculations. It doesn't appear that is the case.

 

Right. IF fan interest goes down. Again, this has nothing to do with player salaries. Ticket prices are determined without reference to player salaries.

 

(It would be easier to argue that fan interest INCREASES as salaries do.)

[notin]

Right. IF fan interest goes down. Again, this has nothing to do with player salaries. Ticket prices are determined without reference to player salaries.

 

(It would be easier to argue that fan interest INCREASES as salaries do.)

 

 

I find that hard to believe.

 

At some point, teams need to include their operating costs into their ticket prices, and player salaries are definitely part of their operating costs.

 

Players’ salaries are probably not as significant of a part of ticket prices as many fans believe, but I have to think they get included in there somewhere…

[mvp 78]

I find that hard to believe.

 

At some point, teams need to include their operating costs into their ticket prices, and player salaries are definitely part of their operating costs.

 

Players’ salaries are probably not as significant of a part of ticket prices as many fans believe, but I have to think they get included in there somewhere…

 

The Rays make 82M a year just from TV revenue. My guess is that tickets and in person revenue varies greatly from market to market. Maybe stadium expenses are treated like marketing expenses for the tv show?

[dgalehouse]

MLB teams , like all businesses , want to make a profit. Ticket sales are a part of revenue . Player salaries are a part of expenses. They would like to maximize the revenue and minimize the expenses . The problem is ; how to do it without diminishing the product and alienating the customers ( fans) and the employees ( players). Some are better at it than others.