Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[mvp 78]

Bogey has full no trade after 7 yrs in contract.

 

I don't believe this is the case.

[mvp 78]

I don't believe this is the case.

 

Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic broached this topic in a recent column. While he stopped short of reporting any substantive news, the insider did provide some reasons to believe that Bogaerts could be traded. Let’s break it down quickly.

 

The six-year, $120 million extension Bogaerts signed last year included a full no-trade clause once the two-time All-Star reaches seven years of service time. That comes on Sept. 6, one week after the trade deadline.

[Hugh2]

So, why pay that much for a 4th OF'er?

 

It has to be about the prospects and the future.

 

I had mentioned we might trade Renfroe, but I never expected it to be for a more expensive guy like JBJ.

 

Well first off I'm not the Red Sox so I don't feel obligated to fully defend this position. But it's for only one year, a year in which they're willing to go over the cap anyways, but they're also getting prospects back in return. They effectively got a guy who was considered by some a top 15 talent in this past years draft.

 

Also, and this is conjecture, I think it's unfair to call it a trade of Renfroe for JBJ, because those prospects have value and I don't think JBJ is replacing Renfroe as an everday player.

[Hugh2]

Adding the two prospects is a big win for Bloom. Prior to 2021, most of us would have been more comfortable having JBJ in the OF than Renfroe. Renfroe had a good year, but his strong arm bailed out his poor defense. He had some good highlight plays, but had even more lowlight plays. I'm not sure JBJ is much of a downgrade from Renfroe going forward.

 

It's a downgrade, but I don't think JBJ is starting, I think they sign someone else. So comparing JBJ to Renfroe without considering the other pieces is the wrong way to evaluate this trade, which you did not do but I'm just saying.

[moonslav59]

Well first off I'm not the Red Sox so I don't feel obligated to fully defend this position. But it's for only one year, a year in which they're willing to go over the cap anyways, but they're also getting prospects back in return. They effectively got a guy who was considered by some a top 15 talent in this past years draft.

 

Also, and this is conjecture, I think it's unfair to call it a trade of Renfroe for JBJ, because those prospects have value and I don't think JBJ is replacing Renfroe as an everday player.

 

It's actually more than a year. He has a $12M option for 2023 with an $8M buy out!

[cp176]

it is not a move that impresses me at all. i don't expect it to help us now or in the future.

[Old Red]

It's actually more than a year. He has a $12M option for 2023 with an $8M buy out!

 

It sounds like we bailed out Milwaukee getting out of a real bad contract, and the bad contract is ours prospects or not.

[Hugh2]

It's not a 100% safe bet, but I think it's a pretty good and fair assumption to assume that JBJ is NOT REPLACING Renfroe in the field. That's the wrong way to look this trade. JBJ is going to get less playing time than Renfroe.

 

The Sox effectively took on a bad contract to buy some prospects and I hope they go out and sign someone to play LF (Schwarber, Bryant, Suzuki). If they do that, the outfield and lineup is actually better next year and the farm system is stronger. I don't love this move, but I like it if it's followed with another outfield signing.

[moonslav59]

it is not a move that impresses me at all. i don't expect it to help us now or in the future.

 

The prospects might, but I'm kind of in shock.

[moonslav59]

It's not a 100% safe bet, but I think it's a pretty good and fair assumption to assume that JBJ is NOT REPLACING Renfroe in the field. That's the wrong way to look this trade. JBJ is going to get less playing time than Renfroe.

 

The Sox effectively took on a bad contract to buy some prospects and I hope they go out and sign someone to play LF (Schwarber, Bryant, Suzuki). If they do that, the outfield and lineup is actually better next year and the farm system is stronger. I don't love this move, but I like it if it's followed with another outfield signing.

 

So, it appears it's not about going over the old lux tax line- it's about building beyond 2022.

[moonslav59]

Both of the prospects were in Milwaukee's top 20, so I wonder where they fit in our list.

[moonslav59]

JBJ also had a sub 600 OPS as a 24 year old. The next year it went up to 833 the following year.

 

He also hit .814 at age 30 and will only be turning 32 by ST'ing.

 

His .497 OPS in 428 PAs in 2021 is amazingly bad. The 428 PAs is shocking.

 

He once had a slugging % of .498!

[Hugh2]

So, it appears it's not about going over the old lux tax line- it's about building beyond 2022.

 

It's about 2022 too if you sign someone better than Renfroe to play in the outfield.

[moonslav59]

It's about 2022 too if you sign someone better than Renfroe to play in the outfield.

 

So, we pay JBJ and the new guy to improve on Renfroe?

 

To me, this move (not future ones) is about the prospects, hence the future.

[Old Red]

It's not a 100% safe bet, but I think it's a pretty good and fair assumption to assume that JBJ is NOT REPLACING Renfroe in the field. That's the wrong way to look this trade. JBJ is going to get less playing time than Renfroe.

 

The Sox effectively took on a bad contract to buy some prospects and I hope they go out and sign someone to play LF (Schwarber, Bryant, Suzuki). If they do that, the outfield and lineup is actually better next year and the farm system is stronger. I don't love this move, but I like it if it's followed with another outfield signing.

 

So they are going to trade for someone, and pay them $10M, or so, and then go out, and sign someone else to play his position? I get that it’s only $3M, or so more than they would have payed Renfroe, but Renfroe would have been playing. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

[moonslav59]

I wonder exactly how much we are paying.

 

MLBTR...

 

The Red Sox are assuming a decent chunk of guaranteed money down the line

[mvp 78]

It's actually more than a year. He has a $12M option for 2023 with an $8M buy out!

 

That's great! We have more time to discuss trading JBJ!

[mvp 78]

It's not a 100% safe bet, but I think it's a pretty good and fair assumption to assume that JBJ is NOT REPLACING Renfroe in the field. That's the wrong way to look this trade. JBJ is going to get less playing time than Renfroe.

 

The Sox effectively took on a bad contract to buy some prospects and I hope they go out and sign someone to play LF (Schwarber, Bryant, Suzuki). If they do that, the outfield and lineup is actually better next year and the farm system is stronger. I don't love this move, but I like it if it's followed with another outfield signing.

 

I agree. There is a lot of talk in the media that another move is coming and that JBJ is a 4th OFer. He's an expensive OFer one at that, but if the Sox are unconcerned about the luxury tax then we shouldn't be either.

[notin]

That's great! We have more time to discuss trading JBJ!

 

Bradley is this year’s Ottavino. A questionable contract Bloom took on to get some prospects he values…

[mvp 78]

He also hit .814 at age 30 and will only be turning 32 by ST'ing.

 

His .497 OPS in 428 PAs in 2021 is amazingly bad. The 428 PAs is shocking.

 

He once had a slugging % of .498!

 

JBJ was always streaky and there is a chance that the slump doesn't go away at some point.

[Hugh2]

So they are going to trade for someone, and pay them $10M, or so, and then go out, and sign someone else to play his position? I get that it’s only $3M, or so more than they would have payed Renfroe, but Renfroe would have been playing. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

 

It does if you're signing someone like Suzuki.

[Old Red]

I agree. There is a lot of talk in the media that another move is coming and that JBJ is a 4th OFer. He's an expensive OFer one at that, but if the Sox are unconcerned about the luxury tax then we shouldn't be either.

 

If the Sox were so unconcerned about the luxury tax they would be signing better players than they have.

[Hugh2]

I agree. There is a lot of talk in the media that another move is coming and that JBJ is a 4th OFer. He's an expensive OFer one at that, but if the Sox are unconcerned about the luxury tax then we shouldn't be either.

 

Exactly, they're paying a hefty price for a 4th oufielder, but they got something in return for it and if they replace Renfroe with a better player the 26 man is better anyways. Aren't we always complaining about the Sox not spending money?

 

I mean I get it, people don't like the Sox spending money unless they're signing MVPs and Cy Youngs.

[mvp 78]

BTV:

Renfroe 1.6

 

Binelas 4.9 (approximates Winckowski value)

Hamilton 5.4 (in between Winckowski and Mata value)

JBJ -12.8

 

Moderate overpay

Although one side of this trade is giving up more than they should, there is still a reasonable probability it would be accepted if each team’s needs are met.

[mvp 78]

If the Sox were so unconcerned about the luxury tax they would be signing better players than they have.

 

Maybe they don't like those players?

[Old Red]

I agree. There is a lot of talk in the media that another move is coming and that JBJ is a 4th OFer. He's an expensive OFer one at that, but if the Sox are unconcerned about the luxury tax then we shouldn't be either.

 

How much of the talk in the media comes true? How much talk in the media was there about any of the moves the Red Sox have made so far. I don’t remember any JBJ talk.

[notin]

Maybe they don't like those players?

 

 

More likely they don’t like those players for the number of years it takes to sign them.

 

I’m sure they love to have Corey Seager next year. But maybe they’re not so high on the notion of having him until 2031…

[mvp 78]

More likely they don’t like those players for the number of years it takes to sign them.

 

I’m sure they love to have Corey Seager next year. But maybe they’re not so high on the notion of having him until 2031…

 

Yes. They like those players, but not for that length of time.

[mvp 78]

Where were all the Hunter Renfroe stans when he was OPSing 485 on 5/1 last year?

[notin]

I agree. There is a lot of talk in the media that another move is coming and that JBJ is a 4th OFer. He's an expensive OFer one at that, but if the Sox are unconcerned about the luxury tax then we shouldn't be either.

 

He’s not a fourth outfielder today. But there are several options left that could put him in that position…