Yankees 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Bellhorn04]

You still have Stanton, Judge, Andujar and whatever big bulky new injury-prone players Cashman adds.

 

My sense is you're trying to rain on Jax's parade.

[moonslav59]

My sense is you're trying to rain on Jax's parade.

 

I see him about to repeat the same evaluation of next year's Yankee team "on paper" and assume hardly anybody gets hurt.

 

No doubt, if the Yanks just had normal injuries, this year and in previous years, they'd have won a lot more. That's one reason why they always look so good on paper, but keep coming up short.

 

Why should that change, if they bring back the same injury-prone players or replace some with bulky players from the same mold?

 

The other reason they keep coming up short is that being from NY, they get a lot of attention, and maybe some of their players just aren't and never were as good as the hype made them out to be.

[bkzwhitestrican]

It was a disappointing season by our standards. But it's not like this was some s*** team. They underperformed and still won 92 games. Depending on what moves the team makes and progression/regression of players, this team could still come back next season and win 100 games. Or 80. Who knows. I'll probably be more inclined to speculate and dream on it in March.

[Thunder]

I see him about to repeat the same evaluation of next year's Yankee team "on paper" and assume hardly anybody gets hurt.

 

No doubt, if the Yanks just had normal injuries, this year and in previous years, they'd have won a lot more. That's one reason why they always look so good on paper, but keep coming up short.

 

Why should that change, if they bring back the same injury-prone players or replace some with bulky players from the same mold?

 

The other reason they keep coming up short is that being from NY, they get a lot of attention, and maybe some of their players just aren't and never were as good as the hype made them out to be.

 

Imagine how bad this team would have been if Stanton and Judge had missed significant time this year. They were both healthy the vast majority of the season, and carried the load offensively.

[moonslav59]

It was a disappointing season by our standards. But it's not like this was some s*** team. They underperformed and still won 92 games. Depending on what moves the team makes and progression/regression of players, this team could still come back next season and win 100 games. Or 80. Who knows. I'll probably be more inclined to speculate and dream on it in March.

 

No, the Yanks are far from being a s*** team, and I agree that your teams often look very good on paper, when you assume great or even normal health.

 

I could be wrong in assuming the excessive Yankee injuries should be expected and even counted on. Do you Yankee fans disagree with my position?

 

Here are the winning percentages of recent Yankee teams starting with 2021 and going backwards:

 

.568

.550

.636

.617

.562

.519

.537

.519

.525

 

Your pythW-L% was lower than the actual number in 6 of these 9 years, including 3 of the last 4 years.

 

While your teams have done well for many years, maybe they are not under performing as much as you think.

 

[moonslav59]

Imagine how bad this team would have been if Stanton and Judge had missed significant time this year. They were both healthy the vast majority of the season, and carried the load offensively.

 

Yes, they did, and who here thinks they will combine for 1,212 or more PAs in 2022?

 

While the 33 year old LeMahieu might have been playing hurt all year, he still got 679 PAs. How many can we expect, next year?

[jacksonianmarch]

I found this piece to be rather interesting:

 

Former MLB exec: Gerrit Cole isn’t an ace without sticky stuff so Yankees are working on solution with Commissioner’s Office

 

Former Miami Marlins president David Samson joined The Rich Eisen Show on Thursday, and laid into Cole, who didn’t make it out of the third inning in New York’s 6-2 loss in the American League Wild Card Game.

 

“Gerrit Cole has a great contract on paper. He makes a ton of money. But at the end of the day, without foreign substances, he’s far less effective. He’s not really an ace.”

 

That led to this exchange between Eisen and Samson:

 

Eisen: “So are you saying Gerrit Cole is not going to be the same pitcher because the sticky stuff is no longer allowed? Is that truly what you are saying?”

 

Samson: “I’m saying that the New York Yankees are working very closely with the Commissioner’s Office and they are trying to develop a foreign substance that is agreed to by the union as part of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement and they are testing that substance by calling up Gerrit Cole and saying, ‘Hey, do you like this one? Do you like that one?’ Gotta do something.”

 

I don't know how much truth there is to that, but I hope the Commissioner's Office is not catering to Gerrit Cole and the Yankees.

 

Two thoughts. 1. That's garbage. Once he adjusted to the no-spider tack, he had a 7-8 start run where he was unhittable. Then he hurt his hammy. Prior to the start where he hurt his hamstring, he had an 8 start run where he pitched to: 50IP 13ER 37H 12BB 80K. Then he hurt his hamstring and was absolute garbage thereafter. 2. MLB is going to release a pre-tacked ball for 22.

[bkzwhitestrican]

No, the Yanks are far from being a s*** team, and I agree that your teams often look very good on paper, when you assume great or even normal health.

 

I could be wrong in assuming the excessive Yankee injuries should be expected and even counted on. Do you Yankee fans disagree with my position?

 

Here are the winning percentages of recent Yankee teams starting with 2021 and going backwards:

 

.568

.550

.636

.617

.562

.519

.537

.519

.525

 

Your pythW-L% was lower than the actual number in 6 of these 9 years, including 3 of the last 4 years.

 

While your teams have done well for many years, maybe they are not under performing as much as you think.

 

 

I don't think injuries affected this year's team as much as prior years. Judge/Stanton/Cole were mostly healthy all year. We did have a lot of supporting players miss time but I think the underperformance of healthy players was the biggest issue (primarily DJ, Torres, Frazier, Gio).

 

And Pyth record is a pointless stat so I don't think it proves anything. A team can win a single game by 20 runs and then lose the next 20 by 1 run, and Pyth record would suggest that they should be .500. The Yankees have had a highly ranked bullpen over the last decade and have won more close games because of it, so it would make sense for their expected Win% to be lower.

[moonslav59]

I don't think injuries affected this year's team as much as prior years. Judge/Stanton/Cole were mostly healthy all year. We did have a lot of supporting players miss time but I think the underperformance of healthy players was the biggest issue (primarily DJ, Torres, Frazier, Gio).

 

And Pyth record is a pointless stat so I don't think it proves anything. A team can win a single game by 20 runs and then lose the next 20 by 1 run, and Pyth record would suggest that they should be .500. The Yankees have had a highly ranked bullpen over the last decade and have won more close games because of it, so it would make sense for their expected Win% to be lower.

 

I just mentioned the pyth record as one piece of evidence that shows the Yanks have not really had non injury bad luck over most of the years.

 

To me, the main reason you guys never seem to be "as good as on paper" is the injuries, and it is something that happens more often than most teams, but not out of bad luck.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think injuries affected this year's team as much as prior years. Judge/Stanton/Cole were mostly healthy all year. We did have a lot of supporting players miss time but I think the underperformance of healthy players was the biggest issue (primarily DJ, Torres, Frazier, Gio).

 

And Pyth record is a pointless stat so I don't think it proves anything. A team can win a single game by 20 runs and then lose the next 20 by 1 run, and Pyth record would suggest that they should be .500. The Yankees have had a highly ranked bullpen over the last decade and have won more close games because of it, so it would make sense for their expected Win% to be lower.

 

Voit, Frazier, and Hicks were major parts of the off season plan for the 21 Yanks and all three were on the shelf by May 1. I think you’re not remembering how dominant Voit was last year and how high his expectations were.

[moonslav59]

Voit, Frazier, and Hicks were major parts of the off season plan for the 21 Yanks and all three were on the shelf by May 1. I think you’re not remembering how dominant Voit was last year and how high his expectations were.

 

Now, after just one season, riddled by injuries, even you are done with Voit.

[jacksonianmarch]

Now, after just one season, riddled by injuries, even you are done with Voit.

 

It’s not the “riddled with injuries” I’m worried about. It is the type of injury he has. He had a meniscectomy followed by a “bone bruise” from normal wear and tear then he hurt himself again running down the baseline. When you take a piece of the meniscus off, you accelerate arthritis. My concern is the next procedure we hear about is micro fracture surgery and the success of that is terrible

[jacksonianmarch]

So Thames and Pillitere are gone. That shocks no one. Blake stays, that also shocks no one. Now go get me a manager who doesn’t suck at picking his relievers and who holds his players accountable.

[Bellhorn04]

So Thames and Pillitere are gone. That shocks no one. Blake stays, that also shocks no one. Now go get me a manager who doesn’t suck at picking his relievers and who holds his players accountable.

 

I see Aaron back on a new 3 year deal. Cash is going to show the world he knows how to pick a manager.

[bkzwhitestrican]

I see Aaron back on a new 3 year deal. Cash is going to show the world he knows how to pick a manager.

 

That didn't happen (at least not yet). Don't be scaring us like that.

[jacksonianmarch]

That didn't happen (at least not yet). Don't be scaring us like that.

 

Nightmares

[jacksonianmarch]

Here is the thing about the Yanks. Prior to 2021, we knew the Rays were good but had just offloaded two of their prime pitchers. Nobody thought they would be this good, this fast. They are. We all thought the Jays would be on the rise. The meteoric rise in their win total late points towards a dominant team for 2022. The Red Sox played way over their skis all year and Bloom is a genius. The sox recovered faster than expected and will be in the mix next year. Yanks cannot just add one guy and expect to take the East. They need to move around their assets to create a dominant club or else they may end up 4th in the division

[moonslav59]

Here is the thing about the Yanks. Prior to 2021, we knew the Rays were good but had just offloaded two of their prime pitchers. Nobody thought they would be this good, this fast. They are. We all thought the Jays would be on the rise. The meteoric rise in their win total late points towards a dominant team for 2022. The Red Sox played way over their skis all year and Bloom is a genius. The sox recovered faster than expected and will be in the mix next year. Yanks cannot just add one guy and expect to take the East. They need to move around their assets to create a dominant club or else they may end up 4th in the division

 

Can you stop with the whole Sox played over their heads? They didn't. More players did the same or worse than better than their career or previous 2 year numbers, despite most being pre-prime or prime.

 

The Jays have a couple key FAs they might lose.

 

The Rays should never be taken lightly. This is not something new for them.

 

The Yanks are the team on the decline, and if you keep Cashman and Boone, you'd better go on a signing binge, this winter, of you'll be on the outside looking in.

[jacksonianmarch]

Can you stop with the whole Sox played over their heads? They didn't. More players did the same or worse than better than their career or previous 2 year numbers, despite most being pre-prime or prime.

 

The Jays have a couple key FAs they might lose.

 

The Rays should never be taken lightly. This is not something new for them.

 

The Yanks are the team on the decline, and if you keep Cashman and Boone, you'd better go on a signing binge, this winter, of you'll be on the outside looking in.

 

Renfroe career year.

Dalbec was Babe Ruth the second half.

JD recovered from being a minus player to be very effective.

Devers and Xander were prime.

Kike had a career year.

Vaz was slightly down, but not far from career norms

Arroyo has always sucked

Pivetta had a career year.

Eovaldi had a career year.

ERod was down

Sale returned and was solid in the regular season

Schwarber came on and became Babe Ruth

 

I am absolutely right in my assessment that the sox have benefited from good health (minus covid, but everyone had a covid outbreak to an extent) and prime or better performance from nearly the whole team. Expecting the same to happen next year will return you to where the experts thought you'd be.

 

You are right, though, that the Yanks are gonna decline if they stand pat and cannot afford that

[moonslav59]

Renfroe career year.

Dalbec was Babe Ruth the second half.

JD recovered from being a minus player to be very effective.

Devers and Xander were prime.

Kike had a career year.

Vaz was slightly down, but not far from career norms

Arroyo has always sucked

Pivetta had a career year.

Eovaldi had a career year.

ERod was down

Sale returned and was solid in the regular season

Schwarber came on and became Babe Ruth

 

I am absolutely right in my assessment that the sox have benefited from good health (minus covid, but everyone had a covid outbreak to an extent) and prime or better performance from nearly the whole team. Expecting the same to happen next year will return you to where the experts thought you'd be.

 

You are right, though, that the Yanks are gonna decline if they stand pat and cannot afford that

 

You left off all the guys who did worse and overstated the ones who did well.

 

You change the criteria from career best to whatever suits your point.

 

Dalbec sucked for 4 months, but you only rate 2 months. Whynnot mention Barnes'last 2 months? Ottavino's?

 

You keep saying JD had a bad year. 2020 was not a year. It was two months.

 

Bogey and Devers are nearing or in peak prime and could easily have been expected to do better and much better than they did.

 

Renfroe, Kike, Eovaldi and Pivetta had career year.

 

Vaz was 150 points lower than 2019-2020 and 50 below career- admit that is not "slightyly down."

 

Marwin was 9th in team PAs- you don't even talk about him being hundred of points below his career best.

 

Verdugo was way down from expectations.

 

ERod was supposed to be our #1 or 2 and sucked.

 

We counted on Richards like you counted on Kluber.

 

Cordero, Santana, Duran & Chavis had double the PAs as Schwarber, Iggy & Shaw. Not a mention by you. They all sucked. Way below expectations, career norms or whatever you want to pick and choose.

More players did the same or worse than expectations than the same or better.

 

Going by most PAs

 

Our top 3 combined (Devers, JD and Verdugo) did less than expected, and stop with this JD was expected to repeat 2020 crap.

 

Kike and Renfroe were 5 & 6 and had career years, but both had similar years in the past- just not for 550+ PAs.

 

Our 7-8-9-10-11 PA leaders combined did worse (Vaz, Dalbec, Marwin, Arroyo, Marwin, Plawecki).

 

#12 Schwarber did great, but not much better than what he was doing when we got him.

 

#13-17 all way worse (Cordero, Santana, Duran, Chavis & Arauz)

 

Iggy & Shaw had just 112 PAs combined.

 

Pitching: Just Eovaldi and Pivetta had career years.

 

Whitlock and Houck had unknown expectations but did well. Houck only had 69 IP, when we expected 130-150.

 

Nobody else did anything that says "wow."

 

The Sox were on the rise before this year, and even if you discount this year as an overplay, we are still on the rise.

 

I'm not sure you can say that about the Yanks, anymore. You guys traded a lot of your farm depth, and maybe Judge and Stanton will not be so healthy, next year.

 

 

 

You rant about Schwarber

[moonslav59]

OPS Player PAs

.890 Devers 664 (.847 career, .884 last 2 yrs, .916 in 2019)

.867 JD Martinez 634 (.881 career, .870 last 2 yrs, 2 seasons over 1.000 in ’17 & ’18)

.863 Bogaerts 603 (.812 career, .921 last 2, 3 seasons higher last 3 seasons)

.777 Verdugo 604 (.791 career, .827 last 2, 2 seasons higher)

.786 Kike 585 (.748 career, .707 last 2, 2 seasons higher ’18 & ’15)

.816 Renfroe 572 (.786 career, .749 last 2, was at .805 in ’18)

.659 Vazquez 498 (.692 career, .798 last 2, 3 seasons higher)

.792 Dalbec 453 (.819 career, .959 in 2020)

 

.567 Marwin 271 (.717 career, .698 last 2, every season better ‘14>’20)

 

.769 Arroyo 181 (.690 career, .710 last 2, no years better)

.737 Plawecki 173 (.667 career, .707 last 2, 2 seasons better ‘20 & ’17)

.957 Schwarber 168 (.836 career, .825 last 2, no seasons better)

.497 Cordero 136 (.663 career, ,773 last 2, all 4 seasons better)

.597 Santana 127 (.709 career, .821 last 2, 5 seasons better)

.578 Chavis 112 (.714 career, .728 last 2, ,857 in PIT after trade)

 

.643 Arauz 75 (.644 career, .644 last year, 1 better)

.915 Iggy 64 (.696 career, .775 last 2, .956 in 2020 was better)

.843 Shaw 48 (.762 career, .619 last 2, 1 season better & .808 ‘15>’18)

[jacksonianmarch]

Boone back on 3 year deal. f***!!

[Bellhorn04]

Boone back on 3 year deal. f***!!

 

Ha, I called it. Good times.

[bkzwhitestrican]

f***

[mvp 78]

@Yankees

The New York Yankees announced today that they have re-signed Manager Aaron Boone to a three-year contract through the 2024 season with a club option for 2025.

 

Good move IMO!

[a700hitter]

It looks like my NY sources are still solid.

[moonslav59]

This proves the problem is Cashman.

[mvp 78]

This proves the problem is Cashman.

 

The problem is the owners for not getting rid of Cashman.

[moonslav59]

The problem is the owners for not getting rid of Cashman.

 

True, and as long as Cashman is at the helm, the Sox need not worry, too much, no matter how much they spend and spend.

[Bellhorn04]

The Yankees are surely due for a spending spree.