9/28 at O's

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

A better description in lieu of negativity, might be what difference does it make to get the WC and even win it because this team's talent does not look consistent enough to win the ALDS nor ALDS, much less the WS. So why be too concerned ?

 

Ya, but winning a WC game in Yankee Stadium -- even if the Rays then won the ALDS in a sweep -- would make the season, and give the offseason momentum until Spring Training 2022...

[vegasbob]

Given what was achieved in 2021, with more excitement to follow this week, there is no doubt that Henry, Bloom and Cora have a great opportunity to upgrade 4 or 5 positions on the 26 man roster and compete very strongly against the Rays, Jays and Nays. For one, I do not see NYY getting better in 2022. The Rays can't or won't support paying their better guys, preferring to move them on for another junior influx. For all their young big boppers, the Jays are still trailing the Sox for the #2WC, That tells you something.

 

Let's see how this week and any following play out, then consider who performed when they were needed and who did not.

[moonslav59]

I would never advocate "lose and get it over with" . The point of the game is to win, which sometimes takes extraordinary efforts by the full team. I think during the post A-S part of the season , now concluding, there have been some opportunities to put the race away, and the team failed to do so. The recent 7 game win streak raised hopes and erased doubts once again only rto fall back in the ditch over the last 4. Now they truly need to win all 5 to manage their own fate, which will be a one gamer .

 

The final 12 consecutive outs on a low number of pitches by the O's really set off some "negativity" as you say because MLB level , well paid, proven professionals could not raise their game against a inferior opponent. Did they quit, likely not, just couldn't get the half bunt, bloopers that seem to beat us.

 

A better description in lieu of negativity, might be what difference does it make to get the WC and even win it because this team's talent does not look consistent enough to win the ALDS nor ALDS, much less the WS. So why be too concerned ?

 

I certainly don't predict us winning more than a round, at most, if we make the playoffs, but it is nice to make it.

 

Baseball is not an easy game to play. It's easy to read into results what you want, and I'm as guilty as anyone for doing that.

 

We should beat the O's 60-70% of the time. While those odds look very nice, losing any one game is not some freaky event that has to mean we quit or didn't seem to have any "fight" in us.

 

I'm sure that loss hurt every player on the team, and maybe they are trying too hard. Maybe not.

 

I just know this team has shown a lot of grit over the whole season- even in the last 10 days, 20 days, 40 days and 60 days. We've looked defeated several times, only to bounce back and bounce back hard.

 

I think we have one more in us.

 

The negative fans can bash me all winter wrong, if we botch this, but I still believe this team will make the playoffs.

 

The one game WC game is a toss-up.

 

The first round is likely going to be an exit, but stranger things have happened.

 

 

 

[vegasbob]

The only part I disagree with is that if a bullpen is toast from overuse -- that results in actual sore elbows, rotator cuffs or pectorals (who here really knows what ails Barnes) -- then bad recent effects are not random. In baseball lore, a good performance from a starting pitcher can be a famous or infamous momentum shifter, partially from preventing tired relievers from returning to the mound. At least that's my best hope for winning this series, via efforts from Eovaldi and Pivetta..

 

I know what ails Barnes, and Cora echoed it in so many words in a recent quote. Barnes lacks confidence in his innate abilities , so becomes anxiety ridden and very inconsistent. Pre A-S break, you did not see that in Barnes and it looked like he had taken the cure, believed in his stuff and outperformed . Barnes, like a few others who have passed through Fenway is a head case . Does Buchholz or Bard ring a bell?

[Old Red]

I'm not clinging to either number. I just brought up the 10-9 to make a point.

 

Do I think some teams just seem to have another team's number? Of course. Does recency have some affect? Sure, maybe a little, but really, you are saying it is virtually all that matters, and that is just plain wrong.

 

I have agreed over and over, the Sox at this moment suck, but my point is that has changed all year long and the odds are, it will again, soon.

 

Just look at the game logs for the yanks, Sox and Jays. They are littered with unexplained reversals of fortune and trends.

 

Of course we aren't the same team as earlier, this year. We added Sale, Schwarber, Iggy, Shaw and a FT Houck. All that hasn't seemed to help improve our record, but even over the last month or two, this team has shown great highs and horrific lows- as have the Yanks and Jays.

 

Can we continue to suck for he next 5 games? Of course we can. Can we turn things around, like we have dozens of times this year and even recently? Of course we can. You seem to act like we are predetermined to fail based on some silly and arbitrary date where we became a different team.

 

Just since mid August, this team has shown the guts to turn things upright after looking doomed.

 

We lost 3 straight to the yanks in mid August then won 6 of the next 8.

Then, we lost 3 straight, including the first 2 to TBR. Immediately, we won the next 2 vs TBR and 2 more for 4 straight wins. Feeling energized, we then flopped again:

We lost 3 straight and 6 of 8, before winning 2 at SEA (not an easy thing to do) on our way to 7 straight wins. Yes, less than a week ago, we had won 7 straight, and now it is impossible to imagine we turn it around, one more time.

 

We've seen 7 flips in about 5 weeks, but one more is impossible to even fathom, to you.

 

Again, I'm not predicting we see one more flip, but I see plenty of reason to hope for one more.

 

I can't see why others are 100% convinced we are doomed.

 

I won't get into other teams, because that upsets you, but they have flipped and flopped about as much as we have over the past 2 months. The Yanks had the biggest flop of any of us- not too long ago, but you are convince they cannot do that again.

 

I'm sure you'll be thrilled to "I told you so," if we continue imploding. It very well might happen.

 

I still like our chances. We have the lead and play weaker teams. That matters as much as "head-to-head" vs a team we don't even play in the next 5 games.

 

 

 

Sorry, but that just sounds absurd to me to completely write off any chance we win 4 or 5 out of the next 5.

 

 

 

You say at the moment the Sox suck, but that has changed all year long, but like I keep saying the Sox are not the same team. They are all these additions, and the record didn’t improve. Earlier in the season they were in first place, and didn’t need those additions, because they were a better team, but you don’t understand that, and keep hoping they will turn it around is all you got at this point, and you can point to flips, and flops all you want, because once again that’s all you got, and no I won’t be thrilled if the Sox implodes, but I just don’t like the way things are going, and have the hope that you do, and I have not written any chances to win 5 in a row, or 6 in a row.

[vegasbob]

I certainly don't predict us winning more than a round, at most, if we make the playoffs, but it is nice to make it.

 

Baseball is not an easy game to play. It's easy to read into results what you want, and I'm as guilty as anyone for doing that.

 

We should beat the O's 60-70% of the time. While those odds look very nice, losing any one game is not some freaky event that has to mean we quit or didn't seem to have any "fight" in us.

 

I'm sure that loss hurt every player on the team, and maybe they are trying too hard. Maybe not.

 

I just know this team has shown a lot of grit over the whole season- even in the last 10 days, 20 days, 40 days and 60 days. We've looked defeated several times, only to bounce back and bounce back hard.

 

I think we have one more in us.

 

The negative fans can bash me all winter wrong, if we botch this, but I still believe this team will make the playoffs.

 

The one game WC game is a toss-up.

 

The first round is likely going to be an exit, but stranger things have happened.

 

 

 

 

I will join you in sincerely wanting The Red Sox to reach the playoff game just to see what happens, and to show the MLB world that despite a hectic finish, the Red Sox still matter and are still playing , while 20 other teams are packing up to go home. All this achieved by a team in a tough division , who had no expectations coming out of ST, confirmed by the first 3 games with the dreadful Orioles, and proceeded with a patchwork lineup, and no major impactful additions at the trade deadline.

 

To reach that WC game and more, I would request that we observe smarter, more talented play and AB's reflective of the player's actual abilities, not the failure inducing performances of the recent games.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I know what ails Barnes, and Cora echoed it in so many words in a recent quote. Barnes lacks confidence in his innate abilities , so becomes anxiety ridden and very inconsistent. Pre A-S break, you did not see that in Barnes and it looked like he had taken the cure, believed in his stuff and outperformed . Barnes, like a few others who have passed through Fenway is a head case . Does Buchholz or Bard ring a bell?

 

Over the decades I've become convinced that professional athletes, especially in such a specialized sport like hardball, rarely forget how to hit a fastball, catch a pop-up or throw a strike. It's almost always some physical malfunction (often translated as age) altering performance.

 

ps. a lot of injuries are undisclosed to the public, mainly to keep info from opponents

Edited September 29, 2021 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[dgalehouse]

Ya, but winning a WC game in Yankee Stadium -- even if the Rays then won the ALDS in a sweep -- would make the season, and give the offseason momentum until Spring Training 2022...

 

You have to be in it to win it. When you get to the post season , anything is possible. Any of the post season teams can get hot ( momentum?) . Not every team has an equal chance , but they all have a decent shot . That would include the Red Sox.

[Maxbialystock]

I certainly don't predict us winning more than a round, at most, if we make the playoffs, but it is nice to make it.

 

Baseball is not an easy game to play. It's easy to read into results what you want, and I'm as guilty as anyone for doing that.

 

We should beat the O's 60-70% of the time. While those odds look very nice, losing any one game is not some freaky event that has to mean we quit or didn't seem to have any "fight" in us.

 

I'm sure that loss hurt every player on the team, and maybe they are trying too hard. Maybe not.

 

I just know this team has shown a lot of grit over the whole season- even in the last 10 days, 20 days, 40 days and 60 days. We've looked defeated several times, only to bounce back and bounce back hard.

 

I think we have one more in us.

 

The negative fans can bash me all winter wrong, if we botch this, but I still believe this team will make the playoffs.

 

The one game WC game is a toss-up.

 

The first round is likely going to be an exit, but stranger things have happened.

 

 

 

 

I agree the season to date has been better than expected during spring training. I don't think the Sox have quit in any way shape or form.

 

I do believe, however, that they are no longer the team that led the AL East and the AL back in July (and for most of April-June).

 

And the reason for that is pitching, pure and simple. Other teams have it, but the Sox don't. That means the Sox have trouble hitting other teams pitching, but other teams don't have a problem scoring off the Sox pitching--and, secondarily, off the Sox defense.

 

In the past, the fix was simply to go out and buy some pitchers, often at any cost. Maybe the Sox need to examine their entire system for evaluating, developing, and acquiring pitchers.

[notin]

Ya, but winning a WC game in Yankee Stadium -- even if the Rays then won the ALDS in a sweep -- would make the season, and give the offseason momentum until Spring Training 2022...

 

 

Is there such a thing as “off-season momentum”?

[notin]

I agree the season to date has been better than expected during spring training. I don't think the Sox have quit in any way shape or form.

 

I do believe, however, that they are no longer the team that led the AL East and the AL back in July (and for most of April-June).

 

And the reason for that is pitching, pure and simple. Other teams have it, but the Sox don't. That means the Sox have trouble hitting other teams pitching, but other teams don't have a problem scoring off the Sox pitching--and, secondarily, off the Sox defense.

 

In the past, the fix was simply to go out and buy some pitchers, often at any cost. Maybe the Sox need to examine their entire system for evaluating, developing, and acquiring pitchers.

 

Or they could just hire the guy who wrote the book on that very subject for Tampa…

[moonslav59]

You say at the moment the Sox suck, but that has changed all year long, but like I keep saying the Sox are not the same team. They are all these additions, and the record didn’t improve. Earlier in the season they were in first place, and didn’t need those additions, because they were a better team, but you don’t understand that, and keep hoping they will turn it around is all you got at this point, and you can point to flips, and flops all you want, because once again that’s all you got, and no I won’t be thrilled if the Sox implodes, but I just don’t like the way things are going, and have the hope that you do, and I have not written any chances to win 5 in a row, or 6 in a row.

 

I don't like the way things have been going either.

 

I just don't think it has much to do with tonight or the next 5 days.

[moonslav59]

I agree the season to date has been better than expected during spring training. I don't think the Sox have quit in any way shape or form.

 

I do believe, however, that they are no longer the team that led the AL East and the AL back in July (and for most of April-June).

 

And the reason for that is pitching, pure and simple. Other teams have it, but the Sox don't. That means the Sox have trouble hitting other teams pitching, but other teams don't have a problem scoring off the Sox pitching--and, secondarily, off the Sox defense.

 

In the past, the fix was simply to go out and buy some pitchers, often at any cost. Maybe the Sox need to examine their entire system for evaluating, developing, and acquiring pitchers.

 

One encouraging thing about this season is that 3 of our top 4 pitchers by OPS gainst are all pre-arb:

 

Whitlock

 

Houck

 

DHern

 

(the other is Barnes)

[Old Red]

I don't like the way things have been going either.

 

I just don't think it has much to do with tonight or the next 5 days.

 

A lot more pressure playing in these games now compared to even a few weeks ago, and that is a big difference, so flipping back to playing better all of a sudden isn’t as easy as it was before.

[moonslav59]

A lot more pressure playing in these games now compared to even a few weeks ago, and that is a big difference, so flipping back to playing better all of a sudden isn’t as easy as it was before.

 

Maybe, but playing the O's and Nats seem easier than the bounce backs we had over the last month:

 

2 @SEA+2 v NYM as part of the 7 game streak

1 v TBR and 1 @ CWS as part of the 2 out of 3 run

2 @TBR and 2 v CLE in the 4 in a row streak

1 v MIN and 2 @ CLE in the 3 in a row streak.

 

Plus, talk about not being the same team as the first half, we don't face Means in this series with Bal, and the Nats traded away like 4-5 of their best players.

 

We've had pressure on us, this year, a few times. This is certainly the most, but we've done well under pressure before.

[Maxbialystock]

Or they could just hire the guy who wrote the book on that very subject for Tampa…

 

You read my mind.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Is there such a thing as “off-season momentum”?

 

As much as a GM who is either clutch or chokes when it comes to making trades, signing free agents or drafting Rule V guys... (see ts-ref's "late-winter and close dollars" category).

[harmony]

Maybe, but playing the O's and Nats seem easier than the bounce backs we had over the last month:

 

2 @SEA+2 v NYM as part of the 7 game streak

1 v TBR and 1 @ CWS as part of the 2 out of 3 run

2 @TBR and 2 v CLE in the 4 in a row streak

1 v MIN and 2 @ CLE in the 3 in a row streak.

 

Plus, talk about not being the same team as the first half, we don't face Means in this series with Bal, and the Nats traded away like 4-5 of their best players.

 

We've had pressure on us, this year, a few times. This is certainly the most, but we've done well under pressure before.

Late last night I kept thinking about being in the lower level down the rightfield line at T-Mobile Park earlier this month in Seattle for the rubber game of the three-game series (and season series) with the Red Sox. Tied game, two outs in the bottom of the ninth, Jake Bauers at first base, and Jarred Kelenic hits a screamer that lands just foul down the rightfield line. Had the ball landed fair, the speedy Bauers would have been off running for the potential game-winning run, testing the powerful arm of Hunter Renfroe. Instead, the Red Sox won in an extra inning.

 

Every team has its "what ifs" each season.

 

Let's enjoy the final days of the 2021 regular season.

Edited September 29, 2021 by harmony

[moonslav59]

Late last night I kept thinking about being in the lower level down the rightfield line at T-Mobile Park earlier this month in Seattle for the rubber game of the three-game series (and season series) with the Red Sox. Tied game, two outs in the bottom of the ninth, Jake Bauers at first base, and Jarred Kelenic hits a screamer that lands just foul down the rightfield line. If the ball had landed fair, the speedy Bauers would have been off running for the potential game-winning run, testing the powerful arm of Hunter Renfroe. Instead, the Red Sox won in an extra innings.

 

Every team has its "what ifs" each season.

 

Let's enjoy the final days of the 2021 regular season.

 

Many games have several what if moments that might have flipped the result.

 

I'm sure the M's have had a few, but with their significant negative run differential, my guess is they have won a bunch more of those what ifs than they lost.

 

The Jays have likely lost more than their fair share.

[Old Red]

Maybe, but playing the O's and Nats seem easier than the bounce backs we had over the last month:

 

2 @SEA+2 v NYM as part of the 7 game streak

1 v TBR and 1 @ CWS as part of the 2 out of 3 run

2 @TBR and 2 v CLE in the 4 in a row streak

1 v MIN and 2 @ CLE in the 3 in a row streak.

 

Plus, talk about not being the same team as the first half, we don't face Means in this series with Bal, and the Nats traded away like 4-5 of their best players.

 

We've had pressure on us, this year, a few times. This is certainly the most, but we've done well under pressure before.

 

When was there pressure on the Sox earlier this season, and that they played well under that pressure? The first 16 games against the Yankees were nothing like the last 3 games played last weekend. That was playoff atmosphere, and a lot different from the earlier games, and, because they lost all 3, it has made the next 5 with another lost last night all the more important, and now under more pressure than they have faced all year. Nothing to compare to earlier in the season.

[dgalehouse]

Late last night I kept thinking about being in the lower level down the rightfield line at T-Mobile Park earlier this month in Seattle for the rubber game of the three-game series (and season series) with the Red Sox. Tied game, two outs in the bottom of the ninth, Jake Bauers at first base, and Jarred Kelenic hits a screamer that lands just foul down the rightfield line. Had the ball landed fair, the speedy Bauers would have been off running for the potential game-winning run, testing the powerful arm of Hunter Renfroe. Instead, the Red Sox won in an extra inning.

 

Every team has its "what ifs" each season.

 

Let's enjoy the final days of the 2021 regular season.

 

Every team is sometimes victim to the " game of inches" situation. Every team is sometimes hurt by the ump's calls or non calls. But most fans only complain about it when it happens to their team. That's just the way we are.

[moonslav59]

When was there pressure on the Sox earlier this season, and that they played well under that pressure? The first 16 games against the Yankees were nothing like the last 3 games played last weekend. That was playoff atmosphere, and a lot different from the earlier games, and, because they lost all 3, it has made the next 5 with another lost last night all the more important, and now under more pressure than they have faced all year. Nothing to compare to earlier in the season.

 

These games listed are from the last month.

[Old Red]

These games listed are from the last month.

 

You are saying that those games listed were pressure packed games like this last Yankee series? Wow! And none of those games you listed will be no comparison to the games that is left to play.

[moonslav59]

You are saying that those games listed were pressure packed games like this last Yankee series? Wow! And none of those games you listed will be no comparison to the games that is left to play.

 

Where did I ever say those games were equally pressure packed.

 

Some were certainly very pressure-packed, and we won.

 

If we win tonight, does the recen y bias project 4 more in a row?

[Maxbialystock]

When was there pressure on the Sox earlier this season, and that they played well under that pressure? The first 16 games against the Yankees were nothing like the last 3 games played last weekend. That was playoff atmosphere, and a lot different from the earlier games, and, because they lost all 3, it has made the next 5 with another lost last night all the more important, and now under more pressure than they have faced all year. Nothing to compare to earlier in the season.

 

Agree.

[Maxbialystock]

Where did I ever say those games were equally pressure packed.

 

Some were certainly very pressure-packed, and we won.

 

If we win tonight, does the recen y bias project 4 more in a row?

 

I think it is beyond question the Sox are playing tight. Forget recency. They are scared, especially the bullpen, but I suspect the defense as well.

[Old Red]

Where did I ever say those games were equally pressure packed.

 

Some were certainly very pressure-packed, and we won.

 

If we win tonight, does the recen y bias project 4 more in a row?

 

They will win tonight, because EO will have a good bounce back game, and nothing else.

[Maxbialystock]

They will win tonight, because EO will have a good bounce back game, and nothing else.

 

For one thing, Plawecki is catching.

[moonslav59]

I think it is beyond question the Sox are playing tight. Forget recency. They are scared, especially the bullpen, but I suspect the defense as well.

 

It looks that way, and the O’s have no reason to be “tight.”

 

I happen to think trends can change on a dime and expect it to happen, soon.

 

I’ve been wrong before, but I’m sticking with the ship- sink or float.

[moonslav59]

They will win tonight, because EO will have a good bounce back game, and nothing else.

 

Is Eovaldi a Sox player?