just wondering

[cp176]

So ok - who has the guts here to admit that in fact they might have been wrong with respect to the extensions of both Eovaldi and Sale? Not only are they outstanding players, they have a fierce desire to win plus they appear to be pretty loyal.

[moonslav59]

I loved the Sale extension and still do. Missing a year plus hurt, but I still love having him.

 

I thought the Eovaldi signing was too much and too long, but almost all deals for meaningful players are high. Overall, I did not like the deal. The first 2 years of the 4 were nothing all that special.

 

He’s earned his pay and then some, this year.

 

To me, how he does in the post season and 2022 with tilt the balance one way or the other.

[cp176]

I loved the Sale extension and still do. Missing a year plus hurt, but I still love having him.

 

I thought the Eovaldi signing was too much and too long, but almost all deals for meaningful players are high. Overall, I did not like the deal. The first 2 years of the 4 were nothing all that special.

 

He’s earned his pay and then some, this year.

 

To me, how he does in the post season and 2022 with tilt the balance one way or the other.

 

Thanks for responding. Both of these men represent the type of player that I think good teams need. it certainly helps when they are healthy and can do their job. Their attitudes and work ethic are worth a great deal of money.

[moonslav59]

Thanks for responding. Both of these men represent the type of player that I think good teams need. it certainly helps when they are healthy and can do their job. Their attitudes and work ethic are worth a great deal of money.

 

No doubt. Their intensity and focus affect the whole team. We’d have no hope without these two.

[Bellhorn04]

Eovaldi is pitching up to his potential this year.

 

It was a very defensible signing by Dombrowski. $68 mill was a lot for a guy with Eovaldi's injury history, but he's got elite stuff and is a great competitor.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought the Eovaldi signing was too much and too long, but almost all deals for meaningful players are high. Overall, I did not like the deal. The first 2 years of the 4 were nothing all that special.

 

What was your problem with his 2020 part season?

[mvp 78]

Sale has a 426 FIP and is getting hit around by RHB. I don't think we can say his extension was a good idea just yet.

 

Eovaldi has been great this year, there's no denying it. However, the immediate results after the extension were not good (-.3 fWAR in 2019). Can you expect a 31 year old having a career year to repeat this performance?

[Bellhorn04]

Sale has a 426 FIP and is getting hit around by RHB. I don't think we can say his extension was a good idea just yet.

 

Eovaldi has been great this year, there's no denying it. However, the immediate results after the extension were not good (-.3 fWAR in 2019). Can you expect a 31 year old having a career year to repeat this performance?

 

It's all about his health. He started being a better pitcher in 2018. The jump in his K/BB ratio doesn't lie.

[mvp 78]

It's all about his health. He started being a better pitcher in 2018. The jump in his K/BB ratio doesn't lie.

 

I'm putting you in the "thinks Eovaldi can continue having career years" camp.

[moonslav59]

What was your problem with his 2020 part season?

 

I didn't say I had any problem with 2020- just that it was nothing special. It was only a 9 game sample, and he did pretty good. I guess one could say it was a little "special."

[Bellhorn04]

I'm putting you in the "thinks Eovaldi can continue having career years" camp.

 

There's a good chance that 2021 is his career year. I'd project him for a 3-3.5 WIN season in 2022.

[Bellhorn04]

I didn't say I had any problem with 2020- just that it was nothing special. It was only a 9 game sample, and he did pretty good. I guess one could say it was a little "special."

 

It was a small sample but a decent sample. 2020 of course was a weird year all around. His pro-rated salary was a little over 6 million.

 

Bottom line, he's had one bad season, 2019, on this contract.

[mvp 78]

There's a good chance that 2021 is his career year. I'd project him for a 3-3.5 WIN season in 2022.

 

If he has a 3.5 fWAR season consistently, he's a steal. That injury concern still plays into his future value IMO.

[mvp 78]

And since his contract is up after next year, even if he tanks, it doesn't kill the payroll.

 

However, I STILL WOULD HAVE RATHER NOT PAID SALE AND EOVALDI IF I COULD HAVE KEPT BETTS.

[Bellhorn04]

And since his contract is up after next year, even if he tanks, it doesn't kill the payroll.

 

However, I STILL WOULD HAVE RATHER NOT PAID SALE AND EOVALDI IF I COULD HAVE KEPT BETTS.

 

IMHO Sale and Eovaldi were never the issue with keeping Betts. Their deals weren't signed until they gave up on Betts.

 

The more I think of it, the more I think Henry and Werner were really pissed about Mookie's stance (the 420 million counter offer plus earlier extension rejections) and closed the books on him.

[mvp 78]

IMHO Sale and Eovaldi were never the issue with keeping Betts. Their deals weren't signed until they gave up on Betts.

 

The more I think of it, the more I think Henry and Werner were really pissed about Mookie's stance (the 420 million counter offer plus earlier extension rejections) and closed the books on him.

 

They should have countered with 69 million and see if it got a chuckle out of Mookie. Then they could have sat down like adults and agreed on 350.

[moonslav59]

It was a small sample but a decent sample. 2020 of course was a weird year all around. His pro-rated salary was a little over 6 million.

 

Bottom line, he's had one bad season, 2019, on this contract.

 

Agreed, but would you call his 2020 season "special?"

[moonslav59]

IMHO Sale and Eovaldi were never the issue with keeping Betts. Their deals weren't signed until they gave up on Betts.

 

The more I think of it, the more I think Henry and Werner were really pissed about Mookie's stance (the 420 million counter offer plus earlier extension rejections) and closed the books on him.

 

I still think a counter offer would have made for better optics.

[mvp 78]

I still think a counter offer would have made for better optics.

 

It's just bad negotiating.

[notin]

IMHO Sale and Eovaldi were never the issue with keeping Betts. Their deals weren't signed until they gave up on Betts.

 

The more I think of it, the more I think Henry and Werner were really pissed about Mookie's stance (the 420 million counter offer plus earlier extension rejections) and closed the books on him.

 

There’s a lot of conjecture being passed off as fact here. Do we really know when they “gave up” on Betts?

[moonslav59]

It's just bad negotiating.

 

Even if they knew they'd never come to an agreement, why not make one last offer?

 

Same with Lester. (With Lester, the offer they ended up making after he became a FA might have been enough to get an extension. It makes me think they knew this and never wanted him even at their final off price.)

[Bellhorn04]

Agreed, but would you call his 2020 season "special?"

 

No, but that's not really the point. It was a decent performance in an f'd-up season. I'd call it more of a wash than anything.

[Bellhorn04]

There’s a lot of conjecture being passed off as fact here. Do we really know when they “gave up” on Betts?

 

C'mon man, you've got better reading comprehension than that. "IMHO" and "I think" denote opinion, not fact.

[moonslav59]

No, but that's not really the point. It was a decent performance in an f'd-up season. I'd call it more of a wash than anything.

 

Well, I said he wasn't "special" in his first 2 seasons of the contract, and you objected to using that term.

 

Saying it wasn't special is not saying it was anything worse than a "wash" or even better than a wash.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, I said he wasn't "special" in his first 2 seasons of the contract, and you objected to using that term.

 

Saying it wasn't special is not saying it was anything worse than a "wash" or even better than a wash.

 

Come on.

 

2019 sucked for Eovaldi.

2020 was fine.

 

Lumping them together is useless.

[mvp 78]

Even if they knew they'd never come to an agreement, why not make one last offer?

 

Same with Lester. (With Lester, the offer they ended up making after he became a FA might have been enough to get an extension. It makes me think they knew this and never wanted him even at their final off price.)

 

They didn't feel the need to make a second offer because they knew enough of these little piggies would just make excuses for the ownership and just blame the greedy player anyway. No reason for PR! Fans have already bought the jersey!

[moonslav59]

Come on.

 

2019 sucked for Eovaldi.

2020 was fine.

 

Lumping them together is useless.

 

You seem to think "nothing special" means not fine.

 

It does not.

 

I asked if you thought 2020 was special and you said that's missing the point. The point was about 2020 being "special" or not.

 

Nobody was looking at 2020 and saying it made the signing worth it.

 

He pitched well in 2020 but nothing special. That's all I meant.

 

I'm glad we signed him, now- after 2021 and 2020 did not hurt the position, either.

[moonslav59]

They didn't feel the need to make a second offer because they knew enough of these little piggies would just make excuses for the ownership and just blame the greedy player anyway. No reason for PR! Fans have already bought the jersey!

 

Obviously many fans were upset about losing Betts. I happen to think it might have been more understandable to many fans, had a reasonable second offer been made and made public.

 

I don't care what their reasoning was for not doing so, but IMO, they should have done it. They should have learned from Lester, where the case was a little different due to Lester hinting he'd take a "team discount."

 

Betts never hinted at that.

[Nick]

I don't miss Betts and his salary one bit.....don't let the door hit you in the ass is my stance to all that leave us.

[dgalehouse]

I don't fault any player for leaving Boston for more money elsewhere. Why shouldn't they ?