trade deadline

[notin]

Dalbec and Groome for Scherzer. On the trade sim it is a minor overpay by the Red Sox... but it's worth it to beat other offers that are only fair value. Bloom does this on two conditions: a three-year extension for Max, and a three-month contract for El Guapo to sit on Sale in the dugout and temper his enthusiasm.

 

Bloom then deals Cordero and Potts to the Rox for CJ Cron. Colorado bets one of those guys will go off in the thin air, hit 30 bombs next year, and become another trade chip in a year.

 

Well, once you dealt Dalbec, you ruined my plausible (to me, anywa) Matt Beaty trade scenario. It’s just not the same with Chavis over Dalbec.

 

So… why not CJ Cron, aka The Human Lottery Ticket?

[Bellhorn04]

Considering you referenced a post about going over the tax limit this year as a counterpoint to my limiting my expectations from Sale, no. I find it difficult to believe that was not your intent…

 

Very cynical. I was referencing your point because I thought it was a good point. That was it.

[notin]

Very cynical. I was referencing your point because I thought it was a good point. That was it.

 

And the Sox should take 2021 seriously and not fret any tax limits. But they have to do so with the mindset that anything Sale gives is a bonus not to be counted on…

[Bellhorn04]

And the Sox should take 2021 seriously and not fret any tax limits. But they have to do so with the mindset that anything Sale gives is a bonus not to be counted on…

 

I have a lot of faith they will handle him wisely. And I hope they get as much as possible from him without jeopardizing his health.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

A Scherzer trade will be too complicated. Before he agrees to a trade, Scherzer wants an extension and his agent is Boris--he will want a lot of money. He isn't going to be worth the money in the long run (he will be 37 years old in a matter of days). I would avoid.

[d-money]

I would love to get Berrios but he hasn’t pitched well. Also the twins probably want the farm for the guy.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom is likely looking at guys who are more under the radar.

[sk7326]

Bloom is likely looking at guys who are more under the radar.

 

Agreed. The nice thing is that what the Red Sox need is not THAT difficult. Raising the floor at 1st base should not be a difficult ask. Getting a little more bullpen help should not be that difficult. Obviously multiple sources have connected Kimbrel though I am skeptical.

[Larry Cook]

I do not see hang’em Chaim being in on kimbrel. He had stated in several interviews about balancing today and tomorrow. He is definitely hunting under the radar guys with multiple years of team control.

 

Those are very hard to find in season, but he did it successfully last year.

[oldtimer]

Bloom is likely looking at guys who are more under the radar.

 

Bloom doesn't get into detail about what he is planning. Generally, he talks to everyone about possible deals and says he is in the buyer's column. He knows the team's needs so I trust him to make the best available trades for us. His general principles are to make moves that involve a sustainable improvement in the team. Doesn't sound much like rentals but who knows. We also don't know if he is empowered to spend beyond the CBT but there again we don't know. My hope is that with less than a week to go we don't wait for the final hour to announce ours. Too easy to lose out on what is thought to be the best.

[Larry Cook]

Bloom doesn't get into detail about what he is planning. Generally, he talks to everyone about possible deals and says he is in the buyer's column. He knows the team's needs so I trust him to make the best available trades for us. His general principles are to make moves that involve a sustainable improvement in the team. Doesn't sound much like rentals but who knows. We also don't know if he is empowered to spend beyond the CBT but there again we don't know. My hope is that with less than a week to go we don't wait for the final hour to announce ours. Too easy to lose out on what is thought to be the best.

 

Hang’em Chaim is not going to be box specific. Chances are he is a buyer and a seller much like Tampa did last week. Whatever improves the team today snd tomorrow, he will do it.

[moonslav59]

I could see Bloom buying and selling, but I can't really think of who he'd sell.

 

Richards?

 

Perez?

 

Would he get much for either one?

 

Would he then maybe trade some prospects not likely to make next year's roster for a RP'er?

 

More likely, he makes a minor trade that hopefully works out like the Eovaldi or Pearce trades of 2018.

 

[notin]

Bloom is likely looking at guys who are more under the radar.

 

That’s why I keep throwing out Matt Beaty…

[notin]

Bloom is likely looking at guys who are more under the radar.

 

 

Maybe he’ll sign Porcello. Can’t get further under the radar than that…

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Ottavino has a history of pitching poorly late in the season and into October. The Red Sox need to add to the bullpen. Kimbrel is the best one out there, but it doesn't need to be Kimbrel just as long as Bloom adds a quality reliever.

 

Thus, I think the Red Sox will add a starting 1b and a reliever. They will probably kick the tires on SPs, but no one will be worth it.

 

I'm looking forward to watching a new starting 1b and saying goodbye to the M.Chavis-B.Dalbec s*** show.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

Ottavino has a history of pitching poorly late in the season and into October. The Red Sox need to add to the bullpen. Kimbrel is the best one out there...

 

.691 OPS against first half

 

.641 OPS against second half

 

Career

[Fan_since_Boggs]

.691 OPS against first half

 

.641 OPS against second half

 

Career

 

RECENT history. And it is not so much a first half v. second thing as much as a decline late in the season, which then carried over into October.

[oldtimer]

Moon put out a thought provoking list of pitchers that we currently have, asking the que stion who do we let go of if we pick up one or more pitchers by the trade deadline. Always a difficult question when you want to pare away some of what we currently have. He proposed 13 pitchers going through the remaining season (at least until we get to the playoffs). That suggests we hold onto a total of 13 field players. one could ask the same question about field players, if we pick up one or more of those for the remainder of the season and into 2022.

 

One view is we try to make 1st base more productive:

 

1st Trade for a full time 1st baseman that can be with the team into 2022, assuming the possible addition of Casas by mid 2022 and the probable addition by lase 2022

2nd Hernandez

SS Bogie

3rd Devers

RF Renfroe

CF Duran

LF Verdugo

C Vaz

C2 Plaweki

DH Martinez

 

3 bench players:

 

2nd Arroyo who is a good enough hitter and fielder to start and allows Hernandez to rest or spell outfielders

UT Gonzalez is a SH who is the ultimate defensive flexibility guy that allows Cora freedom to rest players. I don't see him on a playoff or 2022 roster.

 

Who is the final bench player?

 

Dalbec Possibly, but does he really figure to be on the team in 2022

Chavis Unlikely, as he has never learned to stop chasing pitches and doesn't hit the high FB.

Santana Unlikely the oft hurt and never much of a hitter makes the grade

Cordero Possibly, if we give him more chances in 2021 and he doesn't perform then no to 2022

 

Are there other prospect who would be deemed ready for this year and into 2022? I don't see who that would be as York and Mayer are too far away. Others haven't distinguished themseelves.

 

Do we trade for another piece and through caution to the wind?

 

So, trading for a 1st baseman and possibly another field player assuming injuries and need for rest allows us to fit in another quality field player? Or a 1st baseman and keep Dalbec/Cordero?

 

What do others suggest?

[notin]

Even if they fully or partially replace Dalbec doesn’t necessarily remove him from 2022 completely. Casas may or moat not be ready, but if nothing else, the Duran situation should have taught us that the Sox don’t blindly hand spots to rookies as Plan A…

[moonslav59]

I’m not not ever have been for a 13 man pitching staff, but that seems to be their choice. My point was that even with 13 pitchers we have a tough demotion or DFA or trade away to make, so if we trade for a pitcher, he has to better than Sawamura.

 

That might be too costly.

 

That being said, I’d rather trade for pitching than 1B.

 

We may do nothing or next to nothing.

[Kimmi]

The Rays continue to surprise.

 

I was surprised by this move. Who gives up part of their rotation in the midst of a pennant race?

 

And yet, the Rays continue to win.

[Kimmi]

We need to reset this year even though we already reset last year!!!!!!!!

 

Stop.

[Kimmi]

It 's important that the owners avoid the self imposed " Luxury Tax." They need to save money in case they want to build a rocket and join the billionaire boy's club in space. And that's okay. But how about some lower prices for tickets, concessions and merchandise? Is that asking for too much?

 

Stop.

[moonslav59]

I was surprised by this move. Who gives up part of their rotation in the midst of a pennant race?

 

And yet, the Rays continue to win.

 

They explained that their projected production from Hill was not as high as other starters they currently have.

 

I don’t think they are done buying and selling.

[Bellhorn04]

RECENT history. And it is not so much a first half v. second thing as much as a decline late in the season, which then carried over into October.

 

I see some concerning signs in there as well.

 

I definitely think we should add a good reliever.

[Kimmi]

The main problem is that there is no way to know and no reason to believe the 2023 Red Sox or the 2024 Red Sox will be better than the 2021 Red Sox. In fact, chances are extremely good that they will be worse than the current .608 winning percentage team we currently have, and even if everything goes right, still might not be a first place team. That MLB legacy squad in Toronto might not be peaking yet…

 

No, there is no way to know how the team will do next year, much less 2023 and 2024, though on paper, they should be very good. Regardless, you don't jeopardize future and long term goals to be all in this year, especially when you can make the necessary tweaks without doing so. This is technically a 'rebuilding' year for the Sox. Bloom and Henry are not going to suddenly change course on their long term goals.

[Kimmi]

It is true.

 

People keep planning on Sale to return, but it's probably not wise to do so and maybe even not possible this season. No setbacks to date doesn't mean they are never coming. And I would hate to see him out for 2022 just so the Sox could use him for 30 to 40 IP this season...

 

The Sox are being extremely careful with him. They are not going to rush him back at the risk of losing him next season. Again, long term goals.

[Bellhorn04]

No, there is no way to know how the team will do next year, much less 2023 and 2024, though on paper, they should be very good. Regardless, you don't jeopardize future and long term goals to be all in this year, especially when you can make the necessary tweaks without doing so. This is technically a 'rebuilding' year for the Sox. Bloom and Henry are not going to suddenly change course on their long term goals.

 

Personally I agree with notin and mvp that going over the first tax line this year shouldn't be a big deal. Chaim already said there was no mandate about it. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

[Kimmi]

Considering you referenced a post about going over the tax limit this year as a counterpoint to my limiting my expectations from Sale, no. I find it difficult to believe that was not your intent…

 

I do think your two statements are kind of contradictory though.

 

Your post about going over the luxury tax suggests that we should do whatever it takes to win this season because we don't know what will happen next season. Your post about Sale suggests that we should be more concerned about next season as opposed to how Sale might help us this season.

[Kimmi]

Bloom is likely looking at guys who are more under the radar.

 

Bloom is likely to pull of a trade that none of us saw coming. Not that it will be a blockbuster, just unexpected.