Since they lost last night, I need to tell you what I REALLY feel about the 2021 Sox!

[Kimmi]

The 4 out of 9 thing is pretty skewed. In the 4 seasons he did better, there were a lot more games played than in the ones he did worse.

 

That's kind of the argument about SSS with the postseason numbers. None of those postseasons are substantial enough to conclude anything with any reliability. The numbers aren't even very reliable if taken all together.

 

Ortiz had 304 ABs and 369 PAs in total during the postseason. It takes 910 ABs for BA to stabilize, 460 PAs for OBP to stabilize, and 320 ABs for slugging to stabilize. While he was approaching the stabilizing point for SLG, he was not really close for BA or OBP. Add to this that the data is taken over 9 different seasons spread out over 15 years of his career, which is no small thing, and those numbers are even less reliable.

 

As the stat people like to say, there is a lot of noise in those postseason numbers.

[Kimmi]

It is a mental skill. Some can handle the pressure and some just can’t.

 

Kershaw is a great pitcher but when it comes to key moments like POs, he just can’t pitch well. Tons of examples are out there.

 

It doesn’t apply just in baseball but in all sports.

 

It is a skill.

 

I agree that it takes mental toughness not to choke repeatedly. In that sense, I believe that all MLB players are clutch. There are always going to be moments when even your best players have a bad at bat or a bad pitching outing.

 

I do not agree with the idea of clutch as a player being able to raise his game to the next level in key moments.

[Bellhorn04]

That's kind of the argument about SSS with the postseason numbers. None of those postseasons are substantial enough to conclude anything with any reliability. The numbers aren't even very reliable if taken all together.

 

Ortiz had 304 ABs and 369 PAs in total during the postseason. It takes 910 ABs for BA to stabilize, 460 PAs for OBP to stabilize, and 320 ABs for slugging to stabilize. While he was approaching the stabilizing point for SLG, he was not really close for BA or OBP. Add to this that the data is taken over 9 different seasons spread out over 15 years of his career, which is no small thing, and those numbers are even less reliable.

 

As the stat people like to say, there is a lot of noise in those postseason numbers.

 

Stat people can sometimes take the fun out of everything, too.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree that it takes mental toughness not to choke repeatedly. In that sense, I believe that all MLB players are clutch. There are always going to be moments when even your best players have a bad at bat or a bad pitching outing.

 

I do not agree with the idea of clutch as a player being able to raise his game to the next level in key moments.

 

I would agree that the idea of raising the game to another level is illogical.

[Bellhorn04]

See, there are hardly any golf fans here. Everybody who knows golf knows that there's choking in golf. Players even talk about it themselves. The term 'the yips' came from golf.

[Kimmi]

Stat people can sometimes take the fun out of everything, too.

 

Ha. Or add to the fun.

[Kimmi]

See, there are hardly any golf fans here. Everybody who knows golf knows that there's choking in golf. Players even talk about it themselves. The term 'the yips' came from golf.

 

I completely agree that athletes choke, even baseball players. I just think that those who can't withstand the pressure are weeded out before they reach MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

I completely agree that athletes choke, even baseball players. I just think that those who can't withstand the pressure are weeded out before they reach MLB.

 

I do think there are different levels of pressure though.

 

And we've seen pretty frightening cases of baseball players developing the yips. Steve Blass, Daniel Bard, Steve Sax, Chuck Knoblauch etc.

[moonslav59]

Haha. I've been away from this site for over a year and posters are still arguing about "clutch". Some things never change!

 

 

IMO "clutch" isn't a 'he is or he isn't' situation. Some people are more clutch than others and professional athletes are all near the top of this 'clutch' spectrum or else they wouldn't be where they are. However, there IS a spectrum even in the major leagues as well as in amateur leagues - or any sport. In fact, it's entirely possible that many talented baseball players aren't in the ML's simply because they choked during tryouts.

 

Welcome back!

[iortiz]

I agree that it takes mental toughness not to choke repeatedly. In that sense, I believe that all MLB players are clutch. There are always going to be moments when even your best players have a bad at bat or a bad pitching outing.

 

I do not agree with the idea of clutch as a player being able to raise his game to the next level in key moments.

Kelly raised his game in 2018 PO. Koji raised his game in 2013. Price raised his game in 2018 POs. Look at Pearce.

 

It goes the other way too. Look at a Kershaw. Look at a Mookie. Look at Kimbrel. Etc.

 

The list is endless.

 

The point is some players can deal better with pressure (clutch moments), some just can’t.

 

It is what it is.

[Bellhorn04]

Price and Kershaw have somewhat similar postseason histories.

[iortiz]

Price and Kershaw have somewhat similar postseason histories.

 

Yup and both have been terrific in regular season.

[moonslav59]

So, any good hitter who happens to go into a slump during the playoffs proves he's a choke.

 

Any bad to decent hitter who happens to get hot just in time for the playoffs proves he's clutch.

 

Nobody ever gets lucky. It's all skills- based.

 

The facts reveal themselves as they occur.

[iortiz]

If the samples are relatively large and fair like in Price’s & Kershew’s, yup.

 

The haven’t been in their expected level in most of their PO appearances. That’s a fact.

[moonslav59]

If the samples are relatively large and fair like in Price’s & Kershew’s, yup.

 

The haven’t been in their expected level in most of their PO appearances. That’s a fact.

 

Take Kershaw: if you randomly took any 189 IP from his career, do you think they'd all come out very close to his career norm?

 

You think there might be some variations, even wide variations?

 

If your answer is yes, then how do you know that's not what the playoff 189 IP is all about? A variation that happened to be poorer than his norm.

 

If you answer no, then you need to study statistics more.

[iortiz]

I bet most LAD fans do not feel comfortable when Kershaw takes the ball in POs. That’s the point.

[moonslav59]

I bet most LAD fans do not feel comfortable when Kershaw takes the ball in POs. That’s the point.

 

Goal posts made of Balsa wood

[mvp 78]

I would agree that the idea of raising the game to another level is illogical.

 

I don't think anyone actually thinks that exists.

[mvp 78]

These *******s couldn't even beat the lowly Yankees last night... No hits again...

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

These *******s couldn't even beat the lowly Yankees last night... No hits again...

 

Yup. The killer was Judge's inside the park HR. He circled the bases in 2 minutes flat, breaking the previous record held by Secretariat.

[notin]

These *******s couldn't even beat the lowly Yankees last night... No hits again...

 

This team has only 3 hits in the past 4 days!! Talk about a team slump!!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

This team has only 3 hits in the past 4 days!! Talk about a team slump!!

 

And they wouldn't even pitch to Dalbec proving he is the most feared batter in the SOX line-up.

[mvp 78]

And they wouldn't even pitch to Dalbec proving he is the most feared batter in the SOX line-up.

 

What are you talking about? He didn't even get on base!!

[Behindenemylines]

Last night’s lose (7-17) is on MLB and the umpires. Delay the game for an hour with it not raining. With the weather forecasting technology that exist that should never happen. The sixth inning should have never happened. By that time the conditions on the field were not safe at all. If game starts on time maybe it is already over before the rains got heavy. In the top of the sixth with bases loaded the umpires took the bat out of CV’s hands with the terrible strike calls. The time the Sox got on to the field in the bottom half of the inning the rain was even heavier and becoming harder for pitchers. Then the whole baseball throwing incident. I hope they got the right fan and he never sees the inside of a stadium again. Sanchez’s hr is an out in every other stadium. At that point you knew that outcome of the game. Remember this game if the Sox come up short in September. MLB should be embraced,

[Larry Cook]

Even if the Sox come up short. This season has been so much better than anything I could have hoped for after game 3 in April!

[mvp 78]

0-2 in games started by Duran. DFA

[Larry Cook]

0-2 in games started by Duran. DFA

 

Good to see we have not lost our ability to over react!

[moonslav59]

Good to see we have not lost our ability to over react!

 

or his sense of humor.

[notin]

0-2 in games started by Duran. DFA

 

With only 2 runs scored!!

 

He’s dragging everyone down!!

[Larry Cook]

With only 2 runs scored!!

 

He’s dragging everyone down!!

 

He got a tater today.