Since they lost last night, I need to tell you what I REALLY feel about the 2021 Sox!

[Hugh2]

No team? The Dodgers blew WAY past it this year.

 

LA is in a league of their own. No one else is over the limit, and if I was a betting man I’d wager that holds true to the end of the year.

 

EDIT. I left LA out because they were already over.

[Bellhorn04]

LA is in a league of their own. No one else is over the limit, and if I was a betting man I’d wager that holds true to the end of the year.

 

EDIT. I left LA out because they were already over.

 

Only a handful of teams have ever paid any significant amount of luxury tax, of course. Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox. A few other teams have gotten relatively small bills.

[Hugh2]

Only a handful of teams have ever paid any significant amount of luxury tax, of course. Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox. A few other teams have gotten relatively small bills.

 

Most teams have never paid a significant bill because most teams have never gone past and the. STAYED past the line, which dramatically increases with every subsequent year one is over.

 

I mean, I really don’t have strong emotions on whether or not the Sox should do it, I’m just certain they will not.

[Bellhorn04]

Most teams have never paid a significant bill because most teams have never gone past and the. STAYED past the line, which dramatically increases with every subsequent year one is over.

 

I mean, I really don’t have strong emotions on whether or not the Sox should do it, I’m just certain they will not.

 

I think notin's point is a sound one - the Red Sox going out of their way to avoid crossing the threshold this year, and thereby passing up a deal that could really bolster the 2021 chances, would not necessarily be smart.

 

And going over by a few million doesn't necessarily have any significant future repercussions.

[Kimmi]

I hope Bloom goes after significant additions. Ist base, outfield and BP help are targets. With Sale coming available and Duran also, maybe the BP additions are the most important.

 

IMO, the only way we get a 'significant' addition is if that addition will be with the team for at least 2-3 years after this year. I don't think Bloom will make a significant rental player addition. He is all about the long term goals and sustainability.

 

Sale and Houck should shore up our rotation, which in turn should also help our BP. Brasier? Duran will likely contribute at some point. Maybe Franchy and Dalbec become a platoon at 1B? I think the likely additions will be more along the lines of reinforcements rather than what we would view as game changers.

[Kimmi]

There’s no reason to avoid the tax line…

 

IMO, this is still not the season to go over the tax line.

[Kimmi]

I still believe they will consider BP help.

 

Bloom said something along the lines of him looking forward to wheeling and dealing before the deadline. Not sure what to make of that, but I still don't think there will be anything that is going to surprise us.

[Kimmi]

Again, there’s no reason to avoid the tax line. The argument that “but we might be even better in 3 years” is not only hypothetical and uncontrollable, but also falls outside the current CBA and this penalty might not exist in 3 years. Also it ignores the other obvious outcome - that the Sox might be worse in 3 years.

 

Plus the Sox are winning NOW. The 2024 season should NOT be the priority…

 

There is no reason to avoid the tax line if we acquire a player who will also help us in the future. IMO, it would not be very wise to exceed the tax line for a rental player.

[Kimmi]

I think notin's point is a sound one - the Red Sox going out of their way to avoid crossing the threshold this year, and thereby passing up a deal that could really bolster the 2021 chances, would not necessarily be smart.

 

And going over by a few million doesn't necessarily have any significant future repercussions.

 

Bolster the chances of making the playoffs or bolster the chances of winning the WS? I think that getting Sale back and reinforcing the BP and bench would be enough to bolster our chances of making the playoffs. Making a move geared toward bolstering our chances in the postseason is not wise.

[Bellhorn04]

Bolster the chances of making the playoffs or bolster the chances of winning the WS? I think that getting Sale back and reinforcing the BP and bench would be enough to bolster our chances of making the playoffs. Making a move geared toward bolstering our chances in the postseason is not wise.

 

It depends on the cost, of course.

 

Our deadline acquisitions in 2004, 2013 and 2018 were pretty helpful.

[moonslav59]

It depends on the cost, of course.

 

Our deadline acquisitions in 2004, 2013 and 2018 were pretty helpful.

 

Not ring years, but...

 

How about the Manny for Jason Bay in 2008? (We got Workman as a supp pick when JB left)

 

2009: Masterson & others for VMart?

 

2010: crap for Salty

 

2011: several players for Erik Bedard

 

2012: Albers and Podsednik for Albers/ Lars for Steven Wright

 

[Bellhorn04]

Not ring years, but...

 

How about the Manny for Jason Bay in 2008? (We got Workman as a supp pick when JB left)

 

2009: Masterson & others for VMart?

 

2010: crap for Salty

 

2011: several players for Erik Bedard

 

2012: Albers and Podsednik for Albers/ Lars for Steven Wright

 

 

Yep, there have been plenty of good ones.

[Kimmi]

It depends on the cost, of course.

 

Our deadline acquisitions in 2004, 2013 and 2018 were pretty helpful.

 

Of course it depends on cost.

 

Personally, I don't think it's worth going over the tax line or trading away top players for a rental player in the hopes that said player will help us win the WS. I prefer that we stay on course this year with our long term goals. We have a team that is good enough to get into postseason. As I always say, the playoffs are too much of a crapshoot.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course it depends on cost.

 

Personally, I don't think it's worth going over the tax line or trading away top players for a rental player in the hopes that said player will help us win the WS. I prefer that we stay on course this year with our long term goals. We have a team that is good enough to get into postseason. As I always say, the playoffs are too much of a crapshoot.

 

No matter how much of a crapshoot the playoffs are, bolstering your pitching can't hurt your chances.

 

Anyway, I'm sure whatever Bloom does will be smart.

[moonslav59]

No matter how much of a crapshoot the playoffs are, bolstering your pitching can't hurt your chances.

 

Anyway, I'm sure whatever Bloom does will be smart.

 

Bolstering the pitching staff and or 1B would likely help our chances, but Bloom is walking a tight line.

 

I'm thinking 2022 and beyond has a higher priority, but you don't want to piss away a season where we have the best AL record near the AS break.

 

These are the 10 guys I see as gone this winter, to make way for 3-4 FA signings and 5-6 Rule 5 prospects:

Richards, Marwin, Chavis, Andriese, Workman, Santana, Rios, Arauz, Wilson, Potts

 

I doubt we trade Richards or Marwin, but do any of the other 8 bring us what we need? (Assuming Bloom values the players like I suggested)

[Bellhorn04]

Bolstering the pitching staff and or 1B would likely help our chances, but Bloom is walking a tight line.

 

I'm thinking 2022 and beyond has a higher priority, but you don't want to piss away a season where we have the best AL record near the AS break.

 

These are the 10 guys I see as gone this winter, to make way for 3-4 FA signings and 5-6 Rule 5 prospects:

Richards, Marwin, Chavis, Andriese, Workman, Santana, Rios, Arauz, Wilson, Potts

 

I doubt we trade Richards or Marwin, but do any of the other 8 bring us what we need? (Assuming Bloom values the players like I suggested)

 

As always, you have to look at what the selling teams would be interested in.

 

Which selling teams have a good late inning reliever whose contract is expiring at the end of the year, for starters.

[moonslav59]

As always, you have to look at what the selling teams would be interested in.

 

Which selling teams have a good late inning reliever whose contract is expiring at the end of the year, for starters.

 

Yes, and also which teams would like to cut salary in a "lost season."

 

To me, since we won't want to give up any top prospects, our best chance at getting an impact player or two is to trade for salary dump-type players.

 

In theory, we could also trade for a starter, and move Richards or someone else to the pen, but a lot depends on Sale and our plans for how we use him.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and also which teams would like to cut salary in a "lost season."

 

To me, since we won't want to give up any top prospects, our best chance at getting an impact player or two is to trade for salary dump-type players.

 

Just look at our 2018 deadline deals:

 

Beeks for Eovaldi

Buttrey for Kinsler

Espinal for Pearce

[moonslav59]

Just look at our 2018 deadline deals:

 

Beeks for Eovaldi

Buttrey for Kinsler

Espinal for Pearce

 

None of those 3 had really promising outlooks when traded.

 

Those are the types of deals Bloom may make.

 

Going into this season, Bloom may have been envisioning trades like last summer- seller trades.

[notin]

None of those 3 had really promising outlooks when traded.

 

Those are the types of deals Bloom may make.

 

Going into this season, Bloom may have been envisioning trades like last summer- seller trades.

 

Bloom did make one of those trades, just not for the Sox…

[dgalehouse]

Teams seem to feel obligated to make a deal or three at the dreaded " trade deadline." Have to be either " buyers " or " sellers." Some fans look forward to it . Some hate what happens. G.M.s need to be smart. Try to do what's best for your organization, your players and your fans. Do that all of the time. Don't feel pressured to " do something " because it's the " deadline."

[moonslav59]

Teams seem to feel obligated to make a deal or three at the dreaded " trade deadline." Have to be either " buyers " or " sellers." Some fans look forward to it . Some hate what happens. G.M.s need to be smart. Try to do what's best for your organization, your players and your fans. Do that all of the time. Don't feel pressured to " do something " because it's the " deadline."

 

I agree, but once the deadline passes, you are stuck with what you have in your system.

[Bellhorn04]

Teams seem to feel obligated to make a deal or three at the dreaded " trade deadline." Have to be either " buyers " or " sellers." Some fans look forward to it . Some hate what happens. G.M.s need to be smart. Try to do what's best for your organization, your players and your fans. Do that all of the time. Don't feel pressured to " do something " because it's the " deadline."

 

I agree, and I think in the John Henry era our GM's have generally done an excellent job with deadline deals. There's never really been one that made you tear your hair out later. The Gagne trade was a horrendous disappointment, but it didn't really hurt us much when all was said and done.

[moonslav59]

I agree, and I think in the John Henry era our GM's have generally done an excellent job with deadline deals. There's never really been one that made you tear your hair out later. The Gagne trade was a horrendous disappointment, but it didn't really hurt us much when all was said and done.

 

The pre-Henry trade of Jamie Moyer for Darren Bragg hurt.

 

It seems clear we have done well to very well with our deadline deals since Henry came aboard.

[Kimmi]

No matter how much of a crapshoot the playoffs are, bolstering your pitching can't hurt your chances.

 

Anyway, I'm sure whatever Bloom does will be smart.

 

I don't disagree with either either statement.

[Kimmi]

Bolstering the pitching staff and or 1B would likely help our chances, but Bloom is walking a tight line.

 

I'm thinking 2022 and beyond has a higher priority, but you don't want to piss away a season where we have the best AL record near the AS break.

 

These are the 10 guys I see as gone this winter, to make way for 3-4 FA signings and 5-6 Rule 5 prospects:

Richards, Marwin, Chavis, Andriese, Workman, Santana, Rios, Arauz, Wilson, Potts

 

I doubt we trade Richards or Marwin, but do any of the other 8 bring us what we need? (Assuming Bloom values the players like I suggested)

 

Bloom has the long term outlook of the team in mind whenever he is making moves. At the same time, while sustainability is his priority, he has done a very good job of putting together a competitive team this year. I don't think he will 'piss away' this season. He seems to know how to find that balance.

 

IMO, he will find a way to improve the team before the deadline. It won't be a splashy move, but that doesn't mean it won't be a good move.

[notin]

Teams seem to feel obligated to make a deal or three at the dreaded " trade deadline." Have to be either " buyers " or " sellers." Some fans look forward to it . Some hate what happens. G.M.s need to be smart. Try to do what's best for your organization, your players and your fans. Do that all of the time. Don't feel pressured to " do something " because it's the " deadline."

 

The "deadline" is the media concoction. Every year, they will look at some team and say "Why didn't the Jellyfish make a move? Why didn't the Buffaloes trade away for the future?" And fans buy into it.

 

And the focus on such a small window. How many times have we seen a team go make a deal on, say, July 2, and do nothing on July 30/31st some ESPN bonehead is asking about their inactivity? And then some fans actually buy into it!!

[moonslav59]

Bloom has the long term outlook of the team in mind whenever he is making moves. At the same time, while sustainability is his priority, he has done a very good job of putting together a competitive team this year. I don't think he will 'piss away' this season. He seems to know how to find that balance.

 

IMO, he will find a way to improve the team before the deadline. It won't be a splashy move, but that doesn't mean it won't be a good move.

 

We may be surprised by a bigger move than expected, but we may value some players much more highly than Bloom & Co. do.

 

He may trade Groome, and we think, "Man, I'm surprised he traded a very promising pitching prospect," but maybe Bloom does not see a bright future for him (or some other rather highly ranked prospect).

[notin]

We may be surprised by a bigger move than expected, but we may value some players much more highly than Bloom & Co. do.

 

He may trade Groome, and we think, "Man, I'm surprised he traded a very promising pitching prospect," but maybe Bloom does not see a bright future for him (or some other rather highly ranked prospect).

 

Or he might look at Groome and think "Well it was nice to get like 115 IP out of him in 5 years. At this pace, he might be ready for MLB by, say, the 2055 season." You know. Like I do...

[dgalehouse]

We may be surprised by a bigger move than expected, but we may value some players much more highly than Bloom & Co. do.

 

He may trade Groome, and we think, "Man, I'm surprised he traded a very promising pitching prospect," but maybe Bloom does not see a bright future for him (or some other rather highly ranked prospect).

 

I would think that the Sox ( and probably all teams) have their own private internal scouting reports on their minor league prospects. Their evaluation may indeed be different than that of the general public.