2021 MLB Season Thread

[dgalehouse]

We both knew it was coming.

 

We disagreed on whether 2018 and the 3 division wins in a row was worth the price, but the writing was on the wall.

 

I had hopes the window would last longer than halfway through 2019, but I also thought, under the current rules, it would take much longer to rebuild the farm and team that Bloom was able to accomplish.

 

The farm still has a long way to go, but adding Mayer and the other players Bloom has acquired has sped up the timetable more than I thought possible or likely.

 

You were also so happy with Downs and Wong. A last place team gets a top draft pick. Mayer still has to show something. A couple of anonymous PTBNLs. This " rebuilding the farm" thing is dubious. You keep giving Bloom credit for things that he has not yet accomplished.

[notin]

Dombrowski has 2 rings and I'm guessing he's fairly comfortable financially. Not the worst.

 

His tactic for winning works short term and fails long term, which it did in both Miami and, to a lesser extent, Detroit. In Boston, he did leave the team in a bad place with no farm to support a slew of hefty contracts.

 

Winning is easier when your owner lets you spend a lot. Give Dombrowski the same constraints Cherington had and the 2018 Red Sox season might have been very differen.

 

And by “to a lesser extent”, I meant the winning in Detroit. The aftermath was actually quite devastating. Still is, in fact…

Edited August 13, 2021 by notin

[notin]

You were also so happy with Downs and Wong. A last place team gets a top draft pick. Mayer still has to show something. A couple of anonymous PTBNLs. This " rebuilding the farm" thing is dubious. You keep giving Bloom credit for things that he has not yet accomplished.

 

“Rebuilding the farm” does have varying levels of success. If you want to supplement your MLB roster, you need it to produce capable to goid Major Leaguers. If you want to use it to make trades, you just need really good minor leaguers…

[Bellhorn04]

His tactic for winning works short term and fails long term, which it did in both Miami and, to a lesser extent, Detroit. In Boston, he did leave the team in a bad place with no farm to support a slew of hefty contracts.

 

Winning is easier when your owner lets you spend a lot. Give Dombrowski the same constraints Cherington had and the 2018 Red Sox season might have been very differen.

 

And by “to a lesser extent”, I meant the winning in Detroit. The aftermath was actually quite devastating. Still is, in fact…

 

Must we say it again? Cherington spent 350 million on Porcello, Hanley, Pablo and Rusney. He also signed the Pedroia extension. All those things impacted 2018 and 2019 too.

 

And I think there's a possibility that the decision makers who replaced DD in Detroit did a lousy job. It's been a long time now.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[mvp 78]

Must we say it again? Cherington spent 350 million on Porcello, Hanley, Pablo and Rusney. He also signed the Pedroia extension. All those things impacted 2018 and 2019 too.

 

And I think there's a possibility that the decision makers who replaced DD in Detroit did a lousy job. It's been a long time now.

 

I thought Pedroia's contract was a below market deal?

[mvp 78]

His tactic for winning works short term and fails long term, which it did in both Miami and, to a lesser extent, Detroit. In Boston, he did leave the team in a bad place with no farm to support a slew of hefty contracts.

 

Winning is easier when your owner lets you spend a lot. Give Dombrowski the same constraints Cherington had and the 2018 Red Sox season might have been very differen.

 

And by “to a lesser extent”, I meant the winning in Detroit. The aftermath was actually quite devastating. Still is, in fact…

 

DD took over a terrible Tigers team. In 2002 and 2003, they were historically awful. From 2006 - 2014, they were either in 1st or 2nd place 7 of 9 years. Pretty damn good with a string of 4 first place finishes.

[mvp 78]

Red Sox 2015:

 

52-66 without DD

26-18 with DD

 

Then they won the division back to back to back.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought Pedroia's contract was a below market deal?

 

It did seem like a good idea at the time.

 

I only mention it again in the context of the silly 'Ben couldn't spend, but DD could spend as much as he wanted' argument.

[mvp 78]

It did seem like a good idea at the time.

 

I only mention it again in the context of the silly 'Ben couldn't spend, but DD could spend as much as he wanted' argument.

 

Ben could spend. Ben's problem was that he was trying to serve two masters: spending to compete and maintaining a farm. He got caught between the two. I still believe he was told to get Pablo and Hanley.

[Bellhorn04]

Ben could spend. Ben's problem was that he was trying to serve two masters: spending to compete and maintaining a farm. He got caught between the two. I still believe he was told to get Pablo and Hanley.

 

I understand believing that. But it's speculation. I think Kimmi settles for a 50/50 on that one.

 

By the same token, we know that DD wasn't hired to penny-pinch and future-build, so why does he get raked for what he did?

[dgalehouse]

Winning the Division three straight years seems like sustainable success. It doesn't happen too often. How long are we supposed to look into the future? How long a leash does any G.M. have? Five year plans can fail too . And there is nothing to enjoy in the meantime.

[notin]

Ben could spend. Ben's problem was that he was trying to serve two masters: spending to compete and maintaining a farm. He got caught between the two. I still believe he was told to get Pablo and Hanley.

 

Well his first year he’s wasn’t allowed to spend. That’s why Scutaro was traded - to free up cash. And reportedly there was some edict about signing free agent pitchers over 30…

[moonslav59]

Winning the Division three straight years seems like sustainable success. It doesn't happen too often. How long are we supposed to look into the future? How long a leash does any G.M. have? Five year plans can fail too . And there is nothing to enjoy in the meantime.

 

When you trade away the whole farm but 1-2 guys and it was a nice farm when he took over, and you bring the payroll from the $165-175M to $200-230M a year, the window should be longer than 3 years.

[Bellhorn04]

When you trade away the whole farm but 1-2 guys and it was a nice farm when he took over, and you bring the payroll from the $165-175M to $200-230M a year, the window should be longer than 3 years.

 

A lot of the payroll inherited was dead money. And a lot of the increases were arb increases.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski made 2 big splash signings - Price and JDM. And JDM's price came in lower than initially expected.

 

The narrative is false.

[notin]

Dombrowski made 2 big splash signings - Price and JDM. And JDM's price came in lower than initially expected.

 

The narrative is false.

 

Eovaldi?

[moonslav59]

A lot of the payroll inherited was dead money. And a lot of the increases were arb increases.

 

Yes, just as much of Blooms payroll was inherited and was "dead money."

 

Same with arb raises.

 

The difference was the no going over the tax line edict. (No, if wasn't a soft guideline.)

 

BTW, I did not say DD created the whole bloated payroll- just that he left one for Bloom. Not a false narrative.

Edited August 13, 2021 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Eovaldi?

 

Mid-range signing, but OK.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, just as much of Blooms payroll was inherited and was "dead money."

 

Same with arb raises.

 

The difference was the no going over the tax line edict. (No, if wasn't a soft guideline.)

 

BTW, I did not say DD created the whole bloated payroll- just that he left one for Bloom. Not a false narrative.

 

DD inherited payroll problems, and so did Bloom. We agree on that.

 

Personally I find the blame game a tiresome one. Makes us sound pretty sour and ungrateful considering the great run we've had.

[mvp 78]

DD inherited payroll problems, and so did Bloom. We agree on that.

 

Personally I find the blame game a tiresome one. Makes us sound pretty sour and ungrateful considering the great run we've had.

 

Just blame ownership.

 

Bloom is fine. DD was fine. Ben was fine. Theo was fine.

[Bellhorn04]

Just blame ownership.

 

Bloom is fine. DD was fine. Ben was fine. Theo was fine.

 

Ownership is fine too, in my opinion. They seem to change course a lot, but keep spending and keep winning, in general.

[moonslav59]

DD inherited payroll problems, and so did Bloom. We agree on that.

 

Personally I find the blame game a tiresome one. Makes us sound pretty sour and ungrateful considering the great run we've had.

 

True.

 

How good night we’ve, now, if our payroll was $230M and we had a great farm and then trade much of it away?

[mvp 78]

Ownership is fine too, in my opinion. They seem to change course a lot, but keep spending and keep winning, in general.

 

No. Henry is a vampire. Warner is a muppet.

 

I have no faith that they will do the right thing.

 

They can hire good GM's and still f*** everything up.

[a700hitter]

Funny.

 

You thought the 2021 team would lose 90 games, but that's not "shambles."

 

2020 was not "shambles," because it was shortened.

 

The end of 2019 was not "shambles," because the start of 2019 was so good.

 

 

Bloom turns things around, quickly, and DD gets the credit.

 

Nice try.

But my prediction was wrong and the Red Sox are not going to lose 90 games and they were in first place after 100 games. Do you consider that to be a shambles? Nice try.

[a700hitter]

Marwin DFA’d. It’s about time. How much did Bloom pay that bum?

[moonslav59]

But my prediction was wrong and the Red Sox are not going to lose 90 games and they were in first place after 100 games. Do you consider that to be a shambles? Nice try.

 

No. You considered us in shambles.

 

I projected a cliff longer than it appears to have been. I was wrong.

[moonslav59]

Marwin DFA’d. It’s about time. How much did Bloom pay that bum?

 

$3M.

 

If someone claims him, LOL, subtract what they pay him.

[a700hitter]

No. You considered us in shambles.

 

I projected a cliff longer than it appears to have been. I was wrong.

i did think they were in shambles at the end of Spring Training, but first place after 100 games proved me wrong.

[moonslav59]

i did think they were in shambles at the end of Spring Training, but first place after 100 games proved me wrong.

 

I'm impressed.

[a700hitter]

I'm impressed.

LOL! I have been saying this for more than 2 months .