Major Concerns

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox are treating Whitlock like a starter. He’s getting ample rest between appearances. I wonder if he ends up being the regular piggybacker to Perez or Richards and eventually takes over for them if they continue their struggles.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox are treating Whitlock like a starter. He’s getting ample rest between appearances. I wonder if he ends up being the regular piggybacker to Perez or Richards and eventually takes over for them if they continue their struggles.

 

Yeah, they've already said they're planning to build him up to be a starter.

[jacksonianmarch]

He was a good one in the Yanks minor league system.

[Bellhorn04]

There was a good story in the Boston Globe a week or two ago about the Red Sox scout who kept telling the team to get Whitlock if they could.

 

The unfortunate part of the story was that said scout was one of the guys the team let go in their COVID cutbacks.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cordero has never had 160 PA in a season. He really doesn't have a history.

 

 

That is his history; he's played in parts of MLB seasons for half a decade now and has never been good or healthy enough to get more PA. Cordero has the same areas of concern that Duran has and needs to learn those in the same place: the minors. Go unleash that infinite potential for the Melting Polar Ice Caps, win the Triple A triple crown, and come back with a bang.

 

Bring up Puello; at least we know he can play outfield (and also had a .900 OPS in the one AAA season Cordero starred -- in the '17 PCL where 32 batters bettered .900). https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/leader.cgi?type=bat&id=a81c8ceb

[notin]

That is his history; he's played in parts of MLB seasons for half a decade now and has never been good or healthy enough to get more PA. Cordero has the same areas of concern that Duran has and needs to learn those in the same place: the minors. Go unleash that infinite potential for the Melting Polar Ice Caps, win the Triple A triple crown, and come back with a bang.

 

Bring up Puello; at least we know he can play outfield (and also had a .900 OPS in the one AAA season Cordero starred -- in the '17 PCL where 32 batters bettered .900). https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/leader.cgi?type=bat&id=a81c8ceb

 

Does Cordero have an option? Maybe they will send him when the AAA season starts.

 

Fangraphs lists 2, but I doubt it. It does seem like he could have one remaining, depending on when San Diego added him to the 40 man roster...

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe a tiny bit early to kick both Renfroe and Cordero off the team.

[notin]

Maybe a tiny bit early to kick both Renfroe and Cordero off the team.

 

But not Taylor

 

Actually I would imagine a big part of why some of the struggling payers who have options left (like Taylor) have not been demoted is there is really no place to demote them to if they have to work on things. We might see some players hit the Worcester Shuttle once Worcester actually opens for business.

 

I would not be surprised if Taylor went down and either Houck or Bazardo was brought up. I would be very surprised if Cordero went down just so the equally questionable Jarren Duran could be brought up, and that Duran is not on the 40 man roster is the smallest part of it...

[mvp 78]

Does Cordero have an option? Maybe they will send him when the AAA season starts.

 

Fangraphs lists 2, but I doubt it. It does seem like he could have one remaining, depending on when San Diego added him to the 40 man roster...

 

Cordero doesn’t need to be sent down.

[mvp 78]

Maybe a tiny bit early to kick both Renfroe and Cordero off the team.

 

Just platoon them.

[Bellhorn04]

Just platoon them.

 

That does seem to make sense.

[notin]

That does seem to make sense.

 

At least while Arroyo is hitting...

[illinoisredsox]

But not Taylor

 

Actually I would imagine a big part of why some of the struggling payers who have options left (like Taylor) have not been demoted is there is really no place to demote them to if they have to work on things. We might see some players hit the Worcester Shuttle once Worcester actually opens for business.

 

I would not be surprised if Taylor went down and either Houck or Bazardo was brought up. I would be very surprised if Cordero went down just so the equally questionable Jarren Duran could be brought up, and that Duran is not on the 40 man roster is the smallest part of it...

 

A good point about the minors not being open for business yet.

 

Houck will not be brought up unless they need a spot start or one of the starters goes down. Bazardo would be more likely (especially if his future is as a pen guy).

 

One problem with sending Taylor down is it makes the pen even more right handed; that would leave Darwinzon as the only southpaw out there and reliable is not an adjective that describes him right now. Groome is the only other lefty on the 40 man and like Houck, he's a starter (and only has 20 minor league starts as it is).

 

Taylor has had 4 good appearances, 2 terrible ones and 2 meh. I'm not saying he shouldn't be sent down, but the alternatives aren't exactly great.

[notin]

Who cares what arm a guy throws with if everyone crushes the few strike he throws? Ineffectivity need not be justified by left-handedness.

 

And the whole “needing a lefty in the pen” got a lot less important with the (highly questionable) three batter minimum rule...

[notin]

And if they switch Houck to the pen, it’s not the worst idea...

[moonslav59]

And with our next loss, 'major concerns' will return.

 

Exactly! That's what it seems like, right?

[moonslav59]

The Sox are treating Whitlock like a starter. He’s getting ample rest between appearances. I wonder if he ends up being the regular piggybacker to Perez or Richards and eventually takes over for them if they continue their struggles.

 

That's how I see it, or to prepare for an injury or COVID event.

 

I kind of expected more innings/pitches than 2.1/41, last night.

 

Every one of our starters still have a question mark next to their name. Houck may not be enough starter depth, by himself, and he's on an innings limit, this year, too.

[moonslav59]

Cordero doesn’t need to be sent down.

 

Agreed, and despite him looking lost on D a couple times, he's much more experience than Duran in the OF.

 

This season was designed to find the answers on a number of Sox player and to determine who fits into our longer term plans.

 

Sending Cordero down, and yes he and Renfroe both have remaining options, does not answer his question. He and other deserve a longer look.

 

I get how it seems like we might be destroying our chances, this year, by playing struggling young players, too long, but there's a good chance they will turn it around, like Dalbec is, or that the kid we call up will struggleor even do worse.

 

Duran, Houck and others will get their chance, this year. Others, like Downs, Casas, Seabold and others may have to wait longer or may get just a brief showing, this year, especially if we keep winning, and the player "blocking" their path is doing well.

 

Remember, Arroyo & Cordero are both still young enough to have room to improve and grow.

 

Let's find out what they can give us before rolling the dice on Duran and Downs.

 

It wasn't long ago, someone was suggesting we send Dalbec down.

 

 

[moonslav59]

That does seem to make sense.

 

I thought that should be the plan all along, but that means Hernandez or Marwin plays OF.

 

Arroyo has kind of forced the issue to fruition.

 

Thanks, Christian!

[oldtimer]

Agreed, and despite him looking lost on D a couple times, he's much more experience than Duran in the OF.

 

This season was designed to find the answers on a number of Sox player and to determine who fits into our longer term plans.

 

Sending Cordero down, and yes he and Renfroe both have remaining options, does not answer his question. He and other deserve a longer look.

 

I get how it seems like we might be destroying our chances, this year, by playing struggling young players, too long, but there's a good chance they will turn it around, like Dalbec is, or that the kid we call up will struggleor even do worse.

 

Duran, Houck and others will get their chance, this year. Others, like Downs, Casas, Seabold and others may have to wait longer or may get just a brief showing, this year, especially if we keep winning, and the player "blocking" their path is doing well.

 

Remember, Arroyo & Cordero are both still young enough to have room to improve and grow.

 

Let's find out what they can give us before rolling the dice on Duran and Downs.

 

It wasn't long ago, someone was suggesting we send Dalbec down.

 

ith Dalbec having an anemic daay

Renfroe was held out of the

Codero looks absolutely lost at the plate today and Renfroe was held out of the game. Neither of these guys are impressive ML players. I don't see what you do in them.

[notin]

Renfroe was held out of the

Codero looks absolutely lost at the plate today and Renfroe was held out of the game. Neither of these guys are impressive ML players. I don't see what you do in them.

 

Cordero missed most of spring training and has 46 plate appearances.

 

Should the Sox demote him and give Jarren Duran 46 plate appearances to impress? What happens if he isn’t impressive in those 46 plate appearances? DFA him and try Gettys for 46 plate appearances?

[mvp 78]

That does seem to make sense.

 

All I’m asking. I don’t need a roster shake up.

 

Well, I’d think about the bullpen makeup.

[moonslav59]

Renfroe was held out of the

Codero looks absolutely lost at the plate today and Renfroe was held out of the game. Neither of these guys are impressive ML players. I don't see what you do in them.

 

Nobody is denying they look awful, right now. Even the best players look awful at times- sometimes even for 50 PA sample sizes like these two have had,so far.

 

It's not about me "seeing something in them" that you are missing, it's just that I will never definitively define a player's value or skillset based on a 50-60 PA sample size right out of the gate, in the cold of April and after a 60 game season,last year.

 

I can understand the loss of faith in Cordero, since his history is so broken into pieces due to injuries, there is not true read on who exactly he is or can be. No doubt, he has skills, but many a player has had all the tools and never progressed past stink, stank, stunk. He might join that crowd, but I'd like to know for sure, before I call up a kid who has barely played CF, even in the minors. I'd be okay with giving Cordero a break, but I'd want to give him another, even longer, look at some point.

 

If you want to know something specifically I see in Cordero, here's a few things:

 

1. an immense skill set.

2. a career .748 OPS vs RHPs (not great but close to what Duran has done in the minors.)

3. 750 innings in the OF at the ML level and 4,400 in the minors compared to 1480 by Duran.

4. several years of team control at a low cost and our need to find out, if he deserves to stick around.

 

Now, on to Renfroe. Please! This guy is a proven stud vs LHPs, and there is no way in hell, Duran is better than he is vs lefties. I could give a crap about a dinky 60 PA sample where he's played vs righties more than he should have.

 

He's even got an overall career OPS of .767. While.710 vs LHPs might not be all that good for 2021, it's not bad enough to demote him for Marwin or Duran.

 

He's a career .905 hitter vs LHPs! I'll croak if Duran or Marwin can give us that in 2021. I'm not saying Renfroe will,either, but he's shown he can do it at the big league level and can very easily do it again going forward. Is a short 50-60 PA sample size enough to give up on anyone, let alone players who have shown they can succeed in certain situations?

 

If we went by ST'ing we'd have benched JD and others. Other than ST'ing, some low minor league ball and some fall/winter league heroics, what makes anyone so sure Duran is the real deal?

 

The highest level Duran has reach is AA, where he has a .634 OPS. Come on!

 

OK, let's drool over his .998 OPS in 50 games at A+ ball and .878 in just 30 games at single A ball. Okay,okay, his.823 career OPS in the minors is worthy of him getting a good chance,someday, but he just switched positions and significantly altered his hitting approach. That screams of needing more time in the minors, and he hasn't played in a live game since March.

 

I'm not trying to bad moth Duran. I hope the kid does great. I'm pretty sure he'll get a long look in the bigs, maybe even, this year. I just don't see the same urgency you do, and I try hard to refrain from thinking knee-jerk management styles are effective.

 

 

 

He only hit .753 in college.

[moonslav59]

All I’m asking. I don’t need a roster shake up.

 

Well, I’d think about the bullpen makeup.

 

Agreed, and replacing your 14th man on the pitching staff is not really a roster shake up, anyway. (Even 12-14.)

[moonslav59]

Cordero missed most of spring training and has 46 plate appearances.

 

Should the Sox demote him and give Jarren Duran 46 plate appearances to impress? What happens if he isn’t impressive in those 46 plate appearances? DFA him and try Gettys for 46 plate appearances?

 

If GMs made big roster moves based on 46 PA sample size, we'd have nobody left.

 

Now, is Cordero a "major concern?" Hell, yes.

 

Is Renfroe? Not vs LHPs, he's not.

 

Maybe we should have benched Devers after a .626 start in 26 PAs.

 

Dalbec was at .508 after 37 PAs. Had we benched him, we'd have missed his 1.111 OPS in his next 20 PAs.

 

Had we benched JBJ after every 45 PA slump, he'd barely have played for us, at all.

Edited April 25, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

IF defense

OF defense

C game calling/staff handling

SP3

SP4

SP5

RP6

RP7

RP8

RP9

LF/CF

Budget restraints

[oldtimer]

Cordero missed most of spring training and has 46 plate appearances.

 

Should the Sox demote him and give Jarren Duran 46 plate appearances to impress? What happens if he isn’t impressive in those 46 plate appearances? DFA him and try Gettys for 46 plate appearances?

 

And what happens if he is? If you recommend staying with a guy who looks bad instead of trying a legitimate alternative, then your opinion is different than mine. Both are opinions.

[mvp 78]

IF defense

OF defense

C game calling/staff handling

SP3

SP4

SP5

RP6

RP7

RP8

RP9

LF/CF

Budget restraints

 

Budget restraints??? They already reset?!?!?

[notin]

And what happens if he is? If you recommend staying with a guy who looks bad instead of trying a legitimate alternative, then your opinion is different than mine. Both are opinions.

 

I never said don't try an alternative. I said don't try one just because of 46 plate appearances.

 

After 58 PA, Chavis had a 1.236 OPS. After 57 PA, Dustin Pedroia had a .450 OPS. Those small sample sizes lead to any meaningful conclusions?

 

Here's the thing - it's not exactly a secret you wanted Duran here since opening day. But the problem is, Duran has very little time in the outfield and had his learning to play the position interrupted by a pandemic that cost him an entire season. And the 37 games of Arizona Fall League and Foreign Leagues he has played over the past 2 years don't really make up for losing that entire season, especially since he didn't have any Sox coaching. You're probably going to have to wait a bit on him...

[notin]

Budget restraints??? They already reset?!?!?

 

Maybe that's why it's not on top?