2021 Spring Training Discussion

[Kimmi]

Maybe there are newer philosophies? Maybe the newer philosophies don't work for every lineup? IDK.

 

One weird decision wouldn't make me question the manager.

 

This is not a weird decision. This is a pretty egregious error.

 

That said, batting order really does not make that much of a difference.

 

Still....

 

I have Kike batting 8th or 9th.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi probably did...

 

I will say that the offseason after 2012 was one of my favorite offseasons.

[Swiharts Ghost]

This is not a weird decision. This is a pretty egregious error.

 

That said, batting order really does not make that much of a difference.

 

Still....

 

I have Kike batting 8th or 9th.

 

Xander leading off 50 percent with Vaz hitting 9th I like but could see Cora turning to Kiki in the 9 spot to elongate this lineup.Im not worried about Hunter hitting 9th as much as some .I would like to see Devers hitting second some this year with Verdugo leading off and Bogey slotted in to Cleanup much more than years past .JDM has a lot to prove this year I’d start him off in the 7 hole to ease him in .I like this team more than most this year but I think a lot Rides on JDM as to just how dangerous we can be .Futures Bright guys let’s do this .We can go in many directions lineup wise .

Edited March 2, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[a700hitter]

Xander leading off with Vaz hitting 9th I like but could see Cora turning to Kiki in the 9 spot to elongate this lineup.Im not worried about Hunter hitting 9th as much as some .I would like to see Devers hitting second some this year with Verdugo leading off and Bogey slotted in to Cleanup .JDM has a lot to prove this year I’d start him off in the 7 hole to ease him in .I like this team more than most this year but I think a lot Rides on JDM as to just how dangerous we can be .Futures Bright guys let’s do this .

Can the lineup get longer than 9?

[moonslav59]

This is not a weird decision. This is a pretty egregious error.

 

That said, batting order really does not make that much of a difference.

 

Still....

 

I have Kike batting 8th or 9th.

 

Remember that clown poster on that ‘other site?’ He used to say the “manager needs to talk to ______ and tell him we need you to get on base more often.” (Like it’s that easy.)

[Swiharts Ghost]

Can the lineup get longer than 9?

 

Lol nice !!! Been away a min missed you folks .

[moonslav59]

I'm fine with Bogey 4th and JD 5th.

 

The modern theory is the 3 slot is no longer for your best or second best hitters- maybe not even 3rd or 4th best. That means Devers or Verdugo should bat second.

 

They both bat lefty, so flipping them vs lefties or righties doesn't work, well. (One could argue flipping Bogey vs LHP and Devers or Verdugo v RHP in the 2 slot might make some sense.)

 

I'm not big on the lefty-righty line-up philosophy, but having Verdugo (L) and Devers (L) 1 and 2 and Bogey ® and JD ® up 4 & 5 might not be ideal.

 

Assuming we go "modern" and put someone like the Renfroe-Cordero platoon up 3rd (or Dalbec), is this what it might look like?

 

1. Verdugo L

2. Devers L

3. Renfroe R/ Cordero L

4. Bogey R

5. JD R

6. Dalbec R

 

Would this look nicer?

1. Verdugo L

2. Bogey R

3. Renfroe R/Cordero L

4. Devers L

5. JD R

6. Dalbec R

 

The idea of EHern up first, pushes the better hitters deeper into the line-up. (It's called "lengthening the line-up" to those not familiar with baseball terminology.) I'm seriously doubtful about the idea working.

R EHern

L Verdugo

R JD

L Devers

R Bogey

R/L Renfroe/Cordero

R Dalbec

R Vaz

R Cordero/Renfroe or Arroyo/Chavis or S Marwin

[notin]

This is not a weird decision. This is a pretty egregious error.

 

That said, batting order really does not make that much of a difference.

 

Still....

 

I have Kike batting 8th or 9th.

 

Roster Resource has him batting 9th as well...

[moonslav59]

This is not a weird decision. This is a pretty egregious error.

 

That said, batting order really does not make that much of a difference.

 

Still....

 

I have Kike batting 8th or 9th.

 

While line-ups may not mean much, batting someone first or ninth means a lot more of less PAs for Kiki.

 

In 2019, the number 1 slot had 241 more PAs than our # 9 slot.

[Swiharts Ghost]

I'm fine with Bogey 4th and JD 5th.

 

The modern theory is the 3 slot is no longer for your best or second best hitters- maybe not even 3rd or 4th best. That means Devers or Verdugo should bat second.

 

They both bat lefty, so flipping them vs lefties or righties doesn't work, well. (One could argue flipping Bogey vs LHP and Devers or Verdugo v RHP in the 2 slot might make some sense.)

 

I'm not big on the lefty-righty line-up philosophy, but having Verdugo (L) and Devers (L) 1 and 2 and Bogey ® and JD ® up 4 & 5 might not be ideal.

 

Assuming we go "modern" and put someone like the Renfroe-Cordero platoon up 3rd (or Dalbec), is this what it might look like?

 

1. Verdugo L

2. Devers L

3. Renfroe R/ Cordero L

4. Bogey R

5. JD R

6. Dalbec R

 

Would this look nicer?

1. Verdugo L

2. Bogey R

3. Renfroe R/Cordero L

4. Devers L

5. JD R

6. Dalbec R

 

The idea of EHern up first, pushes the better hitters deeper into the line-up. (It's called "lengthening the line-up" to those not familiar with baseball terminology.) I'm seriously doubtful about the idea working.

R EHern

L Verdugo

R JD

L Devers

R Bogey

R/L Renfroe/Cordero

R Dalbec

R Vaz

R Cordero/Renfroe or Arroyo/Chavis or S Marwin

 

As always Thankyou for this Moon .Cora does have a talented team just look at these players .Season can’t start soon enough for me .

[Swiharts Ghost]

Verdugo

Devers

Renfroe

Bogey

Dalbec

JDM

Cordero

Vaz

Kiki

I would love to see something like this yes very Right dominant .My belief is Kiki and Vaz Are interchangeable in the 9 hole but Kiki can bat leadoff 20 25 games to spell Verdugo

Edited March 3, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[moonslav59]

As always Thankyou for this Moon .Cora does have a talented team just look at these players .Season can’t start soon enough for me .

 

You're welcome.

 

My focus was on the top 6-7 in the line-up, but I think many are short-changing our 7-9 hitters.

 

True, some other teams have deeper and stronger bottom of the orders, but our bottom 7-9 willbe better than most and maybe even better than 20-24 other teams.

 

Vaz has a .798 OPS with 30 HRs in about 700 PAs from 2019-2020. That's a damn good 7-9 hitter.

 

EHern is not a bad hitter at all. He should hit about .750.

 

That leaves Renfroe of Cordero (off-handed) or Arroyo, Chavis or Marwin, if EHern plays CF. This may be our weakest slot in the line-up, but there is some hope it's not all that bad, and we have 5 guys to choose from as the hottest of them all.

[Bellhorn04]

While line-ups may not mean much, batting someone first or ninth means a lot more of less PAs for Kiki.

 

In 2019, the number 1 slot had 241 more PAs than our # 9 slot.

 

141, that is.

[mvp 78]

Well, it makes sense to bat Kiké leadoff. The guy who hits leadoffs is more likely to hit without anyone else on than any other slot in the lineup. May as well have one of your worst hitters there!

[moonslav59]

Verdugo

Devers

Renfroe

Bogey

Dalbec

JDM

Cordero

Vaz

Kiki

I would love to see something like this yes very Right dominant .My belief is Kiki and Vaz Are interchangeable in the 9 hole but Kiki can bat leadoff 20 25 games to spell Verdugo

 

I would flip JD and Dalbec.

 

Dalbec has "more to prove" than JD.

 

I could see Cordero maybe not starting vs LHPs, but he should get a chance to show what he can do versus them. If he struggles, we could play EHern in CF vs lefties and Arroyo, Chavis or Marwin at 2B (batting them 9th).

[jacksonianmarch]

If you make the assumption that games will end at a random spot in the lineup, then one can assume that a spot in the order will be the final AB of the game 18 times a season.

 

So....

 

The 1 spot will have 18 more ABs than the 2 spot as the game will end 18 times with their spot being the final AB

The 2 spot will have 18 more AB's than the 3rd spot, etc etc etc.

 

So, mathematically, the difference between 1 and 9 is about 144 PAs in a season. So it makes all the sense in the world to have your best hitters bat in the 1 and 2 slot.

[mvp 78]

If you make the assumption that games will end at a random spot in the lineup, then one can assume that a spot in the order will be the final AB of the game 18 times a season.

 

So....

 

The 1 spot will have 18 more ABs than the 2 spot as the game will end 18 times with their spot being the final AB

The 2 spot will have 18 more AB's than the 3rd spot, etc etc etc.

 

So, mathematically, the difference between 1 and 9 is about 144 PAs in a season. So it makes all the sense in the world to have your best hitters bat in the 1 and 2 slot.

 

Xander

Raffy

Verdugo

JD

Renfroe/Cordero

Dalbec

Vazquez

Kiké

Arroyo

[notin]

Xander

Raffy

Verdugo

JD

Renfroe/Cordero

Dalbec

Vazquez

Kiké

Arroyo

 

Is Arroyo really a better option in the lineup over Renfroe and Cordero?

[mvp 78]

Is Arroyo really a better option in the lineup over Renfroe and Cordero?

 

Cordero 573 vs LHP Arroyo is 597 vs LHP Gonzalez is 724 vs LHP

Renfroe 717 vs RHP Arroyo is 678 vs LHP Gonzalez is 732 vs RHP

 

I guess I should have just put in Gonzalez, but Arroyo vs Renfroe/Cordero bad split is closer than you'd like. Kiké in CF. Arroyo at 2B. Marwin is super sub.

[Bellhorn04]

If you make the assumption that games will end at a random spot in the lineup, then one can assume that a spot in the order will be the final AB of the game 18 times a season.

 

So....

 

The 1 spot will have 18 more ABs than the 2 spot as the game will end 18 times with their spot being the final AB

The 2 spot will have 18 more AB's than the 3rd spot, etc etc etc.

 

So, mathematically, the difference between 1 and 9 is about 144 PAs in a season. So it makes all the sense in the world to have your best hitters bat in the 1 and 2 slot.

 

You're bang on.

[moonslav59]

141, that is.

 

My math skills are going downhill, fast!

[moonslav59]

Cordero 573 vs LHP Arroyo is 597 vs LHP Gonzalez is 724 vs LHP

Renfroe 717 vs RHP Arroyo is 678 vs LHP Gonzalez is 732 vs RHP

 

I guess I should have just put in Gonzalez, but Arroyo vs Renfroe/Cordero bad split is closer than you'd like. Kiké in CF. Arroyo at 2B. Marwin is super sub.

 

I added Chavis:

 

Cordero 573 vs LHP/ Arroyo is 597 vs LHP/ Gonzalez is 724 vs LHP/ Chavis .699 vs LHP

Renfroe 717 vs RHP/ Arroyo is 678 vs RHP/ Gonzalez is 732 vs RHP/ Chavis .740 vs RHPs (reverse split for Arroyo & Chavis)

[mvp 78]

I added Chavis:

 

Cordero 573 vs LHP/ Arroyo is 597 vs LHP/ Gonzalez is 724 vs LHP/ Chavis .699 vs LHP

Renfroe 717 vs RHP/ Arroyo is 678 vs RHP/ Gonzalez is 732 vs RHP/ Chavis .740 vs RHPs (reverse split for Arroyo & Chavis)

 

It just seems to make sense to platoon Cordero/Renfroe for most of the time and have Kiké play CF with Arroyo/Marwin/Chavis playing 2b.

[notin]

Cordero 573 vs LHP Arroyo is 597 vs LHP Gonzalez is 724 vs LHP

Renfroe 717 vs RHP Arroyo is 678 vs LHP Gonzalez is 732 vs RHP

 

I guess I should have just put in Gonzalez, but Arroyo vs Renfroe/Cordero bad split is closer than you'd like. Kiké in CF. Arroyo at 2B. Marwin is super sub.

 

I think I'd prefer the stability of Cordero full time in LF over getting Arroyo into the lineup. The .024 increase in OPS is really not worth it...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It just seems to make sense to platoon Cordero/Renfroe for most of the time and have Kiké play CF with Arroyo/Marwin/Chavis playing 2b.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Munoz become part of the multi-positional platoon squad, maybe at the expense of Arroyo or Chavis sometime this year. He's a hacker, but seems to make hard contact more than most Sox since last summer. Plus, we all know how current management feels about defensive versatility...

[mvp 78]

I think I'd prefer the stability of Cordero full time in LF over getting Arroyo into the lineup. The .024 increase in OPS is really not worth it...

 

Can Cordero stay healthy for 140 games?

[moonslav59]

Can Cordero stay healthy for 140 games?

 

Yes.

 

Will it be 2021?

 

IDK

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Munoz become part of the multi-positional platoon squad, maybe at the expense of Arroyo or Chavis sometime this year. He's a hacker, but seems to make hard contact more than most Sox since last summer. Plus, we all know how current management feels about defensive versatility...

 

Agreed.

 

Chavis and Arroyo will get every chance to win a more permanent spot of the roster. If either fails, give Munoz a second look-see.

[moonslav59]

It just seems to make sense to platoon Cordero/Renfroe for most of the time and have Kiké play CF with Arroyo/Marwin/Chavis playing 2b.

 

I've said this all along.

[Bellhorn04]

Bobby "Upper Deck" Dalbec.