2021 Spring Training Discussion

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I've been saying EHern is our best defensive CF'er almost from the day we signed him, but our second base options aren't all that great. I like Renfroe and Cordero better than Arroyo.

 

Even with EHern in CF, our overall defense is a minus.

 

Catcher: Vaz has some good metrics. I don't like the way he handles the staff, but I'm not sure that's called "defense." Call this position a push or a slight plus.

 

1B: I have faith that Dalbec can be a plus, but until he shows he is, I'm leaving this one as a slight minus.

 

2B: Arroyo/Chavis? Minus. EHern? Maybe a push. Overall? Lucky to be a push.

 

3B: Devers has the potential to be a plus, this year. He has plus range and a strong arm. It's the arm accuracy that makes this position a minus, for now.

 

SS: People will argue with me, but he has some of the worst metrics over his career. At best, one could argue he's 18th or 20th out of 30, but I'd disagree. Okay, okay, he makes the plays he gets to. I want a SS that gets to make plays others dream about. Minus.

 

LF: Maybe Renfroe & Cordero as a platoon can end up better than Beni. Push.

 

CF: Cordero? Lost of promise, but a minus. EHern in CF? A plus. Overall? Maybe a puch to a minus.

 

RF: Verdugo is a plus.

 

 

 

This may be a better question for the Realistic thread: Which of these guys will realistically be part of "the core of the next great team" that Bloom keeps saying he's looking forward to seeing materialize this summer? Or was he maybe to referring to call-ups like Duran and Downs after they're out of it...

[mvp 78]

This may be a better question for the Realistic thread: Which of these guys will realistically be part of "the core of the next great team" that Bloom keeps saying he's looking forward to seeing materialize this summer? Or was he maybe to referring to call-ups like Duran and Downs after they're out of it...

 

Currently on the roster:

Devers

Verdugo

Xander if he doesn't opt out

Sale

DHern

Houck

 

MiLB in order:

Downs

Casas

Duran

Mata

Ward

 

The next group of Gilberto Jimenez, Noah Song, Aldo Ramirez, Yorke and Bonaci could be pretty damn good too. I'm sure a few of the guys will flame out, but this group is stronger than what we've seen in a while.

[notin]

Currently on the roster:

Devers

Verdugo

Xander if he doesn't opt out

Sale

DHern

Houck

 

MiLB in order:

Downs

Casas

Duran

Mata

Ward

 

The next group of Gilberto Jimenez, Noah Song, Aldo Ramirez, Yorke and Bonaci could be pretty damn good too. I'm sure a few of the guys will flame out, but this group is stronger than what we've seen in a while.

 

Here's the thing

 

If you asked this same question in 2015, the list might include the following names: Swihart, Moncada, Margot, Owens, Cecchini, Kopech, Espinoza and Brian Johnson....

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Currently on the roster:

Devers

Verdugo

Xander if he doesn't opt out

Sale

DHern

Houck

 

MiLB in order:

Downs

Casas

Duran

Mata

Ward

 

The next group of Gilberto Jimenez, Noah Song, Aldo Ramirez, Yorke and Bonaci could be pretty damn good too. I'm sure a few of the guys will flame out, but this group is stronger than what we've seen in a while.

 

I'm more inclined to include your second group more than your first, because it may be three or four years before Boston is back in an ALCS. Maybe Devers or Verdugo will still be around, but probably Cora and Bloom will be gone (if current ownership remains true to form and hasn't sold). By then, fast movers from your third list could include Jimenez, Song, Yorke, with Matt Lugo starting at short and Juan Chacon in the outfield.

[mvp 78]

Here's the thing

 

If you asked this same question in 2015, the list might include the following names: Swihart, Moncada, Margot, Owens, Cecchini, Kopech, Espinoza and Brian Johnson....

 

Brian Johnson was solid, but didn't have the upside of any of the pitchers I mentioned. Moncada, Margot and Kopech seem to be legit MLBers. Swihart is a journeyman who was yanked off of C too early. Espinoza got injured. The only guy legitimately overhyped in that squad was Owens. Owens had a monster curve ball, but never figured out how to control it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Here's the thing

 

If you asked this same question in 2015, the list might include the following names: Swihart, Moncada, Margot, Owens, Cecchini, Kopech, Espinoza and Brian Johnson....

 

Agreed, but that would also be assuming no change at the top of the front office -- which, in Boston, is always a threat.

[mvp 78]

I'm more inclined to include your second group more than your first, because it may be three or four years before Boston is back in an ALCS. Maybe Devers or Verdugo will still be around, but probably Cora and Bloom will be gone (if current ownership remains true to form and hasn't sold). By then, fast movers from your third list could include Jimenez, Song, Yorke, with Matt Lugo starting at short and Juan Chacon in the outfield.

 

4 years from now, Sale will still be under contract. All the other guys could be extended prior to then. Xander should just be a guy that is here for the rest of his career.

[notin]

I'm more inclined to include your second group more than your first, because it may be three or four years before Boston is back in an ALCS. Maybe Devers or Verdugo will still be around, but probably Cora and Bloom will be gone (if current ownership remains true to form and hasn't sold). By then, fast movers from your third list could include Jimenez, Song, Yorke, with Matt Lugo starting at short and Juan Chacon in the outfield.

 

This team has made two "worst to first" turn-arounds in the past 10 years.

 

Forecasting multiple years out is pretty much impossible in MLB, despite how often the fans and media try...

[mvp 78]

This team has made two "worst to first" turn-arounds in the past 10 years.

 

Forecasting multiple years out is pretty much impossible in MLB, despite how often the fans and media try...

 

Especially for teams that could jump to the highest payroll in the league without flinching.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This team has made two "worst to first" turn-arounds in the past 10 years.

 

Forecasting multiple years out is pretty much impossible in MLB, despite how often the fans and media try...

 

But- but- but...if we don't forecast, we're stuck talking about reality like ST errors and mercy innings where the Sox walk off the field because their pitchers can't get three outs.

[notin]

Especially for teams that could jump to the highest payroll in the league without flinching.

 

Exactly.

 

That's why I always hate when the media or fans say "this team is 2-3 years away from contending." How many p[eople thought that way after back-toback cellar finishes in 2014 and 2015? How many felt the team would go through a long rebuild after the Reset Button trade of 2012? Especially since the Sox unloaded some fairly good players and did not get back a single player who was a full time starters in MLB except the extremely mediocre James Loney. (It's not easy to be "extremely mediocre," but Loney did manage to pull it off.)

[mvp 78]

Exactly.

 

That's why I always hate when the media or fans say "this team is 2-3 years away from contending." How many p[eople thought that way after back-toback cellar finishes in 2014 and 2015? How many felt the team would go through a long rebuild after the Reset Button trade of 2012? Especially since the Sox unloaded some fairly good players and did not get back a single player who was a full time starters in MLB except the extremely mediocre James Loney. (It's not easy to be "extremely mediocre," but Loney did manage to pull it off.)

 

After 9/2011 - 9/2012, how many people thought the 2012-13 offseason mattered? I don't think too many people predicted rings that year (especially at the beginning of April when Papi was out with injury).

[notin]

After 9/2011 - 9/2012, how many people thought the 2012-13 offseason mattered? I don't think too many people predicted rings that year (especially at the beginning of April when Papi was out with injury).

 

Kimmi probably did...

[mvp 78]

Kimmi probably did...

 

I don't have access to the BDC archives.

[notin]

After 9/2011 - 9/2012, how many people thought the 2012-13 offseason mattered? I don't think too many people predicted rings that year (especially at the beginning of April when Papi was out with injury).

 

THe funny thing about the 2012-13 offseason was, the Sox went from unloading everything that was not nailed down to World Series Champions in just 14 months. And who was the biggest name they brought in? Napoli? Victorino? The only SP they brought in to shore up a staff that was 27th in MLB in ERA the year prior was Ryan Dempster. Hardly a savior...

[notin]

I don't have access to the BDC archives.

 

No one does. BDC removed access to them, much like how God removed access to Sodom and Gomorrah...

[mvp 78]

No one does. BDC removed access to them, much like how God removed access to Sodom and Gomorrah...

 

Pumpsie will always be the pillar of salt left behind.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Last decade, AL East... Boston: 4 firsts, 4 lasts; Orioles: 1 first, 4 lasts; Yankees: 3 firsts, 0 lasts; Jays and Rays: 1 first, 1 last.

 

World championships: Sox 2, everyone else 0.

 

How can anyone call Red Sox fans schizophrenic or bipolar?

[notin]

Pumpsie will always be the pillar of salt left behind.

 

Ah but you are unaware of the Legend of Andrewmitch. Dude blocked more people than Bruce Armstrong...

[mvp 78]

Ah but you are unaware of the Legend of Andrewmitch. Dude blocked more people than Bruce Armstrong...

 

He was not a shared user like Pumpsie or Fred.

[harmony]

Exactly.

 

That's why I always hate when the media or fans say "this team is 2-3 years away from contending." How many p[eople thought that way after back-toback cellar finishes in 2014 and 2015? How many felt the team would go through a long rebuild after the Reset Button trade of 2012? Especially since the Sox unloaded some fairly good players and did not get back a single player who was a full time starters in MLB except the extremely mediocre James Loney. (It's not easy to be "extremely mediocre," but Loney did manage to pull it off.)

Sounding like a Seattle Mariner fan.

[notin]

He was not a shared user like Pumpsie or Fred.

 

Maybe he was but he blocked everyone, including himself...

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe he was but he blocked everyone, including himself...

 

He was a big fan of DJ Drew.

[notin]

He was a big fan of DJ Drew.

 

And he distrusted any stats that JD put up good numbers in...

[oldtimer]

I watched today's game and noticed Devers does look like he is in much better shape, which is good news for the club. The way they did the show it was hard to tell who was pitching and who was playing what position and who was at bat. The managers seem to say Spring Training is aimed at getting the regulars ready to play and the pitchers a few innings. Generally, the others are playing for an opportunity to impress enough to get a roster spot.

[Kimmi]

My first preferred line-up had Kiki at lead off, and I got shot down.

 

The low career OBP does seem like a deal breaker. I haven't put him there since.

 

Kike should not be leading off, unless Cora knows some magic formula to vastly improve his OBP.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi ? I know Thad Ward made an error but sounds like he struck out Albies ? What was your impression on hi Siri stuff after an eventful inning dotting a guy too but clean inning .

 

I did not see the game. I am just commenting about things I've read.

 

I haven't had a chance to watch a ST game yet.

[Kimmi]

Prioritized the need to work on it was more like it.

 

Our D sucks, this year. We can work hard to make it suck less, but it sucks- badly.

 

Defense is my biggest concern at this point.

 

I am hoping that at the very least, Cora can work his magic with Devers. To me, Devers looked defeated last year.

[Kimmi]

Cora thinks more highly of Kike than his stats dictate.

 

I think more highly of Kike than I think most posters here do.

 

Even those who are not big into stats, however, are on board with the notion that a leadoff hitter has to have the ability to get on base at a good clip. His speed and energy aren't going to do the line up any good if he's making outs.

[Kimmi]

This is not what I like to hear.

 

Trust me, it's not something I like to say.