Who Should the Sox Have Play 2B in 2020?

[moonslav59]

Me either. The talk about Sox being interested in DJ is weird to me. More like they were doing due diligence at the start of FA period.

 

I don't think the old adage "drive up the price on the Yanks" holds much water, anymore.

[mvp 78]

I don't think the old adage "drive up the price on the Yanks" holds much water, anymore.

 

It was just a saying to make Sox fans feel better about perpetually looking up at the Yanks in the standings. BS then. BS now.

[moonslav59]

Assuming we don't sign those big 4 (or Ozuna): who are the best remaining players at our most needed positions?

 

SP: Tanaka or Odorizzi (or both?)/ Tier 2: Quintana, Paxton, Walker, Richards/ Tier 3: Lester, Porcello, Kluber

Closer: Hendricks, Bradley or Hand? (Could we sign 2?)/ T2???

CF: JBJ/ T2: Pillar/ T3: Marisnik

2B:Semien, Wong, La Stella/ T2: Profar, E Hernandez, B Miller/ T3???

RP: Rosenthal, Colome, Yates/ T2 Melancon/ T3 ???

 

[mvp 78]

Assuming we don't sign those big 4 (or Ozuna): who are the best remaining players at our most needed positions?

 

SP: Tanaka or Odorizzi (or both?)/ Tier 2: Quintana, Paxton, Walker, Richards/ Tier 3: Lester, Porcello, Kluber

Closer: Hendricks, Bradley or Hand? (Could we sign 2?)/ T2???

CF: JBJ/ T2: Pillar/ T3: Marisnik

2B:Semien, Wong, La Stella/ T2: Profar, E Hernandez, B Miller/ T3???

RP: Rosenthal, Colome, Yates/ T2 Melancon/ T3 ???

 

 

I'd take Tanaka and Kluber. Grab JBJ, but anticipate only getting Pillar. Sign Wong, but settle on a cheaper option like Hernandez. RP would be Colome and some other filler.

[notin]

Assuming we don't sign those big 4 (or Ozuna): who are the best remaining players at our most needed positions?

 

SP: Tanaka or Odorizzi (or both?)/ Tier 2: Quintana, Paxton, Walker, Richards/ Tier 3: Lester, Porcello, Kluber

Closer: Hendricks, Bradley or Hand? (Could we sign 2?)/ T2???

CF: JBJ/ T2: Pillar/ T3: Marisnik

2B:Semien, Wong, La Stella/ T2: Profar, E Hernandez, B Miller/ T3???

RP: Rosenthal, Colome, Yates/ T2 Melancon/ T3 ???

 

 

SP: Kluber and Odorizzi

RP: Hand and Bradley

2b: I like Wong, but if they sign Enrique or Cesar Hernandez, that is acceptable.

CF: If the Sox do not bring back JBJ, then the best remaining candidates are Pillar and DeShields. Can Chavis be dealt for a CF? (BTV would have Adam Hasely as the best equivalent.)

[mvp 78]

SP: Kluber and Odorizzi

RP: Hand and Bradley

2b: I like Wong, but if they sign Enrique or Cesar Hernandez, that is acceptable.

CF: If the Sox do not bring back JBJ, then the best remaining candidates are Pillar and DeShields. Can Chavis be dealt for a CF? (BTV would have Adam Hasely as the best equivalent.)

 

I haven't seen enough of DeShields for me to want him in CF. Just seems like an underwhelming option.

[moonslav59]

I'd take Tanaka and Kluber. Grab JBJ, but anticipate only getting Pillar. Sign Wong, but settle on a cheaper option like Hernandez. RP would be Colome and some other filler.

 

It would be interesting to assign a dollar to each player on this list and ask posters how they'd spend a finite number to fill all our needs.

 

I think Tanaka is probably better than Odorizzi, but I'm not sure he'd sign with us. To me, a realistic scenario might be Odorizzi, Kluber, Colome, Rosenthal & E Hernandez. (We find a CF'er by trade.)

 

I'd like to see this:

SP: Odorizzi (3 yrs)

SP: Lester (1 yr)

Closer: Hand (2-3 yrs)- maybe Bradley

2B: Hernandez not Wong (so we can afford Hand)

CF: Marisnik (plus trade for Kiermaier)

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd take Tanaka and Kluber. Grab JBJ, but anticipate only getting Pillar. Sign Wong, but settle on a cheaper option like Hernandez. RP would be Colome and some other filler.

 

I think there's almost as much of a chance of JBJ staying as LA trading us Betts' albatross contract and throwing in Josiah Gray as an incentive.

[mvp 78]

I think there's almost as much of a chance of JBJ staying as LA trading us Josiah Gray and throwing in Betts' albatross contract as an incentive.

 

Are you Lou Merloni?

[notin]

I haven't seen enough of DeShields for me to want him in CF. Just seems like an underwhelming option.

 

He is a bit underwhelming, but after Pillar and Bradley, he is probably the best remaining FA.

 

The Sox could also trade for an underwater contract for CF, giving up little and maybe taking back a player/prospect to even things up like they tried to with Wil Myers.

 

Some of the deals that might be available for CF include Inciarte (1 yr/ $9,ill with the Braves), Cain (2 yrs $34mill with the Brewers), Akiyama (2 yrs $15mill with the Reds), Fowler (1 yr $16.5 mill with the Cardinals), Myers (2 yrs $45mil; with the Padres), and Kiermaier (2 yrs $25.8mill with Rays) and possibly Blackmon (2 yrs $41.5 mill with the Rockies) and if the Sox are feeling truly generous, Jason Heyward (3 yrs $65mill with the Cubs for a player worth 3.7 fWAR since 2018).

 

A lot of those names have been bounced around all off-season, but are also all still available.

 

Inciarte seems like the most logical choice for a few reasons...

[moonslav59]

He is a bit underwhelming, but after Pillar and Bradley, he is probably the best remaining FA.

 

The Sox could also trade for an underwater contract for CF, giving up little and maybe taking back a player/prospect to even things up like they tried to with Wil Myers.

 

Some of the deals that might be available for CF include Inciarte (1 yr/ $9,ill with the Braves), Cain (2 yrs $34mill with the Brewers), Akiyama (2 yrs $15mill with the Reds), Fowler (1 yr $16.5 mill with the Cardinals), Myers (2 yrs $45mil; with the Padres), and Kiermaier (2 yrs $25.8mill with Rays) and possibly Blackmon (2 yrs $41.5 mill with the Rockies) and if the Sox are feeling truly generous, Jason Heyward (3 yrs $65mill with the Cubs for a player worth 3.7 fWAR since 2018).

 

A lot of those names have been bounced around all off-season, but are also all still available.

 

Inciarte seems like the most logical choice for a few reasons...

 

Also, maybe (not all CF'ers)...

-43 Upton

-35 Hicks

-21 Pollock

-18 McCutchen

-18 Castellanos

-14 Polanco

-13 Piscotty

-12 Grichuk

-8 Garcia

 

2B:

-41 Cano

-25 Odor

-20 Moustakas

-18 Kingery

 

SP:

-49 Bumgarner

-21 Cueto

-19 Greinke

-12 Cobb

-9 Duffy

-8 Roark

-7 Kikuchi

-4 Lyles

 

RP

-13 Familia

-11 Kimbrel

-11 Kelly

-9 A Miller

-4 Pomeranz

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by moonslav59

[notin]

Also, maybe (not all CF'ers)...

43 Upton

-35 Hicks

-21 Pollock

-18 McCutchen

-18 Castellanos

-14 Polanco

-13 Piscotty

-12 Grichuk

-8 Garcia

 

 

Exactly.

 

A lot of those acquisitions would move Verdugo to CF, but I am not so certain the Sox are necessarily opposed to that option.

 

I do not see the Sox acquiring Aaron Hicks for obvious reasons...

[moonslav59]

Exactly.

 

A lot of those acquisitions would move Verdugo to CF, but I am not so certain the Sox are necessarily opposed to that option.

 

I do not see the Sox acquiring Aaron Hicks for obvious reasons...

 

I doubt Pollock is available, either.

 

I don't think I want McCutchen or Polanco, unless we've already traded Beni.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He is a bit underwhelming, but after Pillar and Bradley, he is probably the best remaining FA.

 

The Sox could also trade for an underwater contract for CF, giving up little and maybe taking back a player/prospect to even things up like they tried to with Wil Myers.

 

Some of the deals that might be available for CF include Inciarte (1 yr/ $9,ill with the Braves), Cain (2 yrs $34mill with the Brewers), Akiyama (2 yrs $15mill with the Reds), Fowler (1 yr $16.5 mill with the Cardinals), Myers (2 yrs $45mil; with the Padres), and Kiermaier (2 yrs $25.8mill with Rays) and possibly Blackmon (2 yrs $41.5 mill with the Rockies) and if the Sox are feeling truly generous, Jason Heyward (3 yrs $65mill with the Cubs for a player worth 3.7 fWAR since 2018).

 

A lot of those names have been bounced around all off-season, but are also all still available.

 

Inciarte seems like the most logical choice for a few reasons...

 

If Bloom agrees to take Blackmon, the Rox would be required to throw in Jon Gray; I have a feeling this is the kind of deal he's aiming for in all his trade scenarios... and maybe that's why nothing has happened yet (since everyone seems to be waiting for big free agent dominoes to fall before acting).

[notin]

If Bloom agrees to take Blackmon, the Rox would be required to throw in Jon Gray; I have a feeling this is the kind of deal he's aiming for in all his trade scenarios... and maybe that's why nothing has happened yet (since everyone seems to be waiting for big free agent dominoes to fall before acting).

 

I would think that specific trade would have happened and the big holdup is Bloom is avoiding Blackmon and his .747/.987 home road splits, well, forever, because $41.5 million is a lot of money for a guy who would hit like Jackie Bradley but play CF like Jackie Gleason...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I would think that specific trade would have happened and the big holdup is Bloom is avoiding Blackmon and his .747/.987 home road splits, well, forever, because $41.5 million is a lot of money for a guy who would hit like Jackie Bradley but play CF like Jackie Gleason...

 

But think of the t-shirts sales. Chuck Nasty would be his own entire band of bearded brother.

[moonslav59]

Jon Gray is a huge question mark, too.

 

I'd rather trade for Kiermaier and Fairbanks, and my Chavis-Chatham offer, although counted as a massive overpay, was tongue and cheek.

 

I'd give Duran or Beni & Groome.

[Sox75]

or.... we could go ahead, ignore the cap, and simply focus on smart contracts with top quality players.

 

What the hell? Why not?

 

Instead, we let Mookie essentially walk, 100% BECAUSE past GM's made s*** long term contracts with risky players.

 

I would argue that the Sox need to worry less about the current cap and baked in BAD long term contracts, and sign no brainer great players.

 

I understand that no team has an unlimited cap, and that we have other serious needs, but I'd still argue that you can't pass on all great players. There is a huge cost to lost opportunity.

 

Right now, we're in the process of gutting our organization up the middle.

 

No legit CF, 2nd base, ...

A glaring double whole up the middle.

 

I don't thing this is a crazy prospect?

 

https://nesn.com/2021/01/dj-lemahieu-reportedly-frustrated-wants-to-reconnect-with-red-sox/

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

or.... we could go ahead, ignore the cap, and simply focus on smart contracts with top quality players.

 

What the hell? Why not?

 

Instead, we let Mookie essentially walk, 100% BECAUSE past GM's made s*** long term contracts with risky players.

 

I would argue that the Sox need to worry less about the current cap and baked in BAD long term contracts, and sign no brainer great players.

 

I understand that no team has an unlimited cap, and that we have other serious needs, but I'd still argue that you can't pass on all great players. There is a huge cost to lost opportunity.

 

Right now, we're in the process of gutting our organization up the middle.

 

No legit CF, 2nd base, ...

A glaring double whole up the middle.

 

I don't thing this is a crazy prospect?

 

https://nesn.com/2021/01/dj-lemahieu-reportedly-frustrated-wants-to-reconnect-with-red-sox/

 

DJ is great, but Bloom parting with over $100 million, a QO draft pick and a five-year roster commitment for a guy in his 30s would seem to go against everything this particular Baseball Officer has done so far...

 

The modern second base position -- where half the time the guy stands in right field, 15 feet behind first -- is such a low priority compared to the really good pitching the Red Sox so drastically need to be relevant again.

 

Plus, he's 6'4 -- and large Yankees historically break down every season.

Edited January 12, 2021 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[notin]

DJ is great, but Bloom parting with over $100 million, a QO draft pick and a five-year roster commitment for a guy in his 30s would seem to go against everything this particular Baseball Officer has done so far...

 

The modern second base position -- where half the time the guy stands in right field, 15 feet behind first -- is such a low priority compared to the really good pitching the Red Sox so drastically need to be relevant again.

 

Not to mentiion, it's very possible (re:likely) LeMahieu and his agent are just using the Red Sox to rekindle some interest from the Yankees. DJ reportedly wants to return to NY, so other team would he/his agent need to re-enter the bidding to catch the attentio of the Yankee brass?

[moonslav59]

DJ is great, but Bloom parting with over $100 million, a QO draft pick and a five-year roster commitment for a guy in his 30s would seem to go against everything this particular Baseball Officer has done so far...

 

The modern second base position -- where half the time the guy stands in right field, 15 feet behind first -- is such a low priority compared to the really good pitching the Red Sox so drastically need to be relevant again.

 

Plus, he's 6'4 -- and large Yankees historically break down every season.

 

I'm not so sure DJ will be all that "great" going forward.

 

We shouldn't spend large and long just because we can or because we need to improve, badly.

 

This year's best FAs just don't seem like the types of players worthy of large and long deals.

 

Also, there are other ways to spend. We can probably get some very good players or prospects by taking on someone's bad contract player. That might be better than spending big on free agents far from worth what they will be getting.

 

Bauer does not have the pedigree Price had when we signed him, and yet people want us to go large and long on him?

 

Springer does not look as good as Carl Crawford did, either.

 

DJ? I think not.

 

We can get good quality free agents without going top tier. Trade for some top quality (and some salary to minimize the return) and grow the team in a steady manner.

 

We are not a Chris Sale away from a ring. Let's not act like we are and be foolish by going all in for 2021.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather Wong over DJ. I think Wong will age better and his defense will provide a lot of value even when his bat declines.

[notin]

Agree. Pass on DJ for $100+ mill.

 

LeMahieu has been worth 9.9 fWAR over the past 3 seasons. Kolten Wong has been worth 7.9 fWAR in that same time frame. I would be extremely surprised if Wong's contract wound up being anywhere 79% of DJLM's.

 

In that same time frame, Cesar Hernandez has been worth 5.8 fWAR. Again, doubtful he find anything anywhere near 58% of what DJLM wants. And neither Hernandez nor Wong will cost a draft pick.

 

If LeMahieu was the one missing piece to building a championship, that is one thing. But as he cannot pitch, he is not the top priority.

[moonslav59]

I'd rather Wong over DJ. I think Wong will age better and his defense will provide a lot of value even when his bat declines.

 

Yes!

[moonslav59]

Agree. Pass on DJ for $100+ mill.

 

LeMahieu has been worth 9.9 fWAR over the past 3 seasons. Kolten Wong has been worth 7.9 fWAR in that same time frame. I would be extremely surprised if Wong's contract wound up being anywhere 79% of DJLM's.

 

In that same time frame, Cesar Hernandez has been worth 5.8 fWAR. Again, doubtful he find anything anywhere near 58% of what DJLM wants. And neither Hernandez nor Wong will cost a draft pick.

 

If LeMahieu was the one missing piece to building a championship, that is one thing. But as he cannot pitch, he is not the top priority.

 

Wasn't even thinking about the draft pick loss.

 

No brainer: pass on DJ.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd rather Wong over DJ. I think Wong will age better and his defense will provide a lot of value even when his bat declines.

 

The only thing is, if we have a Wong on the team, we also need a White.

[Bellhorn04]

Wasn't even thinking about the draft pick loss.

 

No brainer: pass on DJ.

 

In the future we will look back and say he was a wicked bargain signing for 2019-2020, and a horrible overpay signing for 2021-2024/5.

[moonslav59]

The only thing is, if we have a Wong on the team, we also need a White.

 

We could see two Wongs (Connor & Kolten), at some point, so we'd definitely need a Wright.

[notin]

The only thing is, if we have a Wong on the team, we also need a White.

 

Probably

 

We would have two Wong's, and they won't make a White....

[Bellhorn04]

Not that's why this is a great forum - you can make jokes like that and not have your account suspended or deleted for some perceived offense.