What's Happ

[Sox75]

https://www.facebook.com/124114250412/posts/10164748084985413/

 

This would be exciting!

 

Hope I didn't step on someone else's post! If so, remove this.

[Hugh2]

Given the state of our rotation, Happ would be a welcomed addition. Still, he's yet another year older and a guy who is probably not going to give you more than 175 innings next year. If the Sox are going to compete next year they need to strengthen the top of the rotation.

 

The reality is, there just isn't much of a market for pitching. So a guy like Happ strengthens the middle of your rotation, you improve the bullpen and hope for a good year from E-rod and a mid-year return from Sale. If all that happens and a WS is a possibility you can always dive into the trade market next summer and improve the top of the rotation (given an ace is available).

[notin]

I do hope at some point the Sox might consider a right-handed starting pitcher. You know, Fenway...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I do hope at some point the Sox might consider a right-handed starting pitcher. You know, Fenway...

 

I prefer the Sox continue being hapless... until they spend the reset money on somebody younger that will be part of a sustained contender's rotation (even if it's an extension for a pitcher acquired in a blockbuster).

[notin]

I prefer the Sox continue being hapless... until they spend the reset money on somebody younger that will be part of a sustained contender's rotation (even if it's an extension for a pitcher acquired in a blockbuster).

 

I'm telling you... Jameson Taillon.

 

He has had his issues, but he is a very talented pitcher with a few years of control and plays for a team on a very limited budget as he enters his arb seasons. And Bloom has had success acquiring those Pirates' former top prospects who just did not shine in Pittsburgh. (See Glasnow, Tyler)...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm telling you... Jameson Taillon.

 

He has had his issues, but he is a very talented pitcher with a few years of control and plays for a team on a very limited budget as he enters his arb seasons. And Bloom has had success acquiring those Pirates' former top prospects who just did not shine in Pittsburgh. (See Glasnow, Tyler)...

 

I'm buying, but is Ben selling? He knows he can't climb out of the cellar in Pitt by signing Ryan Dempsters.

[notin]

I'm buying, but is Ben selling? He knows he can't climb out of the cellar in Pitt by signing Ryan Dempsters.

 

I said a while back the Pirates would try to move Musgrove and Taillon and probably non-tender Trevor Williams (and Andy Frazier).

 

So far, thy have already DFA'd Williams.

 

They'll move Taillon. Strictly for financial purposes. Now what they want for him is another matter. (Jeter Downs for Taillon and Andy Frazier works on BTV. But is it worth it?)

 

I'm hoping the Sox do not further deplete their already weak assortment of minor league arms. Hold on to Mata!

[Bellhorn04]

I'm hoping the Sox do not further deplete their already weak assortment of minor league arms. Hold on to Mata!

 

Next thread name: What'sa Mata?

[Hugh2]

Mata is interesting as his profile has changed over the years.

 

Earlier he was considered a back of the rotation starter pitcher because he had a good feel for pitching and he had a nice 4 pitch mix. But seeing how he didn't have that one dominant pitch or velocity he didn't really profile as a guy who you can move to the bullpen if he fails as a starter.

 

Fast forward a few years and he's added a slider and added velocity. Now I think his ceiling is a little higher, but so is his floor as a late inning reliever. I've always been intrigued as Mata, but......I've learned over the years to not fall in love with Boston Pitching prospects.

[moonslav59]

Next thread name: What'sa Mata?

 

Or, Que Casas?

 

Su Casas es mi Casas.

[moonslav59]

Next thread name: What'sa Mata?

 

What's goin' Downs?

[moonslav59]

What's Wong with you?

[Sox75]

LOL :0 well played Moon

[notin]

Next thread name: What'sa Mata?

 

And as you undoubtedly know, Whattsamata U is the alma mater of which famous cartoon character?

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you guessed Bullwinkle, you are correct...

[dgalehouse]

A 38 year old southpaw that the Yankees no longer want around. That is not exactly the model for building a perennial contender. However , Happ does offer more opportunities for those who like to fool around with players names in a derogatory manner.

[Larry Cook]

Any major league calibre pitching help is good pitching help! We are beyond desperate!

[Sox75]

Yes. I would much prefer to go after young pitching talent starting to bloom, but I don't see many teams willing to deal that kind of pitching talent?

[harmony]

I said a while back the Pirates would try to move Musgrove and Taillon and probably non-tender Trevor Williams (and Andy Frazier).

 

So far, thy have already DFA'd Williams.

 

They'll move Taillon. Strictly for financial purposes. Now what they want for him is another matter. (Jeter Downs for Taillon and Andy Frazier works on BTV. But is it worth it?)

 

I'm hoping the Sox do not further deplete their already weak assortment of minor league arms. Hold on to Mata!

The Red Sox and Seattle Mariners are likely suitors for Joe Musgrove and Jameson Taillon.

[oldtimer]

Yes. I would much prefer to go after young pitching talent starting to bloom, but I don't see many teams willing to deal that kind of pitching talent?

 

Let's develop what we have. It is very difficult to obtain top pitching prospects from other teams. Bloom took a chance on a guy like Pivetta and that is probably the best we can do with lower cost pitchers with talent. He had to take a risk with the history of flaws. One right guess of that type can really help the team.

[notin]

The Red Sox and Seattle Mariners are likely suitors for Joe Musgrove and Jameson Taillon.

 

Agreed.

 

And the Mariners are better positioned if/when the Rays make Blake Snell available, since the Seattle farm is better and they're not in the AL East.

 

In fact, the Red Sox might be better positioned to get Taillon and/or Musgrove, since our farm has no untouchables. Sometimes these GMs focus a bit too much on the top tier guys and walk away if they cannot pry them loose. If you think about it, that's how Musgrove got to Pittsburgh in the first place, isn't it? (Hint: The Yankees refusal to part with Gleyber Torres.) So if Cherington insists on Kelenic and /or Dunn, it really helps out the Sox...

[Larry Cook]

The Red Sox and Seattle Mariners are likely suitors for Joe Musgrove and Jameson Taillon.

 

Musgrove has some decent analytics. He is a guy that could thrive in our organization.

[Sox75]

Going with Houck sounds even better.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/tanner-houcks-debut-leaves-red-sox-fascinated-see-what-comes-next

[Larry Cook]

Going with Houck sounds even better.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/tanner-houcks-debut-leaves-red-sox-fascinated-see-what-comes-next

 

Why does it have to be one or the other?

[Sox75]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

Definitely not. Both would be great... maybe?

But, what do we have to give up to pick up that 1 year $17M contract to get him.

 

I have no problem going 4 years on a quality pitcher.

 

1 year is no risk, unless the Yankees want a big return on their investment. I assume they would want something substantial? If they can pick up Happ & give up next to nothing, I say we do both. OBVIOUSLY, the Sox are desperate for pitching. Who knows how long it takes to get Sale back? Yes. We got a World Series with Price & Sale, but right now they both look like major busts.

 

It's a tough pitchers market out there, but we've got to put something together to anchor this starting rotation.

[moonslav59]

Musgrove has some decent analytics. He is a guy that could thrive in our organization.

 

I might prefer 2 years of Taillon over 2 arb years of Musgrove, but I think, if we take on Polanco's contract with any deal we make with the Pirates, the return would not have to be all that much.

 

Polanco is owed $11.6M/1.

Musgrove has 1 arb year left (est at $3.75M).

Taillon has 2 arb years left (est at $2.25M).

 

Trade Values:

Musgrove 36.4

Taillon 20.3

Polanco -13.5

 

The trade values site accepted these deals:

 

Chavis for Polanco & Taillon

 

Duran, Chavis and Groome for Polanco & Musgrove.

 

Dalbec, Duran, Chatham, Ward & Groome for Polanco, Musgrove & Taillon

 

[Noles_1335]

No chance we give up those bats and potential for the piss poor bat of Polanco and big question mark that is Musgrave.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I might prefer 2 years of Taillon over 2 arb years of Musgrove, but I think, if we take on Polanco's contract with any deal we make with the Pirates, the return would not have to be all that much.

 

Polanco is owed $11.6M/1.

Musgrove has 1 arb year left (est at $3.75M).

Taillon has 2 arb years left (est at $2.25M).

 

Trade Values:

Musgrove 36.4

Taillon 20.3

Polanco -13.5

 

The trade values site accepted these deals:

 

Chavis for Polanco & Taillon

 

Duran, Chavis and Groome for Polanco & Musgrove.

 

Dalbec, Duran, Chatham, Ward & Groome for Polanco, Musgrove & Taillon

 

 

Mark me down for Option A; I can't see trading young pitching prospects for older pitchers with "upside" (translation: guys who have so far shown more downside, if not backside). Option C looks like a steal for Ben, with two potential position regulars -- maybe even in '21 -- and two future replacements on the mound.

 

Polanco is obviously the key to any deal, as Pitt desperately needs to delete his contract before another Covid season. Boston's reset budget can afford to absorb his $11.6M salary as the price to pay in order to upgrade the rotation. Polanco looks cooked, but maybe he can use a change of scenery -- like the one down the rightfield line in Yankee Stadium when he pinch-hits vs. a righty. According to bref (if I'm reading correctly), his deal has a team option buyout of $3M after next season, with another of $1M the year after...

[moonslav59]

No chance we give up those bats and potential for the piss poor bat of Polanco and big question mark that is Musgrave.

 

Chavis is likely a dud.

 

Groome & Ward have potential.

 

I like Dalbec, but getting both SP'ers is worth it.

 

I'd do any of these trades in a heart beat.

 

Polanco could be DFA'd and the trades would still be worth it. 2 years of either pitcher are worth what Polanco is being paid.

 

Out of the 124 pitchers with 400+ IP since 2026, here's how the two starters rank in these categories:

 

WAR

47. Taillon 9.5 (Bumgarner 9.8)

60. Musgrove 8.2 (Leake 8.6)

 

ERA-

42. Taillon 89 (same as ERod- Lester was 87)

84.Musgrove 104

 

xFIP-

34. Taillon 88 (Price 87/S Gray 88)

44. Musgrove 93 (Gausman & Quintana 93)

 

Musgrove looks better over the last 3 years (131 pitchers with 220+ IP)

 

WAR

35. Musgrove 6.6 (Tanaka 6.5/Porcello 5.9)

61. Taillon 4.7 (Price 4.8/ Yarbrough 4.6)

 

ERA-

31. Taillon 83 (same as Price)

75.Musgrove 101 (Gausman 101)

 

xFIP-

32. Taillon 89 (same as Price, Tanaka & Stroman)

54. Musgrove 94 (R Ray 94/ Happ 98)

[moonslav59]

Mark me down for Option A; I can't see trading young pitching prospects for older pitchers with "upside" (translation: guys who have so far shown more downside, if not backside). Option C looks like a steal for Ben, with two potential position regulars -- maybe even in '21 -- and two future replacements on the mound.

 

Polanco is obviously the key to any deal, as Pitt desperately needs to delete his contract before another Covid season. Boston's reset budget can afford to absorb his $11.6M salary as the price to pay in order to upgrade the rotation. Polanco looks cooked, but maybe he can use a change of scenery -- like the one down the rightfield line in Yankee Stadium when he pinch-hits vs. a righty. According to bref (if I'm reading correctly), his deal has a team option buyout of $3M after next season, with another of $1M the year after...

 

Musgrove and Tailon are still squarely in prime for both of their remaining arb years. I'm seeing recent improvement- not backsliding with both.

 

Taillon just turned 29 ten days ago. He had a 3.55 ERA and 1.169 WHIP from 2018-2019. Those numbers blow away any of our current and healthy SP'ers.

 

Musgrove turns 28 in five days. His 4.23 ERA and 1.205 WHIP also compares very well with our starters.

 

Both are in the meat of their prime years.

 

Neither are aces, but we need rotation depth and quality. I'd still seek a #1-2 type, but these trades do not use any of our best trading chips or cost all that much on our spending budget.

Edited November 28, 2020 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Duran, Mata, Chavis, Beni & Chatham

for

Taillon, Musgrove & Polanco