Alex Cora is back!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

My recommended free agent splash is Ozuna and Hand.

 

And then acquire a big name SP via trade...

 

I like Ozuna, but he'll just make a suspect defense worse -- because he or JD will have to play outfield on a regular basis. A guilty pleasure won't help a beleaguered pitching staff that can never afford to give away extra outs.

 

A big name SP trade means we will give away a big name regular; who? Bloom couldn't possibly move top prospects, could he?

 

As far as Correa -- if anyone can maximize his potential in a change of scenery, starting at his primetime age of 27, isn't it Alex Cora? And I say this assuming Bogie will still be here (unless he's the guy key in the big pitcher trade). Remember, on Cora's club in the World Baseball Classic, Correa played third in deference to Lindor at short.

[harmony]

I like Ozuna, but he'll just make a suspect defense worse -- because he or JD will have to play outfield on a regular basis. A guilty pleasure won't help a beleaguered pitching staff that can never afford to give away extra outs.

 

A big name SP trade means we will give away a big name regular; who? Bloom couldn't possibly move top prospects, could he?

 

As far as Correa -- if anyone can maximize his potential in a change of scenery, starting at his primetime age of 27, isn't it Alex Cora? And I say this assuming Bogie will still be here (unless he's the guy key in the big pitcher trade). Remember, on Cora's club in the World Baseball Classic, Correa played third in deference to Lindor at short.

Over at Baseball Trade Values notin posted the interesting proposed trade of Jeter Downs and Connor Wong to Tampa Bay for lefthander Blake Snell and center fielder Kevin Kiermaier:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-29736/

 

The Red Sox would most likely improve but Tampa Bay may have little interest in Downs, the 40th-ranked prospect, when the Rays have top middle infield prospects Wander Franco (No. 1) and Vidal Brujan (No. 41). Wong ranks 19th in a pedestrian Boston farm system.

 

Top 100 Baseball Prospects | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

[notin]

Over at Baseball Trade Values notin posted the interesting proposed trade of Jeter Downs and Connor Wong to Tampa Bay for lefthander Blake Snell and center fielder Kevin Kiermaier:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-29736/

 

The Red Sox would most likely improve but Tampa Bay may have little interest in Downs, the 40th-ranked prospect, when the Rays have top middle infield prospects Wander Franco (No. 1) and Vidal Brujan (No. 41). Wong ranks 19th in a pedestrian Boston farm system.

 

Top 100 Baseball Prospects | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

 

By that logic, Tampa made a mistake by acquiring Randy Arozarena, since they already had two established centerfielders in Kiermaier and Margot.

 

Stockpiling prospects is not a bad strategy for Tampa. They would have very little difficulty flipping Downs or dealing Brujan...

[notin]

And didn’t you like my 3 way trade on there with Tampa and Cleveland?

 

Tampa gets Vazquez

Cleveland gets Meadows

Boston gets Civale

[notin]

I like Ozuna, but he'll just make a suspect defense worse -- because he or JD will have to play outfield on a regular basis. A guilty pleasure won't help a beleaguered pitching staff that can never afford to give away extra outs.

 

A big name SP trade means we will give away a big name regular; who? Bloom couldn't possibly move top prospects, could he?

 

As far as Correa -- if anyone can maximize his potential in a change of scenery, starting at his primetime age of 27, isn't it Alex Cora? And I say this assuming Bogie will still be here (unless he's the guy key in the big pitcher trade). Remember, on Cora's club in the World Baseball Classic, Correa played third in deference to Lindor at short.

 

Why not move Downs for pitching?

 

He was never the top target in the Betts trade; just a guy they settled for when things didn’t work out...

[harmony]

And didn’t you like my 3 way trade on there with Tampa and Cleveland?

 

Tampa gets Vazquez

Cleveland gets Meadows

Boston gets Civale

Each of your trade proposals elicits a reaction.

 

Has Tampa Bay maintained its rumored interest in Christian Vasquez? The Red Sox would be fortunate to land Aaron Civale, the righthander out of Northeastern University.

[moonslav59]

Each of your trade proposals elicits a reaction.

 

Has Tampa Bay maintained its rumored interest in Christian Vasquez? The Red Sox would be fortunate to land Aaron Civale, the righthander out of Northeastern University.

 

They haven't added a significant catcher since they apparently wanted Vaz earlier this year.

[Tedballgame]

Cora must really like Boston. The team he left is not the team he has rejoined. Nothing like coming off a suspension for cheating and coming back into a full blown rebuild

 

Sure he loves Boston. Unlike the Yankees, they have won World Series Titles in the last 11 years!

[notin]

They haven't added a significant catcher since they apparently wanted Vaz earlier this year.

 

By earlier this year, you mean three months ago...

[Bellhorn04]

Why not move Downs for pitching?

 

He was never the top target in the Betts trade; just a guy they settled for when things didn’t work out...

 

Not sure if 'settled for' is a fair statement.

[notin]

Not sure if 'settled for' is a fair statement.

 

Do you prefer I refer to him as Plan B? We know he wasn’t Plan A...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why not move Downs for pitching?

 

He was never the top target in the Betts trade; just a guy they settled for when things didn’t work out...

 

I'd do it. I have to say I'm skeptical about a "top prospect" who hasn't played past Double A and has already been in three MLB organizations. He's obviously touchable.

 

Seriously, the only guys in the Sox' Top Ten list (per Globe) I wouldn't trade yet are Casas, who from reports might be a hitter and not just an all-or-nothing slugger, Mata, because, well, we need one future/almost-now starter, and Yorke, who should get three or four pro years of development so we can find out if Bloom and Co. really discovered that rare gem in a rockpile.

[Bellhorn04]

Do you prefer I refer to him as Plan B? We know he wasn’t Plan A...

 

Plan A was Graterol - as a starter.

 

Bloom preferred Downs over Graterol as a reliever.

 

Downs has a higher value than Graterol on Baseball Trade Values.

 

Those are the only real pertinent facts that I can see.

[notin]

Plan A was Graterol - as a starter.

 

Bloom preferred Downs over Graterol as a reliever.

 

Downs has a higher value than Graterol on Baseball Trade Values.

 

Those are the only real pertinent facts that I can see.

 

So... you admit he was Plan B?

[Bellhorn04]

So... you admit he was Plan B?

 

Sure. But so what? Bloom realized that Downs actually had a higher value than Graterol, so he came out ahead on the deal.

[notin]

I'd do it. I have to say I'm skeptical about a "top prospect" who hasn't played past Double A and has already been in three MLB organizations. He's obviously touchable.

 

Seriously, the only guys in the Sox' Top Ten list (per Globe) I wouldn't trade yet are Casas, who from reports might be a hitter and not just an all-or-nothing slugger, Mata, because, well, we need one future/almost-now starter, and Yorke, who should get three or four pro years of development so we can find out if Bloom and Co. really discovered that rare gem in a rockpile.

 

I’m ok with moving Casas or Downs, preferably not both...

Edited November 15, 2020 by notin

[notin]

Sure. But so what? Bloom realized that Downs actually had a higher value than Graterol, so he came out ahead on the deal.

 

But the Sox need to address a massive pitching defiency.

 

The free agent market offers very little in the way of starters after Bauer.

 

The non-tender market might be better than usual, but still won’t have the caliber of pitcher the Sox need.

 

The trade market might be ripe, but the Sox do need someone to trade. If not Downs, who?

[notin]

Sure. But so what? Bloom realized that Downs actually had a higher value than Graterol, so he came out ahead on the deal.

 

Also bear I mind those values can and do change. Go look at Maeda’s value now...

[Bellhorn04]

Also bear I mind those values can and do change. Go look at Maeda’s value now...

 

Of course. Just talking about the values at the time of the trade.

[moonslav59]

Sure. But so what? Bloom realized that Downs actually had a higher value than Graterol, so he came out ahead on the deal.

 

Do you think Bloom originally asked for Downs or Graterol?

 

Maybe he did ask for Downs, was turned down, then after the Graterol physical, he got LA to agree to Downs. Maybe Downs was plan B all along.

 

Was Wong part of the original deal?

 

[dgalehouse]

Too soon to judge the switch in the return for Mookie. So far , Graterol has a World Series ring , while Downs has played just eleven games at AA. If everything works out ideally for both of them , an All Star shortstop would certainly be more valuable than even a lights out closer. But that is a big if. Right now , the most memorable thing about Downs is his first name. I think it is fair to say that neither of them will ever be in the same category as Betts.

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think Bloom originally asked for Downs or Graterol?

 

It was widely reported, I think, that the original deal was for Graterol, but something in the medical records indicated that Graterol was not suited to be a starter.

[moonslav59]

It was widely reported, I think, that the original deal was for Graterol, but something in the medical records indicated that Graterol was not suited to be a starter.

 

Yes, my question was that during the prior negotiations, is there any indication of Bloom asking for Downs, first?

 

I agree with what your point about Bloom thinking Downs was a higher value than a "broken" Graterol, but I think he wanted a healthy Graterol over Downs at the start.

 

Did we get Wong as a sweatner for not getting a healthy Graterol,or was he part of the Graterol return to begin with?

Edited November 15, 2020 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, my question was that during the prior negotiations, is there any indication of Bloom asking for Downs, first?

 

I agree with what you dais about Bloom thinking Downs was a higher value than a "broken" Graterol, but I think he wanted a healthy Graterol over Downs at the start.

 

Did we get Wong as a sweatner for not getting a healthy Graterol,or was he part of the Graterol return to begin with?

 

1. No

2. Yes

3. No idea

[moonslav59]

1. No

2. Yes

3. No idea

 

On the third point, I don't think Wong was part of the original deal, so Bloom felt Wong was needed to bring the total value up to what he felt a healthy Graterol was worth.

 

Downs+Wong=healthy Graterol

 

That hints at the feeling that Bloom did NOT value Downs as higher than Graterol- even a healthy one.

 

Now, one could argue maybe Bloom had LA over a barrel and got them to throw in Wong, even though he may have taken just Downs.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

According to Cora, one path to improvement for the Sox is "to catch up with the speed of the game". He mentioned areas like defense and baserunning, and an overall lack of depth on the roster in '19 and '20.

 

Checking one aspect of speed -- stolen bases -- reveals a stark contrast in offensive strategy from '18 to '19. The champs were third in the MLB with 125 steals, and then only 17th the next year with 68 (they were 11th in the short season). What may be most telling is that every key baserunner had his number of swipes basically cut in half; here are '18/'19 SB totals: Betts 30/16, Beni 21/10, JBJ 17/8, Bogie 8/4.

 

It almost seems "restgate" extended beyond the pitching staff. But stealing bases was certainly contagious in '18, as guys like Nunez, Holt, and Kinsler nabbed 7 each, while Swihart and even JD stole 6 apiece. Whereas nine Red Sox stole 6 or more in '18, only four players had as many as 6 in '19.

 

In '20 the SB leader was Bogie with 8, then JBJ 5, followed by Verdugo and Vazquez 4 each. We won't replace Mookie, and it's not just about getting younger (can't steal first). But hopefully a hustling mindset can be reinstilled, if not reinstalled.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Will Venable - viewed as a rising star in the coaching ranks with a bright managerial future - chosen as Alex Cora’s next bench coach

[notin]

According to Cora, one path to improvement for the Sox is "to catch up with the speed of the game". He mentioned areas like defense and baserunning, and an overall lack of depth on the roster in '19 and '20.

 

Checking one aspect of speed -- stolen bases -- reveals a stark contrast in offensive strategy from '18 to '19. The champs were third in the MLB with 125 steals, and then only 17th the next year with 68 (they were 11th in the short season). What may be most telling is that every key baserunner had his number of swipes basically cut in half; here are '18/'19 SB totals: Betts 30/16, Beni 21/10, JBJ 17/8, Bogie 8/4.

 

It almost seems "restgate" extended beyond the pitching staff. But stealing bases was certainly contagious in '18, as guys like Nunez, Holt, and Kinsler nabbed 7 each, while Swihart and even JD stole 6 apiece. Whereas nine Red Sox stole 6 or more in '18, only four players had as many as 6 in '19.

 

In '20 the SB leader was Bogie with 8, then JBJ 5, followed by Verdugo and Vazquez 4 each. We won't replace Mookie, and it's not just about getting younger (can't steal first). But hopefully a hustling mindset can be reinstilled, if not reinstalled.

 

I think there is a difference between aggressive baserunning and speed. Aggressive baserunning is a bigger factor in steals...

[Bellhorn04]

@alexspeier

Will Venable - viewed as a rising star in the coaching ranks with a bright managerial future - chosen as Alex Cora’s next bench coach

 

Seems like more good news on the managerial front.

[notin]

Seems like more good news on the managerial front.

 

Also Venable is Plan B in case Cora still owns a trash can...