2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

The plan for the starting rotation sucked. The plan for 1b sucked. The lack of a third OFer sucked. If they were planning on Kiké playing CF, why not get a 2B?

 

You know the answer.

 

They planned on a Cordero-Renfroe-Verdugo-Duran OF and Kike-Arroyo at 2B.

 

You still didn't answer my question, which seems to happen often, lately.

 

Why not mention all the players we added?

 

Plus, you mentioned Perez, who we added, last year but not Pivetta.

[Kimmi]

The verdict so far is that he missed a very important stetch while the team was swooning. They are starting to dig a hole they may not be able to get out of.

 

Was the Ottavino trade worth it considering how close it got the Sox to the cap?

 

What the Richards deal a good deal?

 

Has Perez been worth his contract?

 

Was the plan the FO had for the OF a good one?

 

Are you ok with them not getting a veteran backup in the offseason?

 

Several people questioned the SP additions (as always), the RP additions, the lack of a 3rd OFer, the lack of a reliable 1B.

 

Did you have these same opinions just a few weeks ago when the Sox were playing well?

 

I really don't have any issues with any of the moves that you mentioned here.

[mvp 78]

You know the answer.

 

They planned on a Cordero-Renfroe-Verdugo-Duran OF and Kike-Arroyo at 2B.

 

You still didn't answer my question, which seems to happen often, lately.

 

Why not mention all the players we added?

 

Plus, you mentioned Perez, who we added, last year but not Pivetta.

 

Perez had an option last year. It was not picked up. He was a FA acquisition this offseason.

[mvp 78]

Did you have these same opinions just a few weeks ago when the Sox were playing well?

 

I really don't have any issues with any of the moves that you mentioned here.

 

Yes, the Ottavino deal prevented them from making substantial moves at the deadline.

 

Richards has sucked all year.

 

Perez has sucked all year.

 

I never liked the plan for OF.

 

I wanted Schoop/Moreland ANYONE as a backup at 1B.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, the Ottavino deal prevented them from making substantial moves at the deadline.

 

Richards has sucked all year.

 

Perez has sucked all year.

 

I never liked the plan for OF.

 

I wanted Schoop/Moreland ANYONE as a backup at 1B.

 

Only one disagreement - Perez was good pre-Stickygate. Like Richards he's lost his grip since then.

[moonslav59]

Was the Ottavino trade worth it considering how close it got the Sox to the cap? If we stay under, the money part is not a big deal, unless it kept us from getting someone better. (We would likely have not traded promising prospects, anyway, so I'm not sure the money was the main reason we did little at the deadline.)

 

What the Richards deal a good deal? It sucked, but so did Kluber, who was the guy many felt we should have gotten, instead.

 

Has Perez been worth his contract? Easily, yes. His first 11 starts were priceless, and got us to the playoff slot we currently hold. He didn't need to be started so many times, recently. That's on Cora/Bloom.

 

Was the plan the FO had for the OF a good one? Better than "good." It was excellent and still is, IMO.

 

Are you ok with them not getting a veteran backup in the offseason? Yup, considering the budget and counting on Houck & Seabold as depth.

 

Several people questioned the SP additions (as always), the RP additions, the lack of a 3rd OFer, the lack of a reliable 1B.

 

I did, too, but with a limited budget, Bloom had to roll the dice at the positions he thought could get by in-house. Not all did.

 

1B: Dalbec, Marwin> Failed

OF: 3rd OF'er was Cordero> Failed/ 4th was Kike (Arroyo at 2B)> Worked

SP: Worked for 2.5 months, then failed, and now is showing some renewed hope.

RP: Far exceeded expectations, until just recently.

[mvp 78]

If this is all we're doing, I might have to jump in with the crowd saying things like "How lovely-trading Mookie freed up room for Garrett Richards, Adam Ottavino and Kike Hernandez!"

 

2/4/21

[moonslav59]

Only one disagreement - Perez was good pre-Stickygate. Like Richards he's lost his grip since then.

 

I guess Bloom was supposed to know Manfred mania was going to kill those two, midseason.

[mvp 78]

Duran is not viable in CF right now. His defense is not consistently good yet.

 

^ 2/4/21

[Bellhorn04]

Was the plan the FO had for the OF a good one? Better than "good." It was excellent and still is, IMO.

 

What plan was that?

[Bellhorn04]

I guess Bloom was supposed to know Manfred mania was going to kill those two, midseason.

 

According to Manfred he was issuing warnings left and right about spin rates and sticky stuff and a crackdown. So I don't think Bloom could have been entirely oblivious of the issue.

[moonslav59]

What plan was that?

 

To not go over the tax line, so we'll be much better positioned in 2022, 2023 and 2024.

 

To not trade away any highly promising prospects.

 

To try and at least appear to be competitive in 2021, so fans would watch the games.

 

Win.

Win.

Win.

 

[mvp 78]

Did we not sign Richards, Hernandez & Ottavino (okay add Renfroe, too) with the budget space left open by the loss of the Betts contract?

 

The reality is doom & gloom.

 

This is the cliff you and many of us knew was coming.

 

Why sugar coat it now?

 

That being said, I do think "the cliff" is not as bad as I thought it would be. I see us with an outside chance at making the playoffs, especially if we add a few more low cost pieces, but are the players we just added what you had in mind as what we'd be replacing Betts with?

 

I expected better, but I aslo expected us going over the tax line, this year. I can understand pushing it back a year, but I wasn't expecting this, when we traded Betts.

 

Is this still the cliff?

 

2/4/21

[moonslav59]

Is this still the cliff?

 

2/4/21

 

Before the year started, I thought it was going to be, and I think Bloom did, too. That's why Dalbec and Cordero were given long leashes, and Perez and Richards were give 1 year + option deals.

 

The argument is over whether the plan should have changed after our unexpected good start to 2021.

 

I say, no. It wasn't the time to go all in, because the roster had too many holes to fill to become a major contender. (I'm not part of the playoffs are a crapshoot club.)

[Bellhorn04]

To not go over the tax line, so we'll be much better positioned in 2022, 2023 and 2024.

 

To not trade away any highly promising prospects.

 

To try and at least appear to be competitive in 2021, so fans would watch the games.

 

Win.

Win.

Win.

 

 

??? This was about the outfield plan. I think you misread something.

[notin]

Yes, the Ottavino deal prevented them from making substantial moves at the deadline.

 

Richards has sucked all year.

 

Perez has sucked all year.

 

I never liked the plan for OF.

 

I wanted Schoop/Moreland ANYONE as a backup at 1B.

 

There is also a difference in asking if Perez has sucked or not or if he’s worth his contract. What did you expect one a one year $5mill deal?

 

Most players signing similar deals this off-season - Chris Archer, Kohei Arihara, JA Happ, Jon Lester - are having far worse seasons. Only Anthony Desclafini (2.0 fWAR) is doing better than Perez.

 

Fangraphs currently has Perez worth $4.1 mill this season, putting him on more than pace to be worth his $5mill contract…

Edited August 13, 2021 by notin

[mvp 78]

There is also a difference in asking if Perez has sucked or not or if he’s worth his contract. What did you expect one a one year $5mill deal?

 

Most players signing similar deals this off-season - Chris Archer, Kohei Arihara, JA Happ, Jon Lester - are having far worse seasons. Only Anthony Desclafini (2.0 fWAR) is doing better than Perez…

 

Then they should have signed Desclafini. Duh.

[mvp 78]

Only one disagreement - Perez was good pre-Stickygate. Like Richards he's lost his grip since then.

 

Fine. Perez is fine. Just underwhelming when the rest of the rotation takes a step back and you don't have depth.

[moonslav59]

??? This was about the outfield plan. I think you misread something.

 

I misread that point.

 

The OF plan was C0rdero, Verdugo & Renfroe with Kike as the 4th OF'er (Arroyo at 2B) and eventually Duran as mid season help.

 

It wasn't a horrible plan, until we saw how badly Cordero played, and how poorly Renfroe started in April on offense.

 

All along, I said Kike should play CF and the other 3 should platoon the other 2 slots, but that depended on Arroyo/Marwin doing well at 2B.

 

The plan failed with Cordero, but improved once Kike played CF.

 

Arroyo's injuries hurt the other part of the plan, and Marwin's offense destroyed a part of our offense, too.

Edited August 13, 2021 by moonslav59

[notin]

Then they should have signed Desclafini. Duh.

 

Stupid front office using stats and scouting and player evaluations when hindsight always works out so much better…

[Bellhorn04]

Fangraphs currently has Perez worth $4.1 mill this season, putting him on more than pace to be worth his $5mill contract…

 

Except his WAR is going backwards now LOL

[notin]

Except his WAR is going backwards now LOL

 

If that happens, he would wind yup not being worth the deal by their standards. But it still doesn’t change the question about what one should expect from a pitcher on a 1 yr $5mill contract…

[moonslav59]

There is also a difference in asking if Perez has sucked or not or if he’s worth his contract. What did you expect one a one year $5mill deal?

 

Most players signing similar deals this off-season - Chris Archer, Kohei Arihara, JA Happ, Jon Lester - are having far worse seasons. Only Anthony Desclafini (2.0 fWAR) is doing better than Perez.

 

Fangraphs currently has Perez worth $4.1 mill this season, putting him on more than pace to be worth his $5mill contract…

 

Perez had a 3.09 ERA after 11 starts (1/3 season) and was leading the starters, at that point. It was no fluke. Opps had a .658 OPS against by June 7th, despite a poor defense behind him and a .301 BAbip, at that date.

 

He still had a 3.89 ERA after 17 starts (1/2 season), but his OPS against had ballooned to .768 and his BAbip rose to .328.

 

He was at 4.18 on July 29th (20 starts).

 

He was supposed to be our 5th starter. He is not the reason ffor our troubles.

[Kimmi]

Yes, the Ottavino deal prevented them from making substantial moves at the deadline.

 

Richards has sucked all year.

 

Perez has sucked all year.

 

I never liked the plan for OF.

 

I wanted Schoop/Moreland ANYONE as a backup at 1B.

 

But weren't you in support of Bloom during the 1st half of the season?

 

I think these past few weeks have changed a lot of opinions.

[mvp 78]

But weren't you in support of Bloom during the 1st half of the season?

 

I think these past few weeks have changed a lot of opinions.

 

I will always support Bloom. However, I have disagreed with his offseason acquisitions over and over regardless of the team's standing. I disagree with the trade deadline, but understand his hands were tied based on the luxury tax imposed on him by ownership. It is possible to support the GM, but still be critical of them.

[mvp 78]

Except his WAR is going backwards now LOL

 

:(

[mvp 78]

Perez had a 3.09 ERA after 11 starts (1/3 season) and was leading the starters, at that point. It was no fluke. Opps had a .658 OPS against by June 7th, despite a poor defense behind him and a .301 BAbip, at that date.

 

He still had a 3.89 ERA after 17 starts (1/2 season), but his OPS against had ballooned to .768 and his BAbip rose to .328.

 

He was at 4.18 on July 29th (20 starts).

 

He was supposed to be our 5th starter. He is not the reason ffor our troubles.

 

No, the entire grouping of moves made from 10/19 - 8/21 is why we are where we are.

[Bellhorn04]

No, the entire grouping of moves made from 10/19 - 8/21 is why we are where we are.

 

Exactly. Big picture.

[notin]

I will always support Bloom. However, I have disagreed with his offseason acquisitions over and over regardless of the team's standing. I disagree with the trade deadline, but understand his hands were tied based on the luxury tax imposed on him by ownership. It is possible to support the GM, but still be critical of them.

 

Ok..

 

I’m less critical because for much of his moves, his hands are tied financially…

[Bellhorn04]

Ok..

 

I’m less critical because for much of his moves, his hands are tied financially…

 

OK but when you're Chaim Bloom, your forte is supposed to be finding the undervalued players.