A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[moonslav59]

I think moving Mata right now is a pretty dumb play. It would make more sense to move Houck as his stock may never be higher.

 

I don't think this is the year to put all your chips in though.

 

Me neither. I was just pointing out what it would likely take to get a deal done.

 

This would be the worst time to make a deal like this.

 

We are not a Luis Castillo away from being a top contender, and our farm needs to be strengthened not weakened.

[mvp 78]

Me neither. I was just pointing out what it would likely take to get a deal done.

 

This would be the worst time to make a deal like this.

 

We are not a Luis Castillo away from being a top contender, and our farm needs to be strengthened not weakened.

 

I think you get a Castillo 2-3 years from now most likely.

[notin]

Especially since the Reds already dumped Downs once before in the Puig trade. They're not taking him back for an ace pitcher. Yet, J.Downs (can't say his first name) would be the first prospect I'd part with. Casas is maybe the last.

 

WEll, they also "dumped" Josiah Gray in that deal, and I bet they'd take him back.

 

But the Sox just do not have the resources to get Castillo, Cincy interest in Downs or not...

[notin]

Yu Darvish (age: 34, 3 yrs $59million left) is reportedly available.

 

Certainly he was an ace last year, but will he be worth is for ages 35 through 37? At that point, probably better to have just kept Price...

[mvp 78]

WEll, they also "dumped" Josiah Gray in that deal, and I bet they'd take him back.

 

But the Sox just do not have the resources to get Castillo, Cincy interest in Downs or not...

 

Castillo/Votto for Casas/Hernandez is an overpay according to BTV.

[mvp 78]

Yu Darvish (age: 34, 3 yrs $59million left) is reportedly available.

 

Certainly he was an ace last year, but will he be worth is for ages 35 through 37? At that point, probably better to have just kept Price...

 

If they want to dump Heyward's contract, it'd be one way to go about it.

[Bellhorn04]

If they want to dump Heyward's contract, it'd be one way to go about it.

 

If you traded for Darvish and Heyward, you'd be taking on 44 mill in AAV.

[notin]

If they want to dump Heyward's contract, it'd be one way to go about it.

 

But why would the Sox (or any team) take on Heyward's deal (3 years $65 million) to get the declining years of Darvish without reaping the benefits of his good years?

 

That would invovle committing over $120 mill over the next 3 years to two players in their 30's whose best days are not only behind them, but were not really all that great when they were in them? (With Darvish's best years being muddled by various injuries., which are not likely to suddenly heal themselves as he ages.)

[mvp 78]

If you traded for Darvish and Heyward, you'd be taking on 44 mill in AAV.

 

Yup.

[mvp 78]

But why would the Sox (or any team) take on Heyward's deal (3 years $65 million) to get the declining years of Darvish without reaping the benefits of his good years?

 

That would invovle committing over $120 mill over the next 3 years to two players in their 30's whose best days are not only behind them, but were not really all that great when they were in them? (With Darvish's best years being muddled by various injuries., which are not likely to suddenly heal themselves as he ages.)

 

I didn't say the Sox should do it. I said packaging the two could get them off Cubs' payroll.

[notin]

I didn't say the Sox should do it. I said packaging the two could get them off Cubs' payroll.

 

I don't think any team should do it. I don't think the oft-injured and aging Darvish is sufficient enticement for the massively overpaid Heyward...

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think any team should do it. I don't think the oft-injured and aging Darvish is sufficient enticement for the massively overpaid Heyward...

 

Not unless the Cubs are kicking in cash and a prospect or two.

[Bellhorn04]

Who was the bumbling head of baseball ops who left the Cubs in this fix?

[notin]

Who was the bumbling head of baseball ops who left the Cubs in this fix?

 

I know. Wht a boob.

 

Of course, with every team in the NL Central slashing payroll, and the Cubs very likely hanging on to Darvish and Heyward, there might actually be a Default Post-Season birth in their immediate future...

[moonslav59]

Not unless the Cubs are kicking in cash and a prospect or two.

 

Agreed, or we send them Eovaldi & JD.

[mvp 78]

Who was the bumbling head of baseball ops who left the Cubs in this fix?

 

The greatest GM of all time.

[mvp 78]

The Carl Crawford signing was still worse. At least a portion of Heyward's value comes from playing defense.

[Bellhorn04]

Agreed, or we send them Eovaldi & JD.

 

That would send them back 39 mill in AAV. Kind of a swapping deck chairs on the Titanic thing.

[Bellhorn04]

The greatest GM of all time.

 

The Carl Crawford signing was still worse. At least a portion of Heyward's value comes from playing defense.

 

The same guy who did both of those.

[mvp 78]

The same guy who did both of those.

 

Ben Cherington won a WS and then decided to put Pablo AND Hanley on the books.

 

GM's are a land of contrasts.

[moonslav59]

That would send them back 39 mill in AAV. Kind of a swapping deck chairs on the Titanic thing.

 

Well, that was just part of the deal.

 

I'd expect the Cubs to send us something to balance that out- a player or two, a player and a prospect or a player and some cash.

[moonslav59]

Ben Cherington won a WS and then decided to put Pablo AND Hanley on the books.

 

GM's are a land of contrasts.

 

The big "do-over:" sign Scherzer instead of Pablito & HanRam.

 

(Then, we don't sign Price and spend that money elsewhere....)

[Bellhorn04]

Ben Cherington won a WS and then decided to put Pablo AND Hanley on the books.

 

Shall we do this one more time?

 

Sure, why not.

 

Aug 23/14 signed Rusney Castillo 72.5 mill

Nov 25/14 signed Pablo Sandoval 95 mill

Nov 25/14 signed Hanley Ramirez 88 mill

Total 255.5 mill

[mvp 78]

Shall we do this one more time?

 

Sure, why not.

 

Aug 23/14 signed Rusney Castillo 72.5 mill

Nov 25/14 signed Pablo Sandoval 95 mill

Nov 25/14 signed Hanley Ramirez 88 mill

Total 255.5 mill

 

Yes, that's how I remember it too.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, that was just part of the deal.

 

I'd expect the Cubs to send us something to balance that out- a player or two, a player and a prospect or a player and some cash.

 

I don't get the idea. If the Cubs are looking to shed payroll, they certainly aren't taking back JD and Eovaldi.

[notin]

I don't get the idea. If the Cubs are looking to shed payroll, they certainly aren't taking back JD and Eovaldi.

 

Well they both make less than Heyward and Darvish respectively, so they could take them both back and shave payroll. Just not as much

[Bellhorn04]

Well they both make less than Heyward and Darvish respectively, so they could take them both back and shave payroll. Just not as much

 

That would be a whopping 5 mill shaved off AAV.

[moonslav59]

I don't get the idea. If the Cubs are looking to shed payroll, they certainly aren't taking back JD and Eovaldi.

 

They save a lot- beyond AVV as Heyward has more years that JD and Eovaldi.

 

Also, they could maybe trade Eovaldi, afterwards.

 

I'm not saying they'd do this deal, but only offered up a way for them to get something in return rather than just pay cash, like the will probably have to do.

[moonslav59]

Here are some deals I threw together that were accepted by BTV. I'm not saying I am for all of them, but the theory behind each trade is that was can lessen the return by taking on a contract the other team wants to shed.

 

3 Way:

BOS: Taillon & Stallings

PHI: Vazquez & Chavis

PIT: Abel & Marchan

or

BOS: Eflin, Frazier & Stallings

PHI: Vazquez & Chavis

PIT: Chatham & Marcham

or

BOS: Taillon, Anderson, Stallings, Frazier, Kiermaier

TBR: Vazquez & Duran

PIT: Baz, Chavis, Chatham & Grullon

 

2 Team

 

BOS: Taillon, Frazier, Bell & Polanco

PITT: Beni, Chavis & Groome

 

BOS: Yarbrough, Fairbanks & Kiermaier

TBR: Chavis, Chatham & Ward

 

BOS: Anderson, Yarbrough, Kiermaier & Tsutsugo

TBR: Vaz, Beni & Bello

 

BOS: Riley, Inciarte, W Smith & Langeliers

ATL: Dalbec, Bello & Brannen

 

BOS: Muller, Wright, Wilson & Inciarte

ATL: Dalbec & Bello

 

BOS: Mancini, T Scott, Cobb

BAL: Beni, Ward, Chatham & Bello

 

BOS: Keller, D Duffy, Soler

KCR: Chavis, Chatham & Bello

 

BOS: Gurriel, Thornton, Kay, Roark & Grichuk

TOR: Beni, Chatham, Pivetta, Wilson & Bello

 

BOS: Manaea, Soderstrom, Neuse & Piscotty

OAK: Chatham, Groome, Arauz & Flores

 

BOS: Manaea, Soderstrom, Jeffries, Neuse & Piscotty

OAK: Duran & Chavis

 

BOS: Hader, Houser & Cain

MIL: Beni, Chatham & Groome

 

BOS: Hoerner, Rizzo, Baez, Wick & Heyward

Cubs: Chavis, Beni, Ward, Arauz & Eovaldi

 

BOS: Garcia, Antone & Castellenos

CIN: Ward, Groome & Chatham

 

BOS: Weaver, C Smith & N Ahmed

AZ: Ward, Groome & Chatham

 

BOS: Anderson & Kiemaier

TB: Chavis, Chatham & Groome

 

BOS: Gallo, Leclerc & Odor

TX: Duran & Ward

 

BOS: Conforto, Peterson, Nido & Familia

NYM: Vazquez, Beni & Chatham

 

BOS: V Reyez, Goodrum & Boyd

DET: Beni, Ward, Chavis & Arauz

 

BOS: Eflin, Abel, Hasely, Velasquez & Kingery

PHI: Vazquez, Chavis & Groome

 

BOS C Javier, J Jamez, R Pressly & Gurriel

HOU: Ward & Chavis

 

Also, I would not be surprised if every opposing GM said no to these deals. In some of these deals, I'd offer more than listed (needed on the BTV site) or take back one less piece,

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

Also, I would not be surprised if every opposing GM said no to these deals.

 

Ya, I wouldn't give up a promising young pitcher for any of those Red Sox players, either. We're pretty much screwed. The only prospects close to the bigs from Boston's entire system I'd insist on right now are Casas and Mata. Lower down -- and here's where Bloom has an edge over Dombro (as in push "end-call") -- I'd suggest Lugo, Yorke or Juan Chacon... as a throw-in.