Cora fired

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Shocked that I agree almost completely with this. MLB would have done well to work to keep guys like Hinch and Cora around.

 

I'm going to predict that when all facts come out -- about this era that will come to be known as a time when many teams and players used technology in many ways to get an edge --- the scapegoats will be -- maybe not exonerated -- but regarded as less culpable to some extent. It may not be in a year or two, when/if some are rehired or allowed back in the game, but maybe in a decade or two.

Edited January 15, 2020 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[jacksonianmarch]

I am going to make this point again just because it needs to be understood.

 

Organic sign stealing in baseball IS NOT EVEN CHEATING. Once you bring electronics and video into the picture using real time in game video whether with dedicated cameras or simply using the STUPID replay room and dugout monitors you have crossed the line and are 90% as dirty as it gets. It hardly matters after that if you have entrusted the output from all that effort to a runner on second base who's real responsibility is to get home from scoring position or have some elaborate covert or less than elaborate (knock on a trash can) overt method for communicating the output.

 

Frankly, I don't think entrusting that output which involves a quite detailed effort to a runner on second base makes a hill of beans of sense to me. If I had to guess, a more covert method of communicating the output was used. Even the output is fairly detailed in that you have got to nail the sequencing as well as the signs and the runner on second has to absorb that AND communicate it to the hitter.

 

Ironically it would appear possible that the biggest dif between a system using a dedicated camera system v the replay video room feed is that a team may have been able to continue post season because they were using a dedicated camera system. Using the replay video room feed does not work post season because its my understanding that the league puts league officials in those video rooms for the post season.

 

The evidence for Houston is in the replays. You can clearly hear the banging and it’s clear that it continued into the postseason

[jung]

The evidence for Houston is in the replays. You can clearly hear the banging and it’s clear that it continued into the postseason

 

Its in the results as well. Houston buried some of the best starting pitchers in baseball in the 2017 World Series.

 

There is no greater advantage in baseball and maybe in organized professional sports of any kind than a professional hitter knowing whether he is getting FB or offspeed/breaking pitch. Its a massive advantage to the hitter. All he has to concentrate on then is location. Its batting practice!

 

Lets not forget that Sox hitting went absolutely nuts in 2018. 4 grand salami's in April alone for example.

Edited January 15, 2020 by jung

[notin]

So you have what amounts to a whole team in Houston with a system engineered by Cora engaged in a year long if not longer scam to use electronics and in game, real time video to steal signs (cheat) and nobody in upper management at Houston knew? Putting your head in the sand IS waiting for somebody to start talking. Then you have the report itself which just splays Cora and goes on to more than suggest that Hinch's actions proved to players that "upper management" was acquiescent which is what opened the door to nailing Hinch and the GM by Ownership. Do you really thing that phrasing in the report was coincidental or simply a straight up analysis of evidence? THAT WAS AN OPINION. Ownership then takes an offered opinion and immediately fires Hinch and the GM effectively using that opinion in the report as the hammer. BULL s***!

 

Remember Hinch in anger took a baseball bat to the monitors twice during the course of the 2017 season. Do you really think that suggested to the players support for this mess from Hinch?

 

None of that has anything to do with Manfred...

[Bellhorn04]

None of that has anything to do with Manfred...

 

Not unless jung is right that Manfred went out of his way to absolve the owners from any culpability.

[mvp 78]

Not unless jung is right that Manfred went out of his way to absolve the owners from any culpability.

 

100% he did.

[harmony]

ESPN columnist Jeff Passan reports that other owners are unhappy:

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28477741/why-anger-boiling-scenes-houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments

[mvp 78]

Henry under oath: "I didn't think it was wrong, I thought it was a neat idea."

[jung]

Not unless jung is right that Manfred went out of his way to absolve the owners from any culpability.

 

When you read the report it is painfully obvious that Manfred is trying to completely insulate Houston ownership. You simply cannot miss that. Then Crane reciprocates by immediately firing Hinch and the GM as if doubling down on the Report's "opinion" regarding Houston Ownership.

 

I want to see the Sox Report when it comes out and put it side by side with the Houston Report. I very much now suspect after today's fiasco of a press conference that the Boston Report will also completely absolve Boston Ownership and bury Cora when in fact at the least the Sox had to know what they were getting into when the hired Alex. In fact, I would not be surprised to see a complete white wash of 2018 in spite of the Sox putting up phenomenal almost unbelievable offensive numbers in 2018.

 

What is alarming though not surprising is the degree to which MLB maintains this facade. When you are using real time in game video to steal signs giving hitters the benefit of knowing what is coming, FB or offspeed/breaking pitch, you have gutted the very core of the game. It is batting practice for professional hitters at that point. There is literally no sense in even playing the games.

 

Like I said before, the anchor chain has slipped on the good ship MLB and the anchor is about to crash through the keel and MLB from administration through ownership is putting on sunscreen so they don't get a sunburn.

[a700hitter]

Henry under oath: "I didn't think it was wrong, I thought it was a neat idea."

^Sarcasm?

[moonslav59]

I'm hearing a lot of things down here in H-town about how this sort of thing may have started as far back as 2014 with the Astros.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm hearing a lot of things down here in H-town about how this sort of thing may have started as far back as 2014 with the Astros.

 

That was what LoMo said.

[vegasbob]

No serious mention of 2019 where the Red Sox did not tear the cover off the ball. Was the video room still in full operation? If so, someone tell me how JDM , if he knew the coming pitch, still swung at so many low outside breaking balls? How did Mookie get off to a slow start and what happened to Benintendi ?

I realize the penalties and investigations revolve around the Sox in 2018, but the comparisons would be remarkable if it came out that Cora (or the players) dropped the program in 2019. Alternatively, if they were still getting pitches, why could they hit one year and not the next ? Interesting to see how that shakes out.

[notin]

Not unless jung is right that Manfred went out of his way to absolve the owners from any culpability.

 

That depends. At what point was Crane aware what was going on? Or Henry?

[jung]

No serious mention of 2019 where the Red Sox did not tear the cover off the ball. Was the video room still in full operation? If so, someone tell me how JDM , if he knew the coming pitch, still swung at so many low outside breaking balls? How did Mookie get off to a slow start and what happened to Benintendi ?

I realize the penalties and investigations revolve around the Sox in 2018, but the comparisons would be remarkable if it came out that Cora (or the players) dropped the program in 2019. Alternatively, if they were still getting pitches, why could they hit one year and not the next ? Interesting to see how that shakes out.

 

Entirely possible that Cora decided to go dark for 2019. They won it all in 2018 and he had to know that he was at the center of an investigation into Houston's 2017 Championship and likely had some issues to confront going from Houston to Boston, seeing Boston's 2018 offensive numbers go through the roof and winning it all in 2018. Would not surprise me in the least if Alex decided to go dark for 2019.

[jacksonianmarch]

Entirely possible that Cora decided to go dark for 2019. They won it all in 2018 and he had to know that he was at the center of an investigation into Houston's 2017 Championship and likely had some issues to confront going from Houston to Boston, seeing Boston's 2018 offensive numbers go through the roof and winning it all in 2018. Would not surprise me in the least if Alex decided to go dark for 2019.

 

I’m also wondering if the message got to the FO and they shut it down. It’s also entirely possible that the Sox started the year doing it and he shut it down when the pitching collapsed. The Sox cheating didn’t help the pitching at all, so maybe after the disastrous road trip to start the year he just unilaterally decided to close up shop

[S5Dewey]

I’m also wondering if the message got to the FO and they shut it down. It’s also entirely possible that the Sox started the year doing it and he shut it down when the pitching collapsed. The Sox cheating didn’t help the pitching at all, so maybe after the disastrous road trip to start the year he just unilaterally decided to close up shop

 

I'm wondering.... it's possible.... maybe....

 

Just more speculation coming from a poster who, 4 minutes before posting this, chastised a700 for speculating about the Yankees' involvement in cheating.