Chaim Bloom in as DD replacement

[Elktonnick]

I will be happy if Bloom can start us on the path to a better farm, keep us somewhat competitive and also start the process of recovering from DD's excesses. I do not believe all that can be done in a year or even two, but I want to see a positive direction. When we get closer to championship quality, we can spend the money after making the effort to reset first.

 

Make no mistake about it the current red sox team is a championship quality team with one or two additions. Henry's decision to move under the LT is his decision that will lead to the deconstruction of a championship team. Let's be clear about that.

[Bellhorn04]

Make no mistake about it the current red sox team is a championship quality team with one or two additions. Henry's decision to move under the LT is his decision that will lead to the deconstruction of a championship team. Let's be clear about that.

 

Any chances the Red Sox have to contend in 2020 depend heavily on the questionable health and effectiveness of SPE. (Might as well start using an acronym for Sale, Price and Eovaldi.)

[cp176]

I will be happy if Bloom can start us on the path to a better farm, keep us somewhat competitive and also start the process of recovering from DD's excesses. I do not believe all that can be done in a year or even two, but I want to see a positive direction. When we get closer to championship quality, we can spend the money after making the effort to reset first.

 

I agree with you for the most part but I think unfortunately that too many people want to find a villain for everything that went wrong for us this year. it appears that Dombrowski was chosen to fill that role. There is usually more than one way to get a job done. If our pitching had remained healthy, we all might be singing a different tune. There are too many people here who regardless of what they say, did not like the initial hiring of DD because of an infatuation for whatever reason with Ben Cherington. If, once again, the pitching staff had remained healthy there is reason to think that the future still held great promise. Once again, I think that the hiring of Bloom looks good but I really do think that there is too much emphasis here on the job of the GM. Our players need to play better.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We know that the Red Sox are totally overhauling their pitching management, that was started before Bloom was hired.

 

I must point out though, that our pitching, while awful in 2019, served us pretty well in 2018, including Price, obviously.

 

Bloom's strengths, as pointed out by others here, include locating, acquiring and stockpiling young affordable arms. As for the Big Three, maybe Sale and Price have peaked, with injuries and age taking their toll. But no matter how much Yankee fans hope they're done, a bounce-back from at least one wouldn't be shocking. We're talking about the AL's top two winners from 2012-18: Price 102, Sale 99; the latter also had the lowest ERA 2.91 and led in Ks.

 

The number one project for new coaches has to be Eovaldi, who returned from surgery throwing 100 with a 95 cutter and still got knocked around. I'd argue he was the Sox' most consistent and even most valuable player for the entire postseason in '18. Price threw three great games in a row -- his best in a Boston uniform -- so it's easy to forget he got crushed by NY and had a bad first start vs Houston. Eovaldi was great in any role, but his game in New York was the turning point. Two days after Judge played Sinatra in Fenway, Nate walked into Yankee Stadium in a tied series, with rabid fans hanging and banging over the walls, and was lights out. He has potential Cy Young stuff, and if the right teachers can help him, may turn out to be the best signing of any Sox starter. Remember, the runners-up in the bidding for Eovaldi were the Astros... and they seem to know their pitchers.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom's strengths, as pointed out by others here, include locating, acquiring and stockpiling young affordable arms. As for the Big Three, maybe Sale and Price have peaked, with injuries and age taking their toll. But no matter how much Yankee fans hope they're done, a bounce-back from at least one wouldn't be shocking. We're talking about the AL's top two winners from 2012-18: Price 102, Sale 99; the latter also had the lowest ERA 2.91 and led in Ks.

 

The number one project for new coaches has to be Eovaldi, who returned from surgery throwing 100 with a 95 cutter and still got knocked around. I'd argue he was the Sox' most consistent and even most valuable player for the entire postseason in '18. Price threw three great games in a row -- his best in a Boston uniform -- so it's easy to forget he got crushed by NY and had a bad first start vs Houston. Eovaldi was great in any role, but his game in New York was the turning point. Two days after Judge played Sinatra in Fenway, Nate walked into Yankee Stadium in a tied series, with rabid fans hanging and banging over the walls, and was lights out. He has potential Cy Young stuff, and if the right teachers can help him, may turn out to be the best signing of any Sox starter. Remember, the runners-up in the bidding for Eovaldi were the Astros... and they seem to know their pitchers.

 

Well said.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with you for the most part but I think unfortunately that too many people want to find a villain for everything that went wrong for us this year. it appears that Dombrowski was chosen to fill that role. There is usually more than one way to get a job done. If our pitching had remained healthy, we all might be singing a different tune. There are too many people here who regardless of what they say, did not like the initial hiring of DD because of an infatuation for whatever reason with Ben Cherington. If, once again, the pitching staff had remained healthy there is reason to think that the future still held great promise. Once again, I think that the hiring of Bloom looks good but I really do think that there is too much emphasis here on the job of the GM. Our players need to play better.

 

cp, a lot of fans love the blame game, and it's not just DD who has had the finger pointed at him for this year's failures. Cora has been raked on the coals pretty good for the spring training program and other issues. A few here have called for him to be fired too. And our pitching coaches have already been canned.

[S5Dewey]

Make no mistake about it the current red sox team is a championship quality team with one or two additions. Henry's decision to move under the LT is his decision that will lead to the deconstruction of a championship team. Let's be clear about that.

 

Thank you for pointing this out. It's what I've been thinking & alluding to all along. It's certainly JH's right to deconstruct this team - after all, he's the owner. However, he's deconstructing a team that's only a couple of pitchers comebacks away from another real run at a championship and trading it for a mediocre (at best) season.

 

I'm in hopes that this new GM will put a different spin on 2020, that the Sox can make another run at it. If they're successful JH will reap the playoff profits. If it's apparent that they're going to be unsuccessful by the trade deadline they can be sellers, fall in the standings, reap the draft pick and start the rebuild.

 

It seems a shame to waste this talent.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

"It seems a shame to waste this talent."

 

Right on. We have to trust that management understands this and even has formulas for windows for how long to go for it and the potential profits of more titles vs. investments, etc. It's also why astute Yankee fans are keeping their fingers crossed that a guy like Betts is traded. As a Sox fan, I would love it if New York dealt Judge for a haul of prospects that combined have a 99% chance of never replacing his value... because we all know that Judge is the one Yankee most likely to produce an MVP season and lead his club to a title.

[Bellhorn04]

Thank you for pointing this out. It's what I've been thinking & alluding to all along. It's certainly JH's right to deconstruct this team - after all, he's the owner. However, he's deconstructing a team that's only a couple of pitchers comebacks away from another real run at a championship and trading it for a mediocre (at best) season.

 

I'm in hopes that this new GM will put a different spin on 2020, that the Sox can make another run at it. If they're successful JH will reap the playoff profits. If it's apparent that they're going to be unsuccessful by the trade deadline they can be sellers, fall in the standings, reap the draft pick and start the rebuild.

 

It seems a shame to waste this talent.

 

"It seems a shame to waste this talent."

 

Right on. We have to trust that management understands this and even has formulas for windows for how long to go for it and the potential profits of more titles vs. investments, etc. It's also why astute Yankee fans are keeping their fingers crossed that a guy like Betts is traded. As a Sox fan, I would love it if New York dealt Judge for a haul of prospects that combined have a 99% chance of never replacing his value... because we all know that Judge is the one Yankee most likely to produce an MVP season and lead his club to a title.

 

John Henry is a smart man and he understands very well the balances between the short-term and long-term, and between making money and putting a team on the field that keeps fans interested.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

John Henry is a smart man and he understands very well the balances between the short-term and long-term, and between making money and putting a team on the field that keeps fans interested.

 

Good point. I think some posters or lurkers here are understandably concerned Henry may eventually lose his own interest (no pun intended). His words were inconsistent and contradictory last season: in early spring, he talked about how important it was to lock up Sale, citing his leadership (barking in the dugout during the WS), regretting the Lester negotiations, etc... then by mid-summer Henry didn't want to add payroll, most likely nixed any deadline deals, and by fall was saying he had disagreed with DD's plans since right after the WS celebration.

 

I am intrigued to see Bloom's plans for the new pitching rule of 2020: the three-batter minimun. Finding or developing pitchers with more longevity would seem to be a priority, whether it's adding a lot of guys with starting experience or stretching out young relievers. Bloom may be leaving Tampa just in time, because one thing's for sure: Cash won't be allowed to go lefty-righty every nine innings anymore.

[Bellhorn04]

Good point. I think some posters or lurkers here are understandably concerned Henry may eventually lose his own interest (no pun intended). His words were inconsistent and contradictory last season: in early spring, he talked about how important it was to lock up Sale, citing his leadership (barking in the dugout during the WS), regretting the Lester negotiations, etc... then by mid-summer Henry didn't want to add payroll, most likely nixed any deadline deals, and by fall was saying he had disagreed with DD's plans since right after the WS celebration.

 

I caution against reading too much into any of it. Henry did approve the trade for Cashner, which was overlooked because it happened early and because he pitched like s***.

 

Also, I doubt that Henry disagreed with DD about everything after the WS. Maybe just about the overall philosophy DD was espousing.

 

And Henry certainly can't disown the Sale extension. He went on record about how they didn't want to make the same mistake they made with Lester et cetera.

[Tedballgame]

I caution against reading too much into any of it. Henry did approve the trade for Cashner, which was overlooked because it happened early and because he pitched like s***.

 

Also, I doubt that Henry disagreed with DD about everything after the WS. Maybe just about the overall philosophy DD was espousing.

 

And Henry certainly can't disown the Sale extension. He went on record about how they didn't want to make the same mistake they made with Lester et cetera.

I agree that the owners are equally responsible for 2019 with DD. They are his bosses. They have to be able to approve of major moves like Eovaldi, Sale, Price, Pearce, etc.

Still, Sox fans are lucky to have won 4 championships since 2004. I remember the 60's-90's when it was agony. It could be worse. How many WS championships have the Yankees won since 2000?

[notin]

And Henry certainly can't disown the Sale extension. He went on record about how they didn't want to make the same mistake they made with Lester et cetera.

 

Maybe he approved of the extension for a healthy Sale, but felt DD ignored some very alarming arm issues before actually signing him..

[notin]

Good point. I think some posters or lurkers here are understandably concerned Henry may eventually lose his own interest (no pun intended). His words were inconsistent and contradictory last season: in early spring, he talked about how important it was to lock up Sale, citing his leadership (barking in the dugout during the WS), regretting the Lester negotiations, etc... then by mid-summer Henry didn't want to add payroll, most likely nixed any deadline deals, and by fall was saying he had disagreed with DD's plans since right after the WS celebration.

 

 

It is entirely possible that DD’s plans as implemented were a different interpretation of what was agreed upon.

 

Or, it’s like any other job. You’re boss might trust your judgment about what will work, but that doesn’t exonerate you if it fails...

[Fan_since_Boggs]

GREAT article on Bloom:

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2019/10/25/seeing-chaim-bloom-walk-away-hurts-rays-seeing-him-in-boston-should-scare-them/

[Fan_since_Boggs]

When he was hired, Dombrowski was the right guy for the organization but it was time to move on and hire a guy who would build a better foundation for the future.

 

Dombrowski is like that high-priced free agent pitcher--he will help you win in the short term, will make you better in the short term, but his long term impact is less certain.

 

Henry made a brilliant decision in hiring Dombrowski. Dombrowski delivered a championship, the architect behind the 2018 Red Sox, one of the best teams in the history of MLB. In contrast, just think how lousy Yankees fans feel. Cashman has been a total failure over the last decade and has no clue on how to put the final pieces in place to win the World Series. The Yankees should move on from Cashman, but they are led by dumb ownership--the Steinbreener kids, the ultimate welfare recipients.

 

I'll always have a soft spot for Dombrowski. The 2018 regular season and playoffs were the most enjoyable to watch from start to finish. True, nothing beats 2004, but 2018 was less anxiety-filled, and more smooth sailing. The 2018 team kicked everyone's ass (no game sevens in the playoffs, for example) and that kind of team was so fun to watch.

[moonslav59]

When he was hired, Dombrowski was the right guy for the organization but it was time to move on and hire a guy who would build a better foundation for the future.

 

Dombrowski is like that high-priced free agent pitcher--he will help you win in the short term, will make you better in the short term, but his long term impact is less certain.

 

Henry made a brilliant decision in hiring Dombrowski. Dombrowski delivered a championship, the architect behind the 2018 Red Sox, one of the best teams in the history of MLB. In contrast, just think how lousy Yankees fans feel. Cashman has been a total failure over the last decade and has no clue on how to put the final pieces in place to win the World Series. The Yankees should move on from Cashman, but they are led by dumb ownership--the Steinbreener kids, the ultimate welfare recipients.

 

I'll always have a soft spot for Dombrowski. The 2018 regular season and playoffs were the most enjoyable to watch from start to finish. True, nothing beats 2004, but 2018 was less anxiety-filled, and more smooth sailing. The 2018 team kicked everyone's ass (no game sevens in the playoffs, for example) and that kind of team was so fun to watch.

 

Excellent post.

 

Yes, it is possible to like what DD did but still think it was right to move on.

[OH FOY]

He's not going to get the sox below $100 mil, let's be honest. But he is the kind of hire that flies with the Epstein's and the Cherington's of the world. He comes from a system that emphasizes scouting and home grown talent. He is going to make re-energizing the sox farm priority #1. The other thing you guys may enjoy is that TB was built on trades. Everyone thinks they're this home grown great story, but they really aren't. They're a home grown team that gets dealt off for cheap talent that fits better. Look at their roster

 

Nick Anderson-acquired for Rays draftee Ryne Stanek

Diego Castillo- IFA signing

Yonny Chirinos- IFA signing

Oliver Drake- traded for cash considerations

Tyler Glasnow- acquired in the Chris Archer deal

Brendan McKay- drafted by TB

Charlie Morton- signed as a FA for $30 mil

Emilio Pagan- acquired in a 3 way deal that sent Profar to the A's

Colin Poche- acquired as a PTBNL in the Steven Souza deal

Chaz Roe- acquired for cash considerations from ATL

Blake Snell- 2nd rounder

Ryan Yarbrough- acquired from SEA in the Drew Smyly deal

Travis D'Arnaud- acquired from LA for cash considerations

Mike Zunino- acquired from SEA in the Mallex Smith deal

Willy Adames- acquired from Detroit in the David Price trade

Ji-Man Choi- acquired from MIL for Brad Miller

Yandy Diaz- acquired in the Edwin Encarnacion/Carlos Santana deal from CLE

Matt Duffy- acquired in the Matt Moore deal from SF

Brandon Lowe- 3rd rounder

Eric Sogard- acquired from TOR for 2 PTNBL

Joey Wendle- acquired from the Guardians in a minor league deal for Jonah Heim

Avisail Garcia- signed as a FA for 1 yr, $6 mil

Kevin Kiermaier- 31st rounder

Austin Meadows- acquired from PIT in the Chris Archer deal

Tommy Pham- dealt to the Rays from StL for 3 minor league arms

 

17 of the 25 guys above were dealt to TB. 4 were drafted. 2 were signed as amateur IFAs. 2 were MLB free agents. This guy was a part of a team that knew how to win trades. He is now in Boston to win some to rebuild

 

These were all Great moves, and he moved Longoria too, for 3 Prospects, in which one was flipped to Cleveland, for a Outfielder and International Bonus money. Like this guy a lot. Krook is raw but has a live arm, in the Longoria Trade.

Edited October 27, 2019 by OH FOY!

[OH FOY]

My belief is this, anybody can sign if you got a team that spends. What's harder is getting rid of Money, and keeping the team competitive. In other words getting value back or better on Trades.

[moonslav59]

My belief is this, anybody can sign if you got a team that spends. What's harder is getting rid of Money, and keeping the team competitive. In other words getting value back or better on Trades.

 

I agree, but some GMs sign better FAs than others- or make less big mistakes.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe he approved of the extension for a healthy Sale, but felt DD ignored some very alarming arm issues before actually signing him..

 

I'm not sure how anyone could have ignored Sale's issues last year, including Henry.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It is entirely possible that DD’s plans as implemented were a different interpretation of what was agreed upon.

 

Or, it’s like any other job. You’re boss might trust your judgment about what will work, but that doesn’t exonerate you if it fails...

 

Good points. Miscommunication defines humanity, especially in this age of email and texts devoid of eye contact, facial expression and intonation (except for uppercase letters or generic acronyms and emojis). But those same devices make it impossible not to save or record any business plan to refer back to; gone are the days when owners can shake on a trade of Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio and then call it off the next morning when they sober up. No matter what, in pro sports, at least, GMs and managers understand they're "hired to be fired", and than an owner's nod ultimately implies, "This better work or else..."

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not sure how anyone could have ignored Sale's issues last year, including Henry.

 

This is a great point: the Unsolved Mystery of 2019, way more because of its short- and long-term effects than rewarding Pearce or Eovaldi (who was the second most sought-after starter behind Corbin). Fans, media and officials from other clubs have been skeptical since the Sale signing. No doubt management was encouraged if not infatuated with his dominance in the final frame of the 2018 season. It is hard to believe, however, that an entire front office was equal parts hopeful that it was legit and fearful that if they didn't extend it would cost treasure chests more if they waited. It's obviously their job to know way more about baseball than any of us... there had to be debate about this contract.

 

After the World Series, considering Sale's late-season burn-outs at the end of '17 and '18, I actually figured that his future may be as a closer. After all, Kimbrel was a heart-attack in the postseason and Cora had already replaced him with Sale in Game 7. Other star starters had converted in the past, like Eckersly and Smoltz, and for the argument that big money is too much for relievers, didn't the whole modern game revolve around bullpens? Maybe, hopefully, the new three-batter minimum changes things...

[Bellhorn04]

This is a great point: the Unsolved Mystery of 2019, way more because of its short- and long-term effects than rewarding Pearce or Eovaldi (who was the second most sought-after starter behind Corbin). Fans, media and officials from other clubs have been skeptical since the Sale signing. No doubt management was encouraged if not infatuated with his dominance in the final frame of the 2018 season. It is hard to believe, however, that an entire front office was equal parts hopeful that it was legit and fearful that if they didn't extend it would cost treasure chests more if they waited. It's obviously their job to know way more about baseball than any of us... there had to be debate about this contract.

 

I'm sure there was debate.

 

I think if there was no extension and Sale went out and had a strong season, he would be looking at something like $200 million in free agency.

 

What he agreed to was about $128 million, in present value dollars, based on the calcs done for his AAV.

 

It all keeps coming back to how the problems in his arm could be missed in a high-tech medical exam.

[cp176]

cp, a lot of fans love the blame game, and it's not just DD who has had the finger pointed at him for this year's failures. Cora has been raked on the coals pretty good for the spring training program and other issues. A few here have called for him to be fired too. And our pitching coaches have already been canned.

 

There have been many reasonable and well thought out posts in this thread. Yours usually are top shelf! I'm sure that no GM is without his or her weaknesses as well as strengths. Many of my comments I guess are reactions to the few posters who seem to sound as though they know exactly what this team needs and needs to do to become successful. Dombrowski is and has been a marvelous scapegoat for them because they did not like his methods. His era is over and it is time to throw support behind our new leadership. I do not know what JH plans with respect to his budget but I do think that you have to be somewhat on the soft side if you think that he is in any way likely to make moves at the expense of winning in both the short and long term. He is not the type of owner who will risk losing fans while saying that we just have to patient for a few years.

[oldtimer]

There have been many reasonable and well thought out posts in this thread. Yours usually are top shelf! I'm sure that no GM is without his or her weaknesses as well as strengths. Many of my comments I guess are reactions to the few posters who seem to sound as though they know exactly what this team needs and needs to do to become successful. Dombrowski is and has been a marvelous scapegoat for them because they did not like his methods. His era is over and it is time to throw support behind our new leadership. I do not know what JH plans with respect to his budget but I do think that you have to be somewhat on the soft side if you think that he is in any way likely to make moves at the expense of winning in both the short and long term. He is not the type of owner who will risk losing fans while saying that we just have to patient for a few years.

 

I didn't think a lot of fans pointed at DD for this years failures. That had to be placed primarily on the players and coaches. DD was constrained by the budget limitations (those he helped create) but that was the primary arrea of blame. What I thought most fans were saying is that DD's methods would not be the best approach for dealing with a team with a bloated payroll, a weak farm and a number of underperforming contracts. Clearly the ownership is looking for a reset this year and someone more suited to making that happen, while starting to rebuild the farm was sought. Bloom is a guy who appears to meet those traits, so without blaming DD we are moving on to different methods.

[Slasher9]

I agree with you for the most part but I think unfortunately that too many people want to find a villain for everything that went wrong for us this year. it appears that Dombrowski was chosen to fill that role. There is usually more than one way to get a job done. If our pitching had remained healthy, we all might be singing a different tune. There are too many people here who regardless of what they say, did not like the initial hiring of DD because of an infatuation for whatever reason with Ben Cherington. If, once again, the pitching staff had remained healthy there is reason to think that the future still held great promise. Once again, I think that the hiring of Bloom looks good but I really do think that there is too much emphasis here on the job of the GM. Our players need to play better.

 

Actually many of us said that DD would decimate the Farm when he was hired. that is exactly what he did. on top of that he also buried us with 3 SP contracts that look not so great for us now in SPE (props to Bell that is a great acronym for our 3 high paid/oft injured starters).

Bloom has a rep for building competitive teams at low cost while also building a strong foundation of young (see: inexpensive) pitching. hopefully he does as good of a job doing what we expect him to do as DD did......

[notin]

I'm not sure how anyone could have ignored Sale's issues last year, including Henry.

 

And yet here we are...

[moonslav59]

I'm far from giving up on Sale earning his salary.

 

IMO, he could have surgery, miss a whole season and maybe still earn his contract by having 4 typical Sale dominating seasons.

[cp176]

Actually many of us said that DD would decimate the Farm when he was hired. that is exactly what he did. on top of that he also buried us with 3 SP contracts that look not so great for us now in SPE (props to Bell that is a great acronym for our 3 high paid/oft injured starters).

Bloom has a rep for building competitive teams at low cost while also building a strong foundation of young (see: inexpensive) pitching. hopefully he does as good of a job doing what we expect him to do as DD did......

 

I like the choice of words - decimate. What I would say is that we got Sale for Moncada and Kopech(?). Now with the rest of the decimation there are many people who did not blink an eye at trading the rest of the pieces traded - players that very well might never have played for our team. Stockpiling them had been tried and did no good. Now the people that are fans with whom I communicate were not nearly as unhappy as some of the members of this forum with DD's work. People are entitled to their own opinions but theirs' are as valuable as the ones posted by anyone who posts here. With that all being said, I'm happy that everyone is so upbeat about the latest hiring. he looks good and I once again will support our current GM as avidly as I have the rest.