Who’s to blame...

[fxkatt]

Well, the Yanks are winning with multiple disadvantages this season, many of which will disappear before the playoffs. So, they could match Houston except for one thing--starting pitching. so, I would never bet on the Yanks. Never--unless Houston should sustain some key injuries. (the AL sucks this year which does account for at least some of the Yanks success... but also points to our abject failure...so far)

[Bellhorn04]

To a degree that is true. But you cannot take three of your four top offensive producers down leaving the fourth to try to make up for it because effectively now you have significantly diminished the effectiveness of the top four offensive producers on your team.

 

"In fact, the Astros were so crippled that they had to move Bergman around he tried to do too much to make up for their lost personnel, which is what we would have to do. So effectively when you lose the effectiveness of three of your top offensive players you really lose four because the guy that is left tries too hard to make up for it."

 

That Houston team we beat last year had just demolished a very good Guardians team in 3 straight, outscoring them 21-6.

[Bellhorn04]

Altuve could not run with his leg issues and Correa could not hit with his back. They were not even half of what they could be and in fact Springer went down with injury during that series.

 

No, Springer played the whole series and hit 381/485/667. Seems pretty healthy to me.

[kenmeister]

Pitching generally wins in the playoffs.

 

For as much as we've been upset about the Sox pitching, we've been very excited about our hitting, and the Yankees really held our great hitters to a pittance of hits this weekend. Hats off to the Yankees, they looked awesome.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, the Yanks are winning with multiple disadvantages this season, many of which will disappear before the playoffs. So, they could match Houston except for one thing--starting pitching. so, I would never bet on the Yanks. Never--unless Houston should sustain some key injuries. (the AL sucks this year which does account for at least some of the Yanks success... but also points to our abject failure...so far)

 

That’s why we need a healthy Severino and Betances. Even if Sevy is a 3 inning pitcher, that pen would be absolutely deadly for the final 6. Boone is going to need to be aware of his strengths. If Betances returns, we can run a pen game in game 4 if need be.

 

Green

Betances

Ottavino

Kahnle

Britton

Chapman

 

With everyone in front of Chapman doing either 1-2 innings. Heck, if Sevy is a reliever then add him to the list.

[fxkatt]

I agree slightly more with Jung in this little squabble... I still think those Houston hitters are scary and central to their intimidating factor and winning ways. I didn't admit their disadvantage during the series because NBC did it too often, but looking back, I loved our lucky break.

[OH FOY]

Dodgers are one of the most Mentality tough teams I have seen this year, They just grind, they are different team then last year mentally. Yanks face them in a few weeks, that ought o be a good series.

I have them as the favorite, for me at least. They impressed me here.

Yesterday they just kept coming back in the game I saw.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree slightly more with Jung in this little squabble... I still think those Houston hitters are scary and central to their intimidating factor and winning ways. I didn't admit their disadvantage during the series because NBC did it too often, but looking back, I loved our lucky break.

 

The Red Sox did have a significant health issue as well. Our ace starter Chris Sale, who pitched little the last 2 months of the season and was clearly far from 100% in his postseason appearances.

[fxkatt]

That’s why we need a healthy Severino and Betances. Even if Sevy is a 3 inning pitcher, that pen would be absolutely deadly for the final 6. Boone is going to need to be aware of his strengths. If Betances returns, we can run a pen game in game 4 if need be.

 

Green

Betances

Ottavino

Kahnle

Britton

Chapman

 

With everyone in front of Chapman doing either 1-2 innings. Heck, if Sevy is a reliever then add him to the list.

 

I wonder if Boone will have the guts to do this, tho. I know I would. If you got a pen like this, you have to flaunt it.

[Maxbialystock]

Didn't read the whole thread, but was pleased with the first page where most comments say something similar to--"well, that's baseball."

 

Certainly I blame the starters. But they weren't too shabby last year and in fact have had good years in the past. So I'm inclined to blame the pitching coach even though I recognize there is only so much he can do.

 

Last night was another specific reminder of how Sox starters are different, at least in my eyes. They don't work the corners well, especially at the bottom of the zone, and this exacerbates the fact that three of them--Sale, Price, and ERod--don't have a curve ball, so they rely on fast balls and cut fast balls. ERod has the best changeup, but not that good command. The quintessential ERod first inning is the one we saw vs the Yankees this weekend when he walked I think two guys, gave up the grand slam, and them pitched a very solid 6 innings. Sale and Price, astoundingly, do not have great changeups even though face tons of righty bats. Sale has a darn good slider, but can't always hit his spots, especially down low, plus it breaks in on righty hitters.

 

The bullpen for the most part does not have great stuff or great command. Lately, they seem intimidated by just going to the mound.

 

I see nothing to fix in the hitting. When opposing pitchers prevail, it's usually because they are pitching well--hitting spots, good movement, etc.

[jung]

I agree slightly more with Jung in this little squabble... I still think those Houston hitters are scary and central to their intimidating factor and winning ways. I didn't admit their disadvantage during the series because NBC did it too often, but looking back, I loved our lucky break.

 

 

 

It was a lucky break...you are correct.

 

You don't start moving guys like Bergman around in your lineup just because. That was a desperate last ditch effort, a hope more than a strategy which speaks buckets to where the Astros thought they were. Hinch moved Bregman to the 1 hole at the end because none of the rest of his top four could move they were so banged up. What, do we want to make believe they were all moving just fine and all got banged up in the penultimate game of that series? That would be about our speed around these parts.

[Bellhorn04]

I wonder if Boone will have the guts to do this, tho. I know I would. If you got a pen like this, you have to flaunt it.

 

I think the Yankees starters, especially Paxton and Happ, have to step up for them to win it. You can't win on bullpen alone.

[Bellhorn04]

It was a lucky break...you are correct.

 

You don't start moving guys like Bergman around in your lineup just because. That was a desperate last ditch effort, a hope more than a strategy which speaks buckets to where the Astros thought they were. Hinch moved Bregman to the 1 hole at the end because none of the rest of his top four could move they were so banged up. What, do we want to make believe they were all moving just fine and all got banged up in the penultimate game of that series? That would be about our speed around these parts.

 

Maybe it was just a bad tactical move on Hinch's part.

[Bellhorn04]

It was a lucky break...you are correct.

 

You don't start moving guys like Bergman around in your lineup just because. That was a desperate last ditch effort, a hope more than a strategy which speaks buckets to where the Astros thought they were. Hinch moved Bregman to the 1 hole at the end because none of the rest of his top four could move they were so banged up. What, do we want to make believe they were all moving just fine and all got banged up in the penultimate game of that series? That would be about our speed around these parts.

 

Christ jung, in that pivotal 4th game, the Astros scored 6 runs and left the bases loaded in the 9th when Beni robbed Bregman. Their offense was not the problem.

 

We were fortunate to win that game, but not for the reasons you're putting forth.

[jung]

If I were in Houston, the guy I would worry about is Springer. Altuve had a leg and it does not look like its something that will plague him through his career. Correa appears to have had a back injury that is not as severe as it could have been as he shows no signs that I can detect of impingement to his freedom of movement.

 

Springer destroyed his back in 2018. He will likely be more plagued by his back than JD is with his. Springer may be able to avoid surgery through his career but if he does, will likely head to the operating table post career just to save himself from the pain. I suspect there was a good deal of "pain management" going on with Springer in the 2018 post season.....Correa as well though again I think his back issues are less severe than Springer's. Altuve seems back to his old self from what I can tell.

[Maxbialystock]

Christ jung, in that pivotal 4th game, the Astros scored 6 runs and left the bases loaded in the 9th when Beni robbed Bregman. Their offense was not the problem.

 

We were fortunate to win that game, but not for the reasons you're putting forth.

 

Astros had the highest OPS, .843, in the postseason last year and scored 42 runs in 8 game, about 5.4 runs/game. Sox OPS was about 100 points lower.

[Bellhorn04]

Astros had the highest OPS, .843, in the postseason last year and scored 42 runs in 8 game, about 5.4 runs/game. Sox OPS was about 100 points lower.

 

Right. And as I said, our ace was obviously at much less than 100%. Case closed.

[dannycater]

Purely you can seriously place blame on the complete breakdown of the Cy Young Trio--Price, Sale, and Porcello. They are crippling the team and sending it into a losing spiral of hell.

[jung]

Right. And as I said, our ace was obviously at much less than 100%. Case closed.

 

And the Astros OPS in the ALCS was .721 with a .219 BA. You want to tell me that is all pitching and I will tell you that is BS. Their ALDS OPS was 1037.

 

You cannot play as hurt as the Astros were for that long. You can't be Medicated and treated day after day without the meds and the treatments themselves taking their toll. Between the pain itself and the effects from the meds and the treatments a couple of weeks of that and the player is a train wreck. That is particularly true with back injuries.

 

You know what most players do with back injuries? THEY DON"T PLAY until they can play again without pain. But at the end of the year, in playoff conditions, they don't have that option as was the case with Correa and Springer. Altuve did not have a back but he could barely move at all OBVIOUSLY. I have no idea what they were shooting into Springer to get him to go out there at the end as he did pretty well in the series but you could tell his freedom of movement was impinged. He was surely not a healthy player.

 

You know it really would help if this site had more people posting that had actually played ANYTHING at any serious level or been around serious athletic competition at a championship level, one where championship play exposes the player to the kinds of med and treatment regimens that WILL BE EMPLOYED under championship conditions and will be employed for as long as the player can bear it no matter the consequences and no matter the overarching effect on the player beyond his pain management and the effort to free up movement in the damaged area.

 

In fact it would help if people actually watched the games and I mean really watched the games as opposed to pouring over spread sheets post game and thinking those spread sheets tell the story.

Edited August 5, 2019 by jung

[Slasher9]

this season isnt on the starters, relievers, offense, defense, pitch framing. this season has been sandbagged from Day 1 of spring training by WTF.

the manager is judged on W-L. thats what maxbiallstock always says. and i happen to agree with him.

[Bellhorn04]

You know what most players do with back injuries? THEY DON"T PLAY until they can play again without pain. But at the end of the year, in playoff conditions, they don't have that option as was the case with Correa and Springer. Altuve did not have a back but he could barely move at all OBVIOUSLY. I have no idea what they were shooting into Springer to get him to go out there at the end as he did pretty well in the series but you could tell his freedom of movement was impinged. He was surely not a healthy player.

 

So because Springer hit 381/485/667 in the series, which contradicts your position, you're going to attribute it to what they were shooting into him? Amazing.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[Slasher9]

And the Astros OPS in the ALCS was .721 with a .219 BA. You want to tell me that is all pitching and I will tell you that is BS. Their ALDS OPS was 1037.

 

You cannot play as hurt as the Astros were for that long. You can't be Medicated and treated day after day without the meds and the treatments themselves taking their toll. Between the pain itself and the effects from the meds and the treatments a couple of weeks of that and the player is a train wreck. That is particularly true with back injuries.

 

You know what most players do with back injuries? THEY DON"T PLAY until they can play again without pain. But at the end of the year, in playoff conditions, they don't have that option as was the case with Correa and Springer. Altuve did not have a back but he could barely move at all OBVIOUSLY. I have no idea what they were shooting into Springer to get him to go out there at the end as he did pretty well in the series but you could tell his freedom of movement was impinged. He was surely not a healthy player.

 

You know it really would help if this site had more people posting that had actually played ANYTHING at any serious level or been around serious athletic competition at a championship level, one where championship play exposes the player to the kinds of med and treatment regimens that WILL BE EMPLOYED under championship conditions and will be employed for as long as the player can bear it no matter the consequences and no matter the overarching effect on the player beyond his pain management and the effort to free up movement in the damaged area.

 

In fact it would help if people actually watched the games and I mean really watched the games as opposed to pouring over spread sheets post game and thinking those spread sheets tell the story.

 

jung i believe that the 2018 houston astros could have had joe freakin' dimaggio out there and we still would have beat them. it was our year. thankfully we still had skinny beni.

[Bellhorn04]

this season isnt on the starters, relievers, offense, defense, pitch framing. this season has been sandbagged from Day 1 of spring training by WTF.

the manager is judged on W-L. thats what maxbiallstock always says. and i happen to agree with him.

 

This season doesn't reflect very well on Cora, obviously.

 

But I thought the parades meant everything to you. That's why I don't get the campaign to crucify him so soon after one.

 

Cora's overall record including postseason, BTW, stands at 178-112 (.614).

[Oscars]

It hardly matters who is to blame at this point. The rotation has been awful. So the first place you go is to the players themselves. But who committed this franchise to these starters? Who decided on closer by committee which has worked in MLB about all of one time that I can remember.

 

I have got a bigger issue. How oblivious to the pulse of this team is the front office? They came out right at the trade deadline and made all kinds of noise about how confident and enthusiastic this team was about itself, its uniform management, its executive management and its chances to get to the post season this year and the team went right out and immediately and publicly pulled management's pants right down around its ankles. How is it that this management was so far removed from the sentiments of the team that they ended up writing checks the team was clearly unwilling to cover fully 2/3rds of the way through the 2019 season?

 

this organization is a mess, top to bottom. IMO, LaVangie is gone, the bullpen coach is gone. Some players will be gone and now there is a much better chance that DD is gone than there was before everybody in management went and shot their mouths off at the trade deadline.

 

You mean the same management that has won the World Series 4 times in in 15 years, more than anyone else this century, and as recently as last season?

Time will prove that DD was correct not to invest in this team at the deadline with their overpaid non performing starters and inconsistent batters.

That said DD has to take responsibility for starting the season without a proven closer.

[notin]

You mean the same management that has won the World Series 4 times in in 15 years, more than anyone else this century, and as recently as last season?

Time will prove that DD was correct not to invest in this team at the deadline with their overpaid non performing starters and inconsistent batters.

That said DD has to take responsibility for starting the season without a proven closer.

 

No, time will NEVER prove that, because you will never know “what if?”

 

DD stopped investing in this team last November. How many players to play for Boston this year were added to this organization between the World Series and the Andrew Cashner Trade?

 

Sadly, I can only name three...

Edited August 5, 2019 by notin

[notin]

So because Springer hit 381/485/667 in the series, which contradicts your position, you're going to attribute it to what they were shooting into him? Amazing.

 

So Springer played through injuries and crushed the Sox, it was detrimental because he was on cortisone or something. But NO RED SOX PLAYERS were playing while getting treatment. That’s his position...

[Slasher9]

This season doesn't reflect very well on Cora, obviously.

 

But I thought the parades meant everything to you. That's why I don't get the campaign to crucify him so soon after one.

 

Cora's overall record including postseason, BTW, stands at 178-112 (.614).

 

Fair.

[Oscars]

No, time will NEVER prove that, because you will never know “what if?”

 

DD stopped investing in this team last November. How many players to play for Boston this year were added to this organization between the World Series and the Andrew Cashner Trade?

 

Sadly, I can only name three...

 

There are no words in the English dictionary that could convince me that adding a decent closer at the deadline was going to somehow transform the Sox under performing starters .

In regard to adding to the team from last year the Sox are already the highest spending team in baseball the last 2 years so it’s hard to complain about them not going over the top tier of the cap.

That said DD did not spend well on Eavoldi and Pearce in the off season , as they have both been non factors , and the bullpen was short of quality from the get go.

[moonslav59]

There are no words in the English dictionary that could convince me that adding a decent closer at the deadline was going to somehow transform the Sox under performing starters .

In regard to adding to the team from last year the Sox are already the highest spending team in baseball the last 2 years so it’s hard to complain about them not going over the top tier of the cap.

That said DD did not spend well on Eavoldi and Pearce in the off season , as they have both been non factors , and the bullpen was short of quality from the get go.

 

You are right, but had Eovaldi and Pearce stayed healthy, this season did prove we had a need for a SP'er and back-up 1Bman.

 

Moreland got hurt again. (Nobody expected Chavis to shine, and he was needed at 2B anyways)

 

We ended up trading for Cashner as our only move. Clearly, we need a SP'er had we not signed Eovaldi.

 

We only had a limited amount of money to spend. It certainly looks like going over the max penalty line was not allowed.

 

In hindsight, we'd have know Chavis could play 1B and 2B well enough to not be a negative.

 

Signed Charlie Morton at $15M x 2.

 

Signed Adam Ottavino at $9M x 3.

 

We'd have stayed under the max line and been in the race, but it's easy to say this in hindsight.

 

[Oscars]

You are right, but had Eovaldi and Pearce stayed healthy, this season did prove we had a need for a SP'er and back-up 1Bman.

 

Moreland got hurt again. (Nobody expected Chavis to shine, and he was needed at 2B anyways)

 

We ended up trading for Cashner as our only move. Clearly, we need a SP'er had we not signed Eovaldi.

 

We only had a limited amount of money to spend. It certainly looks like going over the max penalty line was not allowed.

 

In hindsight, we'd have know Chavis could play 1B and 2B well enough to not be a negative.

 

Signed Charlie Morton at $15M x 2.

 

Signed Adam Ottavino at $9M x 3.

 

We'd have stayed under the max line and been in the race, but it's easy to say this in hindsight.

 

 

That would have been outstanding .

Call Doc, fire up the delorean , we are sending DD back to December 2018!