A Realistic View at 2019: Part II

[oldtimer]

This got me thinking.

 

I listed how many times our top 4 SP'ers let up 4 or 5+ runs. What about games like today's?

 

New criteria: games with 5+ ERs, 4+ in 5 or less inning, 3+ in 4 or less, 2+ in 3 or less...

 

11 out of 24 in Porcello starts (+2 times with 4 runs in 6 IP)

 

9 out of 24 in Sale starts (+2 times with 4 runs in 6 IP)

 

5 out of 21 in Price starts (+2 times with 4 runs in 6 IP and 1 with 0 in 0.2 IP)

 

5 out of 23 in ERod starts (+2 with 4 in 5.1 IP or 4 in 5.2 IP)

 

Porcello + Sale= 20 out of 48

 

Top 4: 30 out of 72

 

 

 

Obviously we can't be competitive with pitching like that. Add to those numbers all the blown saves and we have a team that will finish out of the race, a big comedown for a team which such a high payroll and a WS championship just last year.

 

We need to consider the appropriate GM for rebuilding but there is also a question about coaching and management.

[moonslav59]

Obviously we can't be competitive with pitching like that. Add to those numbers all the blown saves and we have a team that will finish out of the race, a big comedown for a team which such a high payroll and a WS championship just last year.

 

We need to consider the appropriate GM for rebuilding but there is also a question about coaching and management.

 

I think we need a GM not a coach, but I agree with everything else.

[moonslav59]

Who was the poster who was adamant about how Price opting out would hurt us?

 

I wonder how he feels now.

[Slasher9]

Who was the poster who was adamant about how Price opting out would hurt us?

 

I wonder how he feels now.

 

i think i know who that was but will let him chime in.

Price did help us get that parade last season so i have bitten the bullet. Plus i am always on record that i will take 3 last place finishes for a parade every fourth year. going forward that $31 will certainly be painful but i think it's fair to say we needed him last year.

[moonslav59]

i think i know who that was but will let him chime in.

Price did help us get that parade last season so i have bitten the bullet. Plus i am always on record that i will take 3 last place finishes for a parade every fourth year. going forward that $31 will certainly be painful but i think it's fair to say we needed him last year.

 

I'm fine with the Price signing, too. I liked it at the time. He was the best starter available in a time we needed an ace.

 

I'm wondering about his point that we could not replace Price at $31M starting with his opt out year.

[notin]

Who was the poster who was adamant about how Price opting out would hurt us?

 

I wonder how he feels now.

 

Not me. The only reason I liked the Price deal was I figured he would opt out after 3 years...

[Nick]

It's very easy to make decisions in hindsight.

 

After the world series, who in their right mind would have traded or hoped Price would opt out?

 

I also thought Eovaldi signing was good move. Obviously there was a gamble with his health. My thought was more in line with 2019 being Porcello's last year only because of the size of his current contract. You can't pay everyone $20M plus. Eovaldi would have filled Porcello's spot for 2020 while the team developed a starter out of minor leagues during 2019.

 

I'm still convinced that had the starting rotation pitched to its 'norm' we would be in the hunt for playoffs.

 

Sox chose to spend money on starters and they have simply not performed.

 

Going forward, do we rethink about the allocation of pot of money? Do we insist on not signing starters that will go well beyond 30 when the contract is up?

 

My preference is always having a wiggle room to sign absolutely best player when that player will get us over the top, not to get into the playoffs but to give us chance to win it all.

 

I thought the Yankees were exactly in that position. They chose NOT to add a top of the line player. I wouldn't be a happy Yankee fan right now. To me, both Houston and Dodgers are better. The goal is not to win 105 games. The goal is to win the World Series.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Nick

[jacksonianmarch]

It's very easy to make decisions in hindsight.

 

After the world series, who in their right mind would have traded or hoped Price would opt out?

 

I also thought Eovaldi signing was good move. Obviously there was a gamble with his health. My thought was more in line with 2019 being Porcello's last year only because of the size of his current contract. You can't pay everyone $20M plus. Eovaldi would have filled Porcello's spot for 2020 while the team developed a starter out of minor leagues during 2019.

 

I'm still convinced that had the starting rotation pitched to its 'norm' we would be in the hunt for playoffs.

 

Sox chose to spend money on starters and they have simply not performed.

 

Going forward, do we rethink about the allocation of pot of money? Do we insist on not signing starters that will go well beyond 30 when the contract is up?

 

My preference is always having a wiggle room to sign absolutely best player when that player will get us over the top, not to get into the playoffs but to give us chance to win it all.

 

I thought the Yankees were exactly in that position. They chose NOT to add a top of the line player. I wouldn't be a happy Yankee fan right now. To me, both Houston and Dodgers are better. The goal is not to win 105 games. The goal is to win the World Series.

 

We’ll see come the postseason. We’ve got a deep and deadly pen. We just need 3-5 innings from out starters and we are good

[Nick]

We’ll see come the postseason. We’ve got a deep and deadly pen. We just need 3-5 innings from out starters and we are good

 

That's fine if EVERY reliever does the job. A break in that chain could cost you the game if your starter is only going 3-5 every game. I do agree that Yankee organization is in better place than Sox's right now (if you ignore the last 15 years or so).

[jacksonianmarch]

That's fine if EVERY reliever does the job. A break in that chain could cost you the game if your starter is only going 3-5 every game. I do agree that Yankee organization is in better place than Sox's right now (if you ignore the last 15 years or so).

 

We changed organizational philosophy in 2013 after the Sox won their third in 9 years. Since then, we’ve focused on farm building and depth. Since 2015, the Sox switched back to the Yankees method of team building which is carpe diem, f the future. It’s interesting how the teams changed philosophy and adopted the other’s MO.

[Nick]

We changed organizational philosophy in 2013 after the Sox won their third in 9 years. Since then, we’ve focused on farm building and depth. Since 2015, the Sox switched back to the Yankees method of team building which is carpe diem, f the future. It’s interesting how the teams changed philosophy and adopted the other’s MO.

 

We have failed to develop starting pitching in our farm. Are there any former Sox minor-leaguers pitching in the majors? Every highly regarded prospect ends up in the pen. WTF?

[Bellhorn04]

We have failed to develop starting pitching in our farm. Are there any former Sox minor-leaguers pitching in the majors? Every highly regarded prospect ends up in the pen. WTF?

 

It's pretty much always been that way for this franchise, with a few notable exceptions.

[moonslav59]

We have failed to develop starting pitching in our farm. Are there any former Sox minor-leaguers pitching in the majors? Every highly regarded prospect ends up in the pen. WTF?

 

Lester is still pitching well.

Beeks is doing okay.

Logan Allen and Kopech may do well.

 

But yeah, we need to find someone who knows how to identify great young pitchers and someone who can develop them better than we have.

 

We can spend big on FAs, so why can't we spend big on top minds?

[harmony]

Who was the poster who was adamant about how Price opting out would hurt us?

 

I wonder how he feels now.

If David Price were a free agent this offseason, would the Red Sox extend the lefthander a qualifying offer?

[Slasher9]

If David Price were a free agent this offseason, would the Red Sox extend the lefthander a qualifying offer?

 

i think that would depend on how he comes back from his latest episode of Fortnite Wrist.

[moonslav59]

If David Price were a free agent this offseason, would the Red Sox extend the lefthander a qualifying offer?

 

Yes. $19M/1yr looks like a no-brainer, unless we choose this winter as the reset year.

[harmony]

Yes. $19M/1yr looks like a no-brainer, unless we choose this winter as the reset year.

Without David Price's 2020 salary of $32 million, the Red Sox would face an easier task of resetting.

 

In the hypothetical, would Price accept the qualifying offer?

[moonslav59]

Without David Price's 2020 salary of $32 million, the Red Sox would face an easier task of resetting.

 

In the hypothetical, would Price accept the qualifying offer?

 

I'd guess no, but what happened to Keuchel & Kimbrel, who knows?

[notin]

We have failed to develop starting pitching in our farm. Are there any former Sox minor-leaguers pitching in the majors? Every highly regarded prospect ends up in the pen. WTF?

 

Logan Allen

 

Michael Kopech was last year but is out with an injury...

[moonslav59]

How about these K rates?

 

17.6 D Hernandez

 

 

15.8 Barnes

 

14.2 Shawaryn

 

13.2 Sale

 

12.4 Workman

12.2 Taylor

 

10.8 Price & Hembree

9.3 Walden

9.0 ERod

 

 

 

[YastrzemskI]

We’ll see come the postseason. We’ve got a deep and deadly pen. We just need 3-5 innings from out starters and we are good

 

So all you need is three innings per game from your staff in order to win the WS? Please come back down to planet Earth.

[Sox75]

Put a fork in this one lads! It's OVAH!

[Sox75]

A truly pathetic year for the...

#1) The SR. It trickles down from there

#2) The BP. Too overworked & stressed to have a chance

- still, NOT GOOD!

 

#3) Defense, errors, & inconsistency

 

Nothing you all don't know.

[Key2Delock]

Now that they've gone 3-12 in their last 15 games to drop eight games out of playoff contention and 17-1/2 games behind the first-place Yankees, edging closer to a .500 record for the season, I'll keep reminding myself that I should be grateful that I've been alive to have seen the 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018 World Series, after waiting all those years from 1957 to 2004 to see a Red Sox World Series championship.

[Sox75]

Interesting that the wheels came completely off, directly in the wake of another DP self-indulgent & unprovoked RAKE on Eck?

[harmony]

Interesting that the wheels came completely off, directly in the wake of another DP self-indulgent & unprovoked RAKE on Eck?

That's another reason why the Red Sox might not extend a qualifying offer to David Price if the lefthander were a pending free agent (of course he's not).

 

But that might impact Price's trade value to another club ... or not.

[Sox75]

Betts .278, 62 rbi's

JDM .308, 70 rbi's

Beni .288, 61 rbi's

JBJ. .221, 45 rbi's

 

Besides Bogie & Devers, the rest were sub-par, & wildly inconsistent.

 

A ho-hum uninspired year all around.

The SR pitching? An epic FAIL!

Promising stuff from E-Rod

Edited August 13, 2019 by Sox75

[notin]

That's another reason why the Red Sox might not extend a qualifying offer to David Price if the lefthander were a pending free agent (of course he's not).

 

But that might impact Price's trade value to another club ... or not.

 

Nowhere near the same impact as his contract. And performance for that contract.

 

Trevor Bauer has a reputation for being difficult on all fronts, yet look at the haul he brought to Cleveland.

 

If Price was still putting up Cy Young numbers during his arbitration years, he could stick forks in Eck’s eyes and set fire to Eck’s hair without any negative impact on his trade value...

[moonslav59]

The Good

Bogaerts .932

Devers .928

Vazquez .809

Workman 1.87

Walden 3.30

JTaylor 3.34

(Marco .862 & Travis .771 in limited duty)

 

The Bad (or not so Good/not reached expectations)

JD Martinez .943 (but just 71 rbis)

Betts .882 (Just 62 rbis)

Beni .825 (just 60 rbis)

Moreland .826 (hurt too much-again)

B Holt .811 (hurt too much, again)

Chavis .766 (sub .700 since his friat 14 games)

Leon .576 (pitcher magic not enough)

Sale 4.41 (inconsistent)

Price 4.36 (low innings)

ERod 4.17 (fading)

 

 

The Ugly

JBJ .696 (all in one 6 week hot streak)

Nunez, Pearce, Pedey, Swihart (no numbers needed)

Porcello 5.67

Barnes 4.70

Cashner,Wright, Johnson, Velazquez, Weber, Shawaryn

Hembree, Brasier, Poyner, TKelley, Brewer, Lakins, Thornburg, ERamirez, JSmith

Edited August 13, 2019 by moonslav59

[S5Dewey]

The Good

Devers .928

Vazquez .809

Workman 1.87

Walden 3.30

JTaylor 3.34

(Marco .862 & Travis .771 in limited duty)

 

The Bad (or not so Good/not reached expectations)

JD Martinez .943 (but just 71 rbis)

Betts .882 (Just 62 rbis)

Beni .825 (just 60 rbis)

Moreland .826 (hurt too much-again)

B Holt .811 (hurt too much, again)

Chavis .766 (sub .700 since his friat 14 games)

Leon .576 (pitcher magic not enough)

Sale 4.41 (inconsistent)

Price 4.36 (low innings)

ERod 4.17 (fading)

 

 

The Ugly

JBJ .696 (all in one 6 week hot streak)

Nunez, Pearce, Pedey, Swihart (no numbers needed)

Porcello 5.67

Barnes 4.70

Cashner,Wright, Johnson, Velazquez, Weber, Shawaryn

Hembree, Brasier, Poyner, TKelley, Brewer, Lakins, Thornburg, ERamirez, JSmith

 

I hope you're not falling into the trap of "Offense is all that matters". I'm happy enough with ~.700, considering the defense he brings to the game I certainly wouldn't put him in the "Ugly" column. Also, he's hitting at/near the bottom of the order of a team that's close to the top of baseball in runs scored. So... how much is that .700 actually hurting the team? How does that compare to other team's hitters at the bottom of the order?

 

Let's not make him the scapegoat for this poor season. JBJ is not the reason this team is losing games.

Edited August 13, 2019 by S5Dewey