Who is the greatest under-the-radar player in Sox history?

[Northern Star]

The guy who achieved the most with the smallest amount of fame or acknowledgment.

[notin]

This one could go any of 1,000 directions. But I’ll get the ball rolling with Greg Harris, who was a 33yo scrap heap pitcher for the Sox who pitched in 83 games, including 51 starts, over his best two year stretch with Boston.

 

Tom Bolton was another name that crossed my mind right away, too...

[moonslav59]

Daniel Nava?

[kenmeister]

I know he had some fame at the time, but I'm going to go with Bill Mueller.

[S5Dewey]

This one could go any of 1,000 directions. But I’ll get the ball rolling with Greg Harris, who was a 33yo scrap heap pitcher for the Sox who pitched in 83 games, including 51 starts, over his best two year stretch with Boston.

 

Tom Bolton was another name that crossed my mind right away, too...

 

Harris pitched for the Red Sox from 1991-93 and wanted a clause in his contract that he'd be allowed to do it in a game. The Sox refused. Two years later, while pitching for the Expos, he got that chance.

 

"A natural right-hander, by 1986 Harris could throw well enough left-handed that he felt he could pitch with either hand in a game, but his team would not allow this keeping him from being a legitimate ambidextrous major league pitcher.

Harris wasn't allowed to throw lefty in a regular season game until September 28, 1995, his penultimate game with the Expos. In the ninth inning, Harris retired Reggie Sanders pitching right-handed, then switched to his left hand for the next two hitters, Hal Morris and Ed Taubensee, who both batted lefty. Harris walked Morris but got Taubensee to ground out. He then went back to his right hand to retire Bret Boone to end the inning.

Harris's glove, which was custom built with an extra thumb so that it could be worn on either hand, is now on display at the National Baseball Hall of Fame."

[moonslav59]

Harris pitched for the Red Sox from 1991-93 and wanted a clause in his contract that he'd be allowed to do it in a game. The Sox refused. Two years later, while pitching for the Expos, he got that chance.

 

"A natural right-hander, by 1986 Harris could throw well enough left-handed that he felt he could pitch with either hand in a game, but his team would not allow this keeping him from being a legitimate ambidextrous major league pitcher.

Harris wasn't allowed to throw lefty in a regular season game until September 28, 1995, his penultimate game with the Expos. In the ninth inning, Harris retired Reggie Sanders pitching right-handed, then switched to his left hand for the next two hitters, Hal Morris and Ed Taubensee, who both batted lefty. Harris walked Morris but got Taubensee to ground out. He then went back to his right hand to retire Bret Boone to end the inning.

Harris's glove, which was custom built with an extra thumb so that it could be worn on either hand, is now on display at the National Baseball Hall of Fame."

 

Sox management could be such pricks back in those days.

[notin]

I know he had some fame at the time, but I'm going to go with Bill Mueller.

 

That actually is a pretty good call. Mueller might be about as underrated as it gets. The guy was an AL batting champion for the Sox, but who remembers that?

[moonslav59]

Here are some names to ponder...

 

Roger Moret

 

Bernie Carbo

 

Bill "Soup" Campbell

 

Dick Drago

 

Bob Watson

 

Tom Burgmeier

 

Oil Can Boyd

 

Mike Easler

 

Bill Buckner

 

Ellis Burks

 

Nick Esasky

 

Carlos Quintana

 

Danny Darwin

 

Tim Naehring

 

Troy O'Leary

 

Reggie Jefferson

 

Brian Daubech

 

Rich "El Guapo" Garces

 

Dante Bichete

 

Kevin Millar

 

Orlando Cabrera

 

Scott Williamson

 

Bill Hall

 

DMac

 

Cody Ross

 

Scott Atchison

 

Mike Carp

 

Daniel Nava

 

Koji Uehara

 

Steve Pearce

 

Nathan Eovaldi

 

My top 10 in RED

[moonslav59]

That actually is a pretty good call. Mueller might be about as underrated as it gets. The guy was an AL batting champion for the Sox, but who remembers that?

 

I remember Manny being the ultimate "team player" and sitting out the last game to allow Mueller to win it.

[kenmeister]

Here are some names to ponder...

 

Roger Moret

 

Bernie Carbo

 

Bill "Soup" Campbell

 

Dick Drago

 

Bob Watson

 

Tom Burgmeier

 

Oil Can Boyd

 

Mike Easler

 

Bill Buckner

 

Ellis Burks

 

Nick Esasky

 

Carlos Quintana

 

Danny Darwin

 

Tim Naehring

 

Troy O'Leary

 

Reggie Jefferson

 

Brian Daubech

 

Rich "El Guapo" Garces

 

Dante Bichete

 

Kevin Millar

 

Orlando Cabrera

 

Scott Williamson

 

Bill Hall

 

DMac

 

Cody Ross

 

Scott Atchison

 

Mike Carp

 

Daniel Nava

 

Koji Uehara

 

Steve Pearce

 

Nathan Eovaldi

 

My top 10 in RED

 

Steve Pearce just won the World Series MVP, he shouldn't be considered "under the radar". Otherwise good list. I'dd add Tom Brunansky and Jody Reed.

 

I'm assuming players like Mike Greenwell and John Valentin don't qualify either.

[cp176]

The story of Rogelio(sp) Moret was a very sad one. That was a man who really looked liked he was going to have an outstanding career.

Doug Griffin another one who could have solidified second base for us for such a long time had it not been for the beaning.

[Bellhorn04]

Curtis Leskanic

 

Kidding. But he did get 4 crucial outs in Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS. And those were the final pitches of his career. His arm was shot.

[S5Dewey]

Sox management could be such pricks back in those days.

 

I never understood why the FO couldn't acquiesce to Harris' request to pitch with his opposite hand. Harris was a guy who could come out of the pen and throw >100 innings/year during a time when the Sox were a .500-ish team. They could have allowed him to do it in a mop-up role in a game, he'd get the recognition, and the Sox would get the publicity. All he wanted was the guarantee that he'd be allowed to do it. Win/win. What's the big deal??

[sk7326]

The guy who achieved the most with the smallest amount of fame or acknowledgment.

 

This is pretty obvious - Dwight Evans. I mean everybody loved him - but he's 4th in team history in bWAR for position players. It is easy to overlook how extraordinary his career was and he warrants a harder HoF look.

[Dojji]

Evans got a lot of acknowledgement in New England though. Everyone here knows he ought to be in the Hall. He's an interesting pick but I'm actually going to suggest that he's not qualified on that basis

 

I'm going to go ahead and suggest that one Covelli Loyce "Coco" Crisp deserves some recognition in a thread like this. he was a magnificent defender in centerfield and made a huge contribution to the 2007 World Series including some absolutely jaw dropping defensive plays in the critical ALDS against the Guardians, but people are gonna look at his numbers and say "meh, just another guy." Heck, they did that while he was here.

[moonslav59]

I never understood why the FO couldn't acquiesce to Harris' request to pitch with his opposite hand. Harris was a guy who could come out of the pen and throw >100 innings/year during a time when the Sox were a .500-ish team. They could have allowed him to do it in a mop-up role in a game, he'd get the recognition, and the Sox would get the publicity. All he wanted was the guarantee that he'd be allowed to do it. Win/win. What's the big deal??

 

Exactly. The guy was very good, too.

 

The Sox had a pretty long history of letting big stars do what they want but shut down lesser players on lesser wants and needs.

[Jasonbay44]

I kind of want to say JD Drew. I see a lot of comments on Red Sox forums acting like he was awful besides a grand slam in the playoffs. He actually had a very good career here, he was just hated from day 1 and I will never understand why.

 

Hideki Okajima I often feel goes under appreciated, and maybe not for his career, but during 2013, Craig Breslow was fantastic

[Jasonbay44]

That actually is a pretty good call. Mueller might be about as underrated as it gets. The guy was an AL batting champion for the Sox, but who remembers that?

 

People also seem to forget he is the guy who go the hit to drive in Roberts. Roberts gets all the glory, but if Mueller doesn't single off Mariano Rivera there, that stolen base is for nothing. Mueller is one of my all time favorites. He also seemed like a very cool dude. after the 2004 world Series, I was very young at the time and wrote him some letters in the mail, he responded back to all of them and even autographed some cards for me.

[Dojji]

As time passes, Kevin Youkilis fits more and more into this category.

[notin]

People also seem to forget he is the guy who go the hit to drive in Roberts. Roberts gets all the glory, but if Mueller doesn't single off Mariano Rivera there, that stolen base is for nothing. Mueller is one of my all time favorites. He also seemed like a very cool dude. after the 2004 world Series, I was very young at the time and wrote him some letters in the mail, he responded back to all of them and even autographed some cards for me.

 

I thought that would be the one thing he was remembered for. Kevin Miller seems more forgotten for drawing the walk off Rivera...

[fxkatt]

Bernie Carbo and Bill Buckner would be at or near the top of my choices. No way that Drew would be anywhere near my top 25 list... not to cast aspersions.

[moonslav59]

Bernie Carbo and Bill Buckner would be at or near the top of my choices. No way that Drew would be anywhere near my top 25 list... not to cast aspersions.

 

I had Bernie & Buckner in my top 10.

 

Here's my rankings:

 

1. Bernie Carbo

2. Roger Moret

3. Bill Buckner

4. Oil Can Boyd

5, Daniel Nava

6.. Nick Esasky

7. Carlos Quintana

8. Orlando Cabrera

9. DMac

10. Kevin Millar

Others: Tom Brunansky, Bill Hall, Koji Uehara (did get some acclaim), Nathan Eovaldi

 

[fxkatt]

I had Bernie & Buckner in my top 10.

 

Here's my rankings:

 

1. Bernie Carbo

2. Roger Moret

3. Bill Buckner

4. Oil Can Boyd

5, Daniel Nava

6.. Nick Esasky

7. Carlos Quintana

8. Orlando Cabrera

9. DMac

10. Kevin Millar

Others: Tom Brunansky, Bill Hall, Koji Uehara (did get some acclaim), Nathan Eovaldi

 

 

Yup, yup. Boyd and Cabrera... and of course Koji and if going current, then the newbie Eovaldi for certain. A very good list, altho I must admit to not recalling Moret, and Esaski with much clarity at all...just the names.

[sk7326]

As time passes, Kevin Youkilis fits more and more into this category.

 

Yook was one of the league's very best offensive players. His injuries/decline was a development the team never really recovered from - and still hasn't (though Devers is on his way)

[moonslav59]

Yup, yup. Boyd and Cabrera... and of course Koji and if going current, then the newbie Eovaldi for certain. A very good list, altho I must admit to not recalling Moret, and Esaski with much clarity at all...just the names.

 

Roger Moret had tremendous talent. He went 13-2 and 14-3 in 2 of his 6 seasons with the Sox. He ended up going into a catatonic state sitting in front of his locker one day.

 

https://www.lavidabaseball.com/remembering-rogelio-moret/

 

Nick Esasky exploded in one season with the Sox: 30 HRs and 108 RBIs in 1989. He became a FA and signed with the Braves, but he only played in nine games for the Braves, as his career was cut short by an ear infection which caused vertigo.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Yook was one of the league's very best offensive players. His injuries/decline was a development the team never really recovered from - and still hasn't (though Devers is on his way)

 

I think he got a lot of cred when he played, so I left the Greek God of Walks off my list.

[sk7326]

I think he got a lot of cred when he played, so I left the Greek God of Walks off my list.

 

I think he got a lot of credit, but like in 2008-2010 he was like 3rd in the AL in OPS+. I mean we knew he was good - but he was actually better than that. I would not have picked Youk - but there is a mini version of my case for Dwight Evans in this thread.

[moonslav59]

I think he got a lot of credit, but like in 2008-2010 he was like 3rd in the AL in OPS+. I mean we knew he was good - but he was actually better than that. I would not have picked Youk - but there is a mini version of my case for Dwight Evans in this thread.

 

I get your point with both Evans and Youk, but I just think too many people recognized their great talent and they got credit for it.

 

True, they were often overshadowed by more glitzy or short term WOW players, but they were praised a lot.

 

Evans player fantastic defense for decades, and hit better and better as he aged.

 

Youk had 6 straight seasons over .373 OBP and 7 straight over an .800 OPS.

 

He fell fast and hard. That sucked.

[moonslav59]

Carlos Quintana started coming into his own at ages 24 -25 with the Sox.

 

He didn't show much power for a 1Bman, but he did his .291 with a .364 OBP from 1990-1991. (18 HRs in 990 ABs)

 

In February 1992, Quintana was involved in an automobile accident in town of Tacarigua de Mamporal, Venezuela while rushing his two brothers to a hospital after they were shot at a party. In the accident, Quintana broke his left arm and his right big toe and his wife Solys broke both of her legs. The injuries caused Quintana to miss the entire 1992 season.

 

He tried a comeback but never made it back.

 

I almost listed Jeff Gray. He came to us from Cincy and pitched great for the 1991 season.

 

0.795 WHIP in 61.2 IP (one of the best in Sox history)

2.34 ERA

 

On July 30, 1991, Gray was preparing to go out onto the field for his daily routine. He never made it, as his right side went numb, and he suffered what was diagnosed as a kind of stroke (CVA), ending what had been a brilliant season. One of the best middle relievers of the league at this time, he allowed only 39 hits in 61 ⅔ innings as he had a 2.34 ERA. On the other hand, opposing batters hit a .181 average against him (LH .200, RH .161), the best of any reliever, outside of Bryan Harvey. He also went down in July and still finished third in the league with 19 holds.

 

Gray missed the rest of the 1991 and 1992 seasons while recuperating from the stroke. He attempted to return to baseball over the following two seasons,[1] but had lost a lot of velocity on his fastball[2] and was never able to return to the majors.

 

 

 

[kenmeister]

I get your point with both Evans and Youk, but I just think too many people recognized their great talent and they got credit for it.

 

True, they were often overshadowed by more glitzy or short term WOW players, but they were praised a lot.

 

Evans player fantastic defense for decades, and hit better and better as he aged.

 

Youk had 6 straight seasons over .373 OBP and 7 straight over an .800 OPS.

 

He fell fast and hard. That sucked.

 

I agree with Moonslav. Evans, Youkillis, Greenwell, Burks, Valentin, Oil Can Boyd I think are all properly remembered. Nick Esasky, wow, I forgot about him.

 

How about Trot Nixon?