Machado: asshole? Dirty player? Both?

[cp176]

That is instant, slo-mo replay. That is not a rule change. That has nothing to do with a rule change. Out was always out. That we can see some plays with greater definition has nothing to do with the rule! Pedey was specifically talking about THE RULE CHANGE supposedly designed to protect infielders.

 

One of those unwritten rules absolutely unless you truly believe that every umpire who witnessed players leaving the bag early or not even touching the bag were simply just blind. My point which I guess I wasn't clear about was that by using slo mo replay to make sure that an infielders foot made contact with that bag coupled with the rule change (trust me I'm familiar with it) was supposed to give an infielder some protection that he did not have before . If replay is insisted upon in this situation and the sliding rule is not enforced at some point in time it is very likely that a middle infielder is going to get hurt. The only rule change I was even remotely referring to was the sliding rules meant to protect.

[Kimmi]

Honestly I think it would be better to avoid any incidents with Machado. Don't want to stir anybody up and mess with any mojo. Just keep playing great ball and kicking ass on the scoreboard.

 

Exactly.

[Kimmi]

Sometimes the difference between a hard - nosed competitor and a dirty player comes down to which uniform they are wearing.

 

There is some truth to this, but I don't think it holds in the case of Machado.

[Kimmi]

I think the League should be quick to suspend a pitcher or slider when they are quite certain this was intentional. That would put a damper on retaliation.

 

Anytime you leave it in the hands of the umpires to rule on 'intent', it becomes a sticky situation.

 

FTR, I am 100% in favor of retaliation, done the right way, in order to protect your teammates.

[Bellhorn04]

No , but it is still sports entertainment. There are similarities , at least for the fans.

 

Yeah, Manny's hijinks are all in good fun, till someone gets a knee ripped up.

[oldtimer]

Machado is an excellent defensive SS with a very stron arm. He also hits very well. Saying that, I would not want him at the money he will command on the FA market. There are a lot of teams that would want him, but I can't see the Sox as being one of them. Maybe the White Sox?

[jung]

One of those unwritten rules absolutely unless you truly believe that every umpire who witnessed players leaving the bag early or not even touching the bag were simply just blind. My point which I guess I wasn't clear about was that by using slo mo replay to make sure that an infielders foot made contact with that bag coupled with the rule change (trust me I'm familiar with it) was supposed to give an infielder some protection that he did not have before . If replay is insisted upon in this situation and the sliding rule is not enforced at some point in time it is very likely that a middle infielder is going to get hurt. The only rule change I was even remotely referring to was the sliding rules meant to protect.

 

Insisting that sliding runners must hit the ground before the bag is the one clarification to the rules that should in certain instances save some injury. Even the clarification about sliding past the bag won't save anything. Think about it. If the runner slides past the bag, he has missed hitting the infielder. That particular infielder is standing there tagging him out as he goes past.

 

The rest was a consequence of umpires not enforcing the existing rules.

 

Umpires would not enforce the rules about a base runner's path to the bag. They simply would not do it. The result of that was runners chasing 2nd basemen almost to the infield grass and chasing Shortstops almost to the OF grass the other way. This filtered all the way down to high level organized scholastic and other ball where either me or my Shortstop got chased one way or the other by runners constantly. There is nothing out there away from the bag but flesh and blood infielders. So where were these baserunners going? Its not like baseball lined up two extra, auxiliary bags left and right of 2nd base for runners. So instead of enforcing the rules they had, we got the phantom out at 2nd. Baseball logic at its best (ie. two wrongs make a right):

A) We won't enforce the rules we have and make calls

We will screw up another rule because of the call we won't make and thus make another call in error

 

Slo-mo replay forced the umpires to their knees on this one. They were forced to pay attention to the fielder's position as he took the ball to turn the DP. Slo-mo meant the umps would be caught not paying attention to the fielder's positioning as he attempted to turn the DP and that made a huge dif at the ML level and frankly has meant a marked improvement at all levels which of course supports the idea that the umps could actually see if the fielder had the bag and the ball at the same time a very high percentage of the time. Its not every class of baseball that has slo-mo.

 

So forcing runners to hit the ground before they hit the bag is really the only change of all of those made that might save infielders. The rest is all clap trap that has had the effect of making fielders "feel" safer when in fact they are not. Pedey is right about the effect on infield play. It has encouraged infielders to sloppy footwork around 2nd base with fielders feeling like they are protected by a rule. FAT CHANCE!

 

Frankly, the only thing that has actually changed the number of injuries around the bag is the head first slide. Now its runners getting injured at a higher rate than they used to be injured. But looking at foot first slides around the bag, frankly I don't see a difference. I see at least a spiked infielder about once in 20 games and given how many head first slides there are, that seems about right to me. A spiked infielder is really about one inch from an infielder with a broken ankle or damaged knee. So I am not convinced much of anything has changed that would not be attributed to the head first slide.

[mvp 78]

Think about it. If the runner slides past the bag, he has missed hitting the infielder. That particular infielder is standing there tagging him out as he goes past.

 

Uh wut? Pedroia was injured solely because Machado slid past the bag.

[moonslav59]

More reasons to hate Machado....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/red-sox-knew-manny-machado-was-stealing-signs-from-2b-in-game-2-of-world-series/ar-BBOW2GL?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

[notin]

More reasons to hate Machado....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/red-sox-knew-manny-machado-was-stealing-signs-from-2b-in-game-2-of-world-series/ar-BBOW2GL?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

 

Actually that’s probably one of his least reprehensible actions. In fact, I don’t mind sign stealing if teams are going to be stupid enough to allow it to happen to them...

[oldtimer]

Actually that’s probably one of his least reprehensible actions. In fact, I don’t mind sign stealing if teams are going to be stupid enough to allow it to happen to them...

 

I don't think I like the idea of electronic means of sign stealing.

[YastrzemskI]

Another lovely play by Machado tonight... can MLB take action here??

[tombirner]

Another lovely play by Machado tonight... can MLB take action here??

 

Hopefully tonight is a blowout (in our favor) and someone can drill him. We owe him TWICE now.

 

What an absolute turd.

[oldtimer]

Hopefully tonight is a blowout (in our favor) and someone can drill him. We owe him TWICE now.

 

What an absolute turd.

 

Looks like he would make a perfect Yankee.

[Slasher9]

Another lovely play by Machado tonight... can MLB take action here??

 

It’s amazing to me that every other player in the MLB can run through first base WITHOUT stepping on the 1bman’s foot.

Machado is a slimy,dirty little bitch that will look perfect in pinstripes for the next 10 years.....

[cp176]

Machado is why there are those unwritten rules in baseball. MLB won't stop him so at some point in time someone is going to. He is going to get drilled big time and once again mlb will act too late and the new age fan will bitch and moan that there should not be such archaic rules and approaches to this game. Let's see, what would someone we all know say - do your job!

[Bellhorn04]

Manny the Menace!

 

The guy is unbelievable.

[Slasher9]

Machado is why there are those unwritten rules in baseball. MLB won't stop him so at some point in time someone is going to. He is going to get drilled big time and once again mlb will act too late and the new age fan will bitch and moan that there should not be such archaic rules and approaches to this game. Let's see, what would someone we all know say - do your job!

 

Solid post. It may not be until next year but Manny will get drilled by the Sox. No doubt

[jung]

Solid post. It may not be until next year but Manny will get drilled by the Sox. No doubt

 

If the teams he plays for keep posting him up at Shortstop he is going to get more than drilled. He should hope for a drilling if they keep playing him at Short.

[cp176]

Solid post. It may not be until next year but Manny will get drilled by the Sox. No doubt

 

Believe it or not, to I'm about the last person who would ever want to see something like this happen and I try to give every great athlete the benefit of the doubt. He has convinced me that there is more to him than simply wanting to do what it takes to win. What he is doing really is saying quite a bit about who he is and what his true character is. It is borderline criminal and until he really pays a price this s*** will continue to happen.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Anytime you leave it in the hands of the umpires to rule on 'intent', it becomes a sticky situation.

 

FTR, I am 100% in favor of retaliation, done the right way, in order to protect your teammates.

 

Machado has left over 30 baserunners on base. Why would one want to wake him up? Manny doesn't accept failure well; he's an immature idiot. He'll get his eventually.

[S5Dewey]

Machado is why there are those unwritten rules in baseball. MLB won't stop him so at some point in time someone is going to. He is going to get drilled big time and once again mlb will act too late and the new age fan will bitch and moan that there should not be such archaic rules and approaches to this game. Let's see, what would someone we all know say - do your job!

 

He could have destroyed Pearce's achilles tendon if he'd been inches higher.

 

If he keeps blocking the bag on steals like in did to Mookie in game 1 he's going to come away with bloody legs. And I won't shed any tears. What goes around comes around.

[Emp9]

I will seriously question any team that signs him (yes, including the Sox).

[Bellhorn04]

I will seriously question any team that signs him (yes, including the Sox).

 

It's the craziest big ticket free agent showcase ever seen.

[YastrzemskI]

I will seriously question any team that signs him (yes, including the Sox).

 

I want no part of this guy on the Red Sox. It would be best for baseball if he went back to purse snatching down the street. I remember a play with the A’s when Donaldson tagged him running from 2nd to 3rd and Machado got all bent, threw his helmet off, as if Donaldson should have just let him reach 3rd.. then he got in Donaldson’s face. Next season, someone needs to throw a fastball where it hurts him most.. and I hope it’s the Red Sox.. they’d be doing MLB a favor.

[oldtimer]

He could have destroyed Pearce's achilles tendon if he'd been inches higher.

 

If he keeps blocking the bag on steals like in did to Mookie in game 1 he's going to come away with bloody legs. And I won't shed any tears. What goes around comes around.

 

I still am not in favor of throwing at anyone's head as it is just using reprehensible behavior to solve a problem. MLBB should really go after a repeat offender with more than fines. I would see a suspension of multiple days and loss of salary as being fair. Saying that, I am not against hitting a guy from the butt down.

[S5Dewey]

I will seriously question any team that signs him (yes, including the Sox).

 

I keep hoping he'll bet picked up by a NL team. That way he won't get yet another shot at our players. Worst case scenario is that he gets picked up by a team in the AL East. I don't think our depth chart would stand that.

[moonslav59]

I keep hoping he'll bet picked up by a NL team. That way he won't get yet another shot at our players. Worst case scenario is that he gets picked up by a team in the AL East. I don't think our depth chart would stand that.

 

I hope the Yankees get him. Seriously, I do.

 

He's a cancer that will drain their budget and force a cliff on them.

 

If he takes out one of our middle IF'ers, we'll get back at 'em.

 

[Northern Star]

Please, no. Just no.

 

This. I don't want him on my team. He's a dirtbag.

[jung]

I don't even know that I want to mention this but here goes:

I don't believe in throwing at somebodies head either. There have been particular nut case pitchers over the entire long history of baseball that have thrown at the head but they are so rare its not even worth talking about. Usually pitchers that hit somebody in the head are throwing up and in and a pitch gets away from them. Its not intentional, virtually never intentional especially in the modern era.

 

Having been drilled in this particular spot before, if a pitcher wants to send a message and stay completely away from the head forget hitting the player in the butt. If you get drilled in the side under the heart or around the liver (depending on what side you bat from) it takes your breadth away. Been hit there more than once and and even if you are not hit just right, if you are drilled it really hurts. The boring two seam inside tends to get under the arm and into your rib cage and you can't get out of the way of it because it keeps boring in on you. If you are drilled just right and it does take your breadth away, you think you are going to die for about a second. But, you will be OK which sort of is the idea right. You will however know you have been drilled for a couple days afterward. The pitcher is truly "sending a message" with that pitch. You are for the most crawling not walking to first base to take your base.

 

But as I have said before, Manny is a different case. If the team he plays for keeps playing him at Short given Manny's antics around the bags and with the bat, some player might be just crazy enough (as crazy as Manny is) to get him that way. Somebody is going to careen not into the blocking leg at 2nd base but into that locked knee he hangs out there that he is no longer agile enough to get out of the way. Completely legal slide based on today's rules.