Brock Holt -- our answer at second base?

[Dojji]

Reviewing the options we might have for 2B in trade, one of the things that jumped out at me is that in terms of raw slash stats, not too many of them are clearly superior to the guy we have out there right now. Of the guys out there available for trade (meaning, not guys who we merely think should be available like LeMahieu and Dozier but players actually being dangled) the only obviously superior options are Cabrera and Machado.

 

Holt isn't a superstar by any means but I certainly don't mind him hitting 8th and 9th, or even occasionally second. He gives us the luxury of having a replacement level guy who can make contact with the baseball and not embarrass himself with his glove. This prevents us from making stupid desperation trades to further drain our farm, and if we need to save our ammunition to bring in a durable lower rotation starter instead, he gives us that luxury too, since he can provide ~1 WAR level coverage at a position where it can actually be pretty hard to find guys much above replacement level.

 

In other words, he gives us options to limit the damage of what IMHO is looking like a but of a seller's market at the deadline. And it's worth pondering given the injuries to our rotation whether it might be the course of wisdom to pass on filling the adequately-covered hole on the roster and move towards filling other more obvious holes, like 5th starter.

 

If things fall through and we can't upgrade at 2B, I'm certainly comfortable with rolling with Holt and upgrading other parts of the team instead. I doubt I'm the only one here. Which since it's a serious possibility if the prices on the trade market don't come down a bit, I think it's fair to consider the possibility that that is exactly what happens.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Dojji

[illinoisredsox]

Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

 

Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.

[oldtimer]

The priorities are in the pitching department. Holt is a keeper but not as an everyday player. We will not be able to fill every position where we have a need so maybe Phillips comes in to help for this year if he shows up in AAA. Otherwise a starter is needed and one or two relief pitchers, letting our worst go. Catcher is also still up in the air until later in August. If we can get by until then, Vaz will become available and the need will be reduced. If Leon is injured in the interim, we would be forced to act.

[Emp9]

Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

 

Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.

 

I love under the radar, minor moves like this. He seems very motivated too.

[Slasher9]

Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

 

Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.

This.

[notin]

Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

 

Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.

 

Who goes to make room for Phillips?

[moonslav59]

Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

 

Besides, it appears Brandon Phillips is getting close. He’s not the all-star he once was but he will be a upgrade defensively at 2nd.

 

Holt worked out heavily this past off season and added bulk. It may have helped him build stamina.

 

I've been suggesting we trade Holt for years, but he's earning his right to continue playing a lot and to show the endurance question has been solved.

 

It's nice to have Phillips as depth, but I'm thinking we should keep things as is, for now.

[S5Dewey]

Holt worked out heavily this past off season and added bulk. It may have helped him build stamina.

 

I've been suggesting we trade Holt for years, but he's earning his right to continue playing a lot and to show the endurance question has been solved.

 

It's nice to have Phillips as depth, but I'm thinking we should keep things as is, for now.

 

This.

 

Holt's role never was supposed to be what it is now that Pedey's out for the season (?). No, he's not an all-star defensively but he's batting just under .300 with an OPS of ~.750. Who are we going to trade for that's available and we can afford who's going to be any better?

[illinoisredsox]

Who goes to make room for Phillips?

 

Probably Lin.

[Kimmi]

I agree with every post in this thread.

[Dojji]

Holt can’t play every day; he wears down.

 

He doesn't have to. Teams carry backup middle infielders for a reason. MI's get rested more regularly than most other position players, and we have some good replacement level guys like Lin and Nunez, and possibly Phillips down the road.

 

But if he can play 3-4 games out of 5 and leave the rest to the bench guys, that's probably good enough to provide at least some value out of the second base position.

[SoxnCycles]

I agree with every post in this thread.

 

I don't know.

 

Slash's last post is very controversial.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

It is hard to get excited about Phillips. He didn't play particularly well for the Angels last season. His OPS+ has been under 100 for several seasons in a row. In fact, you have to go back to 2011 to find a season in which his OPS+ was above 100. His defense has declined. He is 37 and so he isn't getting better--he is getting worse. He doesn't have exceptional splits against lefties (over the last 3 seasons), thus a Holt/Phillips platoon doesn't seem like a good idea with Phillips playing exclusively against lefties.

 

True, Phillips is probably better than Nunez, but that is because Nunez is a complete train wreck.

 

Holt is better than Phillips and Nunez, but I would look to upgrade the offense and save Holt for that utility role. I would trade for Cabrera. The difference between Cabrera, on the one hand, and Nunez and Phillips, on the other, is night and day. Over the last four seasons, Cabrera's OPS+ has been over 100. He is 32 years old--still young enough. Cabrera would give the Red Sox some extra offense on those days when Betts and Martinez are not carrying the club. Cabrera would be a high priority upgrade; not only should the Red Sox trade for him--they should resign him in the offseason.

 

It is tempting to release Nunez, he has certainly earned it, but he has 4 million coming to him next year and can play several different positions (albeit not that well). Nunez goes to the bench -- no more starts for Nunez.

 

The key isn't to give Holt more or less playing time, the key is to demote Nunez to the bench, trade for Cabrera, and play Holt at various positions, giving the starters a day of rest and keeping them fresh.

 

The Mets have two players the Red Sox could use--Wheeler and Cabrera. Get it done, Dave.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Fan_since_Boggs

[dgalehouse]

I think it is almost a certainty that Phillips will be up soon. Then , either Lin or a bullpen arm goes down.

[Dojji]

There's a distinct possibility that Lin is better than Phillips at this point in their respective careers

 

I am not excited by the onset of the Brandon Phillips era.

[Slasher9]

I don't know.

 

Slash's last post is very controversial.

 

I’m a DB.

 

[Spudboy]

Holt worked out heavily this past off season and added bulk. It may have helped him build stamina.

 

I've been suggesting we trade Holt for years, but he's earning his right to continue playing a lot and to show the endurance question has been solved.

 

It's nice to have Phillips as depth, but I'm thinking we should keep things as is, for now.

 

I'm with you Moon. I am not sure how and if the increase in bulk will help keep him productive but I am fine with Holt playing the majority of available innings at 2nd.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Spudboy

[SoxnCycles]

I’m a DB.

 

 

Aren't we all!

[Spudboy]

Defensive Back?

 

I'm lost.

[Kimmi]

There's a distinct possibility that Lin is better than Phillips at this point in their respective careers

 

I am not excited by the onset of the Brandon Phillips era.

 

Phillips may amount to nothing, but there's always the chance that he could play well enough to earn most of the starts at 2B, allowing Holt to return to more of a super utility role. I'm kind of excited to see what Phillips has to offer. If he stinks, nothing lost.

[Kimmi]

Aren't we all!

 

Umm, speak for yourselves.

 

I'm sweet and lovable.

[vegasbob]

Who goes to make room for Phillips?

 

There will be a DL candidate available, I am sure, the way things are trending, plus the rosters expand for Sept.

[moonslav59]

I'm with you Moon. I am not sure how and if the increase in bulk will help keep him productive but I am fine with Holt playing the majority of available innings at 2nd.

 

If he starts to decline, then we'll have to look at Lin/Nunez and decide if we need to try Phillips or make a trade. The waiver wire date is a long ways away, and we should know more by then.

[oldtimer]

If he starts to decline, then we'll have to look at Lin/Nunez and decide if we need to try Phillips or make a trade. The waiver wire date is a long ways away, and we should know more by then.

 

In the planning for next year, I would definitely be looking for a prime or younger candidate to play 2nd for us. During the discussions about Pedroia early on, I was probably the least optimistic, thinking he would probably come back just after the AS break while others were talking May. We all were wrong and I don't believe we should take the risk for next season again. We need to pick up a FA or trade for a quality guy that can at least reliably play average 2nd base ball for us.

[notin]

There will be a DL candidate available, I am sure, the way things are trending, plus the rosters expand for Sept.

 

Phillips cannot be brought up in September until he is added to the 40-man roster first. Someone has to go from that to make room for him too. ..

[moonslav59]

Phillips cannot be brought up in September until he is added to the 40-man roster first. Someone has to go from that to make room for him too. ..

 

We have 2-3 players we could DFA without losing much.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know Brandon Phillips was in the Sox system. I don't pay a lot of attention to the minor leagues. I honestly thought he had retired.

[moonslav59]

I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know Brandon Phillips was in the Sox system. I don't pay a lot of attention to the minor leagues. I honestly thought he had retired.

 

He may. wish he did.

[Kimmi]

In the planning for next year, I would definitely be looking for a prime or younger candidate to play 2nd for us. During the discussions about Pedroia early on, I was probably the least optimistic, thinking he would probably come back just after the AS break while others were talking May. We all were wrong and I don't believe we should take the risk for next season again. We need to pick up a FA or trade for a quality guy that can at least reliably play average 2nd base ball for us.

 

I know I was very optimistic about Pedroia returning, but it doesn't appear that we'll see him again this year.

 

As far as signing a 2B for next year, I think it would be kind of difficult to sign a full time 2B unless they know for sure that Pedroia won't be returning. Having guys like Holt and Nunez are perfect complements to Pedroia. That said, I think Dombrowski has to plan for possibly needing to acquire a 2B midseason next year.

[S5Dewey]

I know I was very optimistic about Pedroia returning, but it doesn't appear that we'll see him again this year.

 

As far as signing a 2B for next year, I think it would be kind of difficult to sign a full time 2B unless they know for sure that Pedroia won't be returning. Having guys like Holt and Nunez are perfect complements to Pedroia. That said, I think Dombrowski has to plan for possibly needing to acquire a 2B midseason next year.

 

As I said earlier, it's the perfect time for Pedey to retire as a hero (to everyone but MVP ). He should forego his remaining salary as a player and then sign on with the Sox as a coach for the same pay. Win/win.