Dave Dombrowski

[Spudboy]

Any GM could have signed Koji Uehara before the 2013 season too. Does Ben deserve a lot of credit for being the guy who actually did it? Damn right IMO. If you can't give someone credit for pulling the trigger on a good move, what can you give credit for?

 

Delivering a good latte.

[moonslav59]

No, he had WAR numbers of 0.5 and -0.2 in 2015 and 2017 (see what I did there), which is closer to terrible than ok (I don't want to turn this into another 'WAR is worthless' argument, but yeah.., just please everybody at least put a prefix letter in front)

 

In 2017 his ERA+ was somehow average, which seems ok, so I thought that's what you were referring to, but his peripherals were mostly worse, his FIP was a good bit worse, because he led the league in HR allowed, and his WHIP was worse (almost 1.4) and his bWAR was worse (negative even), so maybe 2015 then, but his fWAR was better in 2017, so maybe 2017, but if you prefer fWAR then you should prefer FIP, so maybe 2015, so yeah I had no idea which one was ok. I'll upgrade his two 'terrible' seasons to 'pretty bad'. Terrible was too harsh, he could've definitely been worse.

 

I thought the extension was a bad move at the time and I still think it was a bad move (if he was allowed to become a FA, what would he have got on the open market). Although I think it's worked out just fine so far.

 

Fair enough.

 

Pretty bad- not terrible for 2 of the 4 years.

[Kimmi]

You believe that we overpaid for Sale?

 

In terms of what I think we probably could have gotten him for and in terms of our need for an ace at that time, yes.

 

That said, I'm not upset by the trade for Sale, in and of itself. As I've said many times, it's the magnitude of the prospects traded away in such a short period of time.

[Kimmi]

I think FanGraphs would argue yes. They have an 8 WAR player worth about $65 million.

 

Factor in present value considerations and all that, and I'd say you're winning or breaking even.

 

Fair enough.

[Kimmi]

That's a pretty big drop from year five being an MVP type player to year 6 being replacement level. I certainly would be happy with five years of MVP quality from Mookie followed by a (IMO) more reasonable assumption of a decline over the next five years to the point of being slightly above average. And that's what I think we'd be getting.

 

Well, the drop off typically starts around age 30, so I was probably being overly optimistic with the first five years. By the same token, I was probably being overly pessimistic on the back end. However, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that we see a sharp decline around age 33 or 34.

[Kimmi]

For a guy like Mookie, I would also look at the “MVP type” year(s) he’s already given us on the cheap. No? I cld be wrong. Wouldn’t we be paying atleast some of a huge contract for what he did prior?

 

That is usually the case.

[Kimmi]

I’m of the opinion that an Ace #1 SP is worth more to any team than a Closer. The amount of innings thrown alone, on principle...

 

I don’t think we over paid for Sale. I love Kimbrel but I do think it was an over pay and maybe cart before the horse in a way too. I’m not saying Kimbrel was a bad move, especially in hindsight, but when I compare both the Kimbrel & Sale moves side by side, on principle, one trade was clearly better than the other.

 

Absolutely. Kimbrel was most definitely an overpay, in double whammy form. Both prospects and money.

[a700hitter]

Delivering a good latte.

Every organization needs someone to fill that role.

[Kimmi]

Sometimes you end up with the Mastersons though.

 

Sometimes, but that's the job of the FO to be able to find the Beltres, Napolis, etc.

 

You can also spend a lot of money and end up with the Crawfords and the Sandovals.

 

At least with the Mastersons, it's usually only 1 or 2 years for a much smaller amount.

[Kimmi]

Sometimes you end up with the Mastersons though.

 

FTR, I was completely on board with re-signing Masterson.

[Kimmi]

Any GM could have signed Koji Uehara before the 2013 season too. Does Ben deserve a lot of credit for being the guy who actually did it? Damn right IMO. If you can't give someone credit for pulling the trigger on a good move, what can you give credit for?

 

For pulling a good move without blowing up the farm.

[Kimmi]

We have the best team in baseball. But it is hard to please everybody.

 

But some are sadly lamenting the loss of the Javier Guerras from our once ripe farm crop.

 

These are the types of comments that are made when one knows the other person has a valid argument.

[Kimmi]

Not much has been said about how DD signed Cora before the Yankees had a shot at him. The Yanks wound up settling for Booney. The results speak for themselves.

 

I have given Dombrowski credit for signing Cora since day one.

 

For picking up LaRussa shortly afterward, not so much.

[oldtimer]

Albert Pujols, through the age of 30, was worth an average of 7.73 WAR per year.

 

After the age of 30 through the present, he has been worth an average of 1.36 WAR per year.

 

Even worse, from the age of 32 through the present, he has been worth a mere .6 WAR each year, on average.

 

I know someone in the Cardinal's organization that swears that Pujols was older than reported by several years. They were glad to see him go!

[Kimmi]

I know someone in the Cardinal's organization that swears that Pujols was older than reported by several years. They were glad to see him go!

 

That is quite possible.

 

In which case, better news for proponents of 10 years for Mookie.

[cp176]

Cora has done s***.

 

Lets see if he gets us out of the first round of playoffs and talk about how good Cora is.

 

And I'm a Cora fan boy. Super glad he got thrown out during the attempted Mookie beaming...... it was the right thing to do. I just wished he went out and knowcked out Severino after being tossed.

 

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones here because I look at just getting to the playoffs as a much greater feat than actually winning once you get there. In my opinion, it is by far a much tougher job to keep a team motivated, moving , and winning throughout the course of the regular season. Slightly above average teams have lucked out on more than one occasion and come out big winners. Get me to the dance - small or big - and I'm proud and happy as well. It is nice to win it all but I will never judge a player or coach based on what they do in the payoffs. Once again the opinion that some have that if you don't win it all then you are not successful is a totally hot dose of stinking ******** the way I see things. In the playoffs which I think are far too long anyway, anything can happen. The best teams don't always win. Too much luck involved. Once again it is just me, but maybe that is why I think that Cora right now is a far better coach then we have seen in some time and also that our General Manager is equally as good.

[dgalehouse]

I have given Dombrowski credit for signing Cora since day one.

 

For picking up LaRussa shortly afterward, not so much.

 

Tony LaRussa has three rings , something you seem to value , but then who needs a Hall of Fame baseball man when you can find some computer nerd who knows much more about the game.

[moonslav59]

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones here because I look at just getting to the playoffs as a much greater feat than actually winning once you get there. In my opinion, it is by far a much tougher job to keep a team motivated, moving , and winning throughout the course of the regular season. Slightly above average teams have lucked out on more than one occasion and come out big winners. Get me to the dance - small or big - and I'm proud and happy as well. It is nice to win it all but I will never judge a player or coach based on what they do in the payoffs. Once again the opinion that some have that if you don't win it all then you are not successful is a totally hot dose of stinking ******** the way I see things. In the playoffs which I think are far too long anyway, anything can happen. The best teams don't always win. Too much luck involved. Once again it is just me, but maybe that is why I think that Cora right now is a far better coach then we have seen in some time and also that our General Manager is equally as good.

 

Well said, even though I really love those rings more...luck and all.

[cp176]

Well said, even though I really love those rings more...luck and all.

 

Thanks - and I do appreciate people who feel this way. I love those rings too but I still feel that you have to be damn lucky to get one even if you are the far better team.

[moonslav59]

Thanks - and I do appreciate people who feel this way. I love those rings too but I still feel that you have to be damn lucky to get one even if you are the far better team.

 

That is so true, but the immense satisfaction felt after getting that last out is such a joy.

 

Maybe it's suffering through all those near misses for decades that gave me the mindset of being willing to sell my soul for a ring that made me the way I am.

 

I do greatly appreciate the season struggle to just make the playoffs. Certainly suffering through a season where we're out of it my August or sooner sucks bigtime, especially when hopes were high at the start of those seasons, but I'll take one more ring this year, even if it means we finish in last place next year.

 

I'm with you on not blaming the manager or players for coming up short in the playoffs. I know how much luck factors into it.

 

I was never down on JF for our early playoff exits. I was never down on Price for struggling in a couple playoff games with the Sox.

[cp176]

That is so true, but the immense satisfaction felt after getting that last out is such a joy.

 

Maybe it's suffering through all those near misses for decades that gave me the mindset of being willing to sell my soul for a ring that made me the way I am.

 

I do greatly appreciate the season struggle to just make the playoffs. Certainly suffering through a season where we're out of it my August or sooner sucks bigtime, especially when hopes were high at the start of those seasons, but I'll take one more ring this year, even if it means we finish in last place next year.

 

I'm with you on not blaming the manager or players for coming up short in the playoffs. I know how much luck factors into it.

 

I was never down on JF for our early playoff exits. I was never down on Price for struggling in a couple playoff games with the Sox.

 

I'm with you here for sure.

[sk7326]

The Red Sox have one of the league's two best players entering free agency once he turns 28 ... free agents of that age and quality (assuming he is healthy) just don't hit the market that often. But the Red Sox will certainly be in a good position to do something.

[sk7326]

That is so true, but the immense satisfaction felt after getting that last out is such a joy.

 

Maybe it's suffering through all those near misses for decades that gave me the mindset of being willing to sell my soul for a ring that made me the way I am.

 

I do greatly appreciate the season struggle to just make the playoffs. Certainly suffering through a season where we're out of it my August or sooner sucks bigtime, especially when hopes were high at the start of those seasons, but I'll take one more ring this year, even if it means we finish in last place next year.

 

I'm with you on not blaming the manager or players for coming up short in the playoffs. I know how much luck factors into it.

 

I was never down on JF for our early playoff exits. I was never down on Price for struggling in a couple playoff games with the Sox.

 

Rings are what teams play for. At the same time - the playoffs are SO wild that you have to take a zen approach. I mean - the reason the Sox Curse always felt more authentic to me than the Cubbies one was that (since 1967) the Red Sox were usually really good.

 

I mean, I've seen an 82-79 team win the World Series and a 116-46 team not able to make the World Series. You just hope you have a great month.

[cp176]

Rings are what teams play for. At the same time - the playoffs are SO wild that you have to take a zen approach. I mean - the reason the Sox Curse always felt more authentic to me than the Cubbies one was that (since 1967) the Red Sox were usually really good.

 

I mean, I've seen an 82-79 team win the World Series and a 116-46 team not able to make the World Series. You just hope you have a great month.

 

This is pretty much what I have been saying . It is why I place so much significance on the regular season. I have not been spoiled. I'll take what ever we get once we get to the playoffs. Winning it all requires a great deal of luck during the second season.

[sk7326]

Put another way - there has never been a team which I would taken vs the field once the playoffs start ...

[a700hitter]

Absolutely. Kimbrel was most definitely an overpay, in double whammy form. Both prospects and money.

His salary is below market.

[a700hitter]

Sometimes you end up with the Mastersons though.

Or Smoltz. I remember the anticipation of his debut and he took a giant s*** on the mound against the Yankees. I think we were blown out by the 2nd inning. He was through.

[S5Dewey]

Or Smoltz. I remember the anticipation of his debut and he took a giant s*** on the mound against the Yankees. I think we were blown out by the 2nd inning. He was through.

 

...and I bought a Smoltz T-shirt in anticipation of him being great in Boston.

 

As I keep saying, what do I know?

[a700hitter]

...and I bought a Smoltz T-shirt in anticipation of him being great in Boston.

 

As I keep saying, what do I know?

We bought the hype. They said that he could get by with diminished stuff, because he had the great curve ball and he was so smart. he didn't look so smart turning around to see where the rockets were landing.

[moonslav59]

His salary is below market.

 

Yes, now it is, but at the time of the trade it was about what the market value was.

 

I have mentioned how this fact has changed my initial view of the trade, which I originally hated.

 

I still think it was an overpay, but the financial part was not bad.