Dave Dombrowski

[Bellhorn04]

Pearce and Kinsler looking like pretty nifty work by Dave.

[a700hitter]

Pearce and Kinsler looking like pretty nifty work by Dave.

I am liking it.

[moonslav59]

There's a whole lot to like!

 

DD da man!

[oldtimer]

Pearce and Kinsler looking like pretty nifty work by Dave.

 

Eovaldi didn't do badly either.

[iortiz]

There's a whole lot to like!

 

DD da man!

You betcha!

[Bellhorn04]

Kinsler actually has borderline HOF numbers in terms of WAR. He showed why last night. He hits the ball all over the place, he's got some pop, and his defense is stellar. That second big play he made last night was unreal.

[sk7326]

Kinsler actually has borderline HOF numbers in terms of WAR. He showed why last night. He hits the ball all over the place, he's got some pop, and his defense is stellar. That second big play he made last night was unreal.

 

It was the sort of play we haven't seen since more vintage Pedey.

[Kimmi]

Pearce and Kinsler looking like pretty nifty work by Dave.

 

I have to give Dombrowski a lot of credit for his midseason acquisitions, not only this year, but with Nunez last year and Ziegler the year before. He seems to have that knack.

 

I am one who didn't think we needed to get a 2B, but his play last night was refreshing to see. I love the huge smile on his face coming off the field when all of his teammates were high-fiving him for his outstanding play.

[sk7326]

I have to give Dombrowski a lot of credit for his midseason acquisitions, not only this year, but with Nunez last year and Ziegler the year before. He seems to have that knack.

 

I am one who didn't think we needed to get a 2B, but his play last night was refreshing to see. I love the huge smile on his face coming off the field when all of his teammates were high-fiving him for his outstanding play.

 

Without prime prospects to offer - Dombrowski has extracted a ton of value. He has taken advantage of Boston's other virtue - the ability to absorb money.

[Kimmi]

Without prime prospects to offer - Dombrowski has extracted a ton of value. He has taken advantage of Boston's other virtue - the ability to absorb money.

 

He has indeed. Dombrowski has done an excellent job for the short term teams. As one of his critics, I have never denied that.

[sk7326]

He has indeed. Dombrowski has done an excellent job for the short term teams. As one of his critics, I have never denied that.

 

There hasn't been mortgaging of the future either. Really - the team's ability to navigate the future is ultimately on Henry's pocketbook.

[Kimmi]

There hasn't been mortgaging of the future either. Really - the team's ability to navigate the future is ultimately on Henry's pocketbook.

 

We will have to disagree on that sk.

 

Of course Henry could keep the team together if he's willing to shell out the money for it and have an insanely high payroll. That would more or less be the consequence of our currently mortgaged future.

 

It's not the way to put together a team.

[sk7326]

We will have to disagree on that sk.

 

Of course Henry could keep the team together if he's willing to shell out the money for it and have an insanely high payroll. That would more or less be the consequence of our currently mortgaged future.

 

It's not the way to put together a team.

 

We haven't traded a single prospect we're gonna miss ... considering the insanely high prices the fans are charged, an insanely high payroll is frankly something that should be expected. The reason the payroll is going to be crazy high is the success the team has had developing its kiddos.

 

I mean, Dombrowski - for all the talk of mortgaging the future, simultaneously made super-aggressive bets on Benintendi and Devers ... but that always gets underreported.

[Bellhorn04]

sk and Kimmi arguing team building philosophy: a battle royale for the ages.

[sk7326]

sk and Kimmi arguing team building philosophy: a battle royale for the ages.

 

I actually don't disagree with the fundamentals ... but we are a big market team with different realities than Oakland and Tampa, and should not pretend otherwise.

[Kimmi]

We haven't traded a single prospect we're gonna miss ... considering the insanely high prices the fans are charged, an insanely high payroll is frankly something that should be expected. The reason the payroll is going to be crazy high is the success the team has had developing its kiddos.

 

I mean, Dombrowski - for all the talk of mortgaging the future, simultaneously made super-aggressive bets on Benintendi and Devers ... but that always gets underreported.

 

It's not about whether the prospects are currently missed. Some of those prospects might be missed when the likes of Betts, etc. walk and we have no one to replace them. The goal is to have a revolving door of cost controlled players to keep the payroll down so that we don't have to have a crazy high payroll. Paying to keep all of our youngsters is a recipe for disaster.

 

Dombrowski did a great job of keeping Beni and Devers.

[Kimmi]

sk and Kimmi arguing team building philosophy: a battle royale for the ages.

 

LOL

 

I am no match for sk.

[Kimmi]

I actually don't disagree with the fundamentals ... but we are a big market team with different realities than Oakland and Tampa, and should not pretend otherwise.

 

As I have posted before, I really don't care to rehash the entire argument again.

 

I just don't agree that because we are a big market team, we should get away from what I believe are the fundamentals of building a long term successful franchise, which begins with the farm system. I don't think I will ever be okay with shelling out large contract after large contract in lieu of having a strong farm and cost-controlled players, simply because we can afford to do so.

 

To that end, let me finish with once again praising Dombrowski for the work that he's done for our present team. He deserves much credit.

[dgalehouse]

Dombrowski has put together a deep and powerful team with a first rate manager. He deserves credit for it. As for the traded prospects , they were not that good anyway. I think he actually maximized their value. There will be more coming along soon enough.

[notin]

Dombrowski has put together a deep and powerful team with a first rate manager. He deserves credit for it. As for the traded prospects , they were not that good anyway. I think he actually maximized their value. There will be more coming along soon enough.

 

It's a bit early to write off anyone he traded. He did at least get good players for them.

 

But I also wouldn't assume the pipeline will keep producing another set of Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts, etc. It's not a given that we will keep having good prospects...

[Kimmi]

It's a bit early to write off anyone he traded. He did at least get good players for them.

 

But I also wouldn't assume the pipeline will keep producing another set of Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts, etc. It's not a given that we will keep having good prospects...

 

Nothing is guaranteed, but the stronger the farm system, the better the chances of producing your future Killer Bs.

[notin]

Nothing is guaranteed, but the stronger the farm system, the better the chances of producing your future Killer Bs.

 

It's especially tough - but not impossible - with the higher draft picks in the first round...

[sk7326]

It's not about whether the prospects are currently missed. Some of those prospects might be missed when the likes of Betts, etc. walk and we have no one to replace them. The goal is to have a revolving door of cost controlled players to keep the payroll down so that we don't have to have a crazy high payroll. Paying to keep all of our youngsters is a recipe for disaster.

 

Dombrowski did a great job of keeping Beni and Devers.

 

I think this is the interesting question. Who benefits from the Red Sox having a "modest" payroll? The punitive measures aren't really a deterrent. I as an out of town fan sure don't. And if I were a more active consumer of the Red Sox, that answer would be even more emphatic. If the Red Sox slashed payroll - it would just be increasing profit margins for the ownership ... which ultimately does not benefit anybody.

 

Oakland has to think of it like college sportsball - that was the entire point of Moneyball. But the Red Sox manifestly do not (and frankly should not) share that context. Keeping the best player the Red Sox have had since early career Nomar should be a baseball decision - not a financial one. Affordability is a non-issue.

 

A strong minor league system is generally a good idea - but the goals of the minor league system aren't the same.

Edited August 3, 2018 by sk7326

[notin]

I think this is the interesting question. Who benefits from the Red Sox having a "modest" payroll? The punitive measures aren't really a deterrent. I as an out of town fan sure don't. And if I were a more active consumer of the Red Sox, that answer would be even more emphatic. If the Red Sox slashed payroll - it would just be increasing profit margins for the ownership ... which ultimately does not benefit anybody.

 

Oakland has to think of it like college sportsball - that was the entire point of Moneyball. But the Red Sox manifestly do not (and frankly should not) share that context. Keeping the best player the Red Sox have had since early career Nomar should be a baseball decision - not a financial one. Affordability is a non-issue.

 

A strong minor league system is generally a good idea - but the goals of the minor league system aren't the same.

 

Sure they are. They are there to produce trade fodder and minimum wage players for the big club. Despite the Sox financial resources, they will need the latter once some of the curretly cheap players start making real money (if they stay).

 

And if any of the Killer B's start leaving, then what? The Sox lack prospects to replace them or trade for someone who can.

 

Of course, that is the future a couple seasons down the road. Right now, there is an exciting season happening in front of us. But only we as fans get to look at it that way; Dombrowski as GM/President of Baseball Ops should not. He should be thinking about 2019 and 2020 to some extent...

[SoxnCycles]

I think this is the interesting question. Who benefits from the Red Sox having a "modest" payroll? The punitive measures aren't really a deterrent. I as an out of town fan sure don't. And if I were a more active consumer of the Red Sox, that answer would be even more emphatic. If the Red Sox slashed payroll - it would just be increasing profit margins for the ownership ... which ultimately does not benefit anybody.

 

Oakland has to think of it like college sportsball - that was the entire point of Moneyball. But the Red Sox manifestly do not (and frankly should not) share that context. Keeping the best player the Red Sox have had since early career Nomar should be a baseball decision - not a financial one. Affordability is a non-issue.

 

A strong minor league system is generally a good idea - but the goals of the minor league system aren't the same.

 

I don't think anyone is advocating for the Sox to to spend like Tampa Bay, but, thanks to the luxury tax penalties, there are limits.

A solid farm system allows the Sox to spend up to the limit, without going over it every year, and be selective with free agent signings.

[sk7326]

Sure they are. They are there to produce trade fodder and minimum wage players for the big club. Despite the Sox financial resources, they will need the latter once some of the curretly cheap players start making real money (if they stay).

 

And if any of the Killer B's start leaving, then what? The Sox lack prospects to replace them or trade for someone who can.

 

Of course, that is the future a couple seasons down the road. Right now, there is an exciting season happening in front of us. But only we as fans get to look at it that way; Dombrowski as GM/President of Baseball Ops should not. He should be thinking about 2019 and 2020 to some extent...

 

They will need some of that ... but really, the Red Sox don't actually need the farm to produce worker bees ... there are lots of ways to find Mitch Morelands. The Red Sox want the farm to produce STARS ... and you can see that in how Dombrowski has handled the farm. He has aggressively managed the stars and used the other guys to figure out other parts. Teams like Tampa and Oakland is more likely to use the "non-star" tier of players as well.

 

Dombrowski does not have a 2020 problem. John Henry does. The choice of signing guys who are already good ENTERING their prime is not a difficult one. It's just a matter if ownership wants to take said plunge.

 

Bradley and Bogaerts are fairly complicated - Betts and Benintendi are not.

[Kimmi]

I think this is the interesting question. Who benefits from the Red Sox having a "modest" payroll? The punitive measures aren't really a deterrent. I as an out of town fan sure don't. And if I were a more active consumer of the Red Sox, that answer would be even more emphatic. If the Red Sox slashed payroll - it would just be increasing profit margins for the ownership ... which ultimately does not benefit anybody.

 

Oakland has to think of it like college sportsball - that was the entire point of Moneyball. But the Red Sox manifestly do not (and frankly should not) share that context. Keeping the best player the Red Sox have had since early career Nomar should be a baseball decision - not a financial one. Affordability is a non-issue.

 

A strong minor league system is generally a good idea - but the goals of the minor league system aren't the same.

 

To me, it's not about who's saving money or who's pocketing it. If Henry were a cheapskate, it might be a different story, but he has always shown his commitment to winning in terms of spending.

 

It's about the underlying philosophy, or whatever you want to call it.

 

I don't like being thought of as the team that 'buys' its way to championships and spends money recklessly just because Henry can afford to do so. It's also bad business to have to eat millions of dollar in contracts when the player inevitably no longer performs to the contract.

[sk7326]

I don't think anyone is advocating for the Sox to to spend like Tampa Bay, but, thanks to the luxury tax penalties, there are limits.

A solid farm system allows the Sox to spend up to the limit, without going over it every year, and be selective with free agent signings.

 

The surcharges could hamper ownership's willingness to pay ... but that is their decision. The draft pick penalty is relatively meaningless.

[Bellhorn04]

The economic landscape is changing a bit too. It looks like the cheap young talent ain't gonna stay cheap quite as long, when you see Mookie making $10.5 million in his 4th year and 2 more arb years to go with substantial raises.

[Kimmi]

I don't think anyone is advocating for the Sox to to spend like Tampa Bay, but, thanks to the luxury tax penalties, there are limits.

A solid farm system allows the Sox to spend up to the limit, without going over it every year, and be selective with free agent signings.

 

I can't believe that Henry is willing to incur those higher penalties year after year after year. I'm surprised he was willing to go over the highest limit this year, but I guess he feels this is the year.

 

Eventually, however, something has to give.