Dave Dombrowski

[Bellhorn04]

Well if we didn’t go 71-91, we might not have Benintendi. If you want a glass that’s half full...

 

Sort of like a s*** sandwich with a strawberry sundae for dessert.

 

Damn glad to have Beni though.

[Kimmi]

Just gonna leave this here

 

this too

 

Nice work Dojji.

[Bellhorn04]

I beg to differ. I don't think 2013 was any more lucky than most World Series years are in terms of getting the health and the performances that you expect.

 

Maybe. But going from 69 wins to 97 back to 71 is kind of unique, I think.

[Kimmi]

What is the track record of each sports publication and website's preseason predictions though? That's what I'd like to see some time.

 

Is that even really a relevant point though?

 

Those predictions are based on what the team looks like on paper. That's the best that the GM can do. We all know that what is on paper doesn't always play out on the field the same way, but you can't really blame the GM for that.

[Kimmi]

Maybe. But going from 69 wins to 97 back to 71 is kind of unique, I think.

 

Not when you factor in Bobby V.

[Bellhorn04]

Is that even really a relevant point though?

 

Those predictions are based on what the team looks like on paper. That's the best that the GM can do. We all know that what is on paper doesn't always play out on the field the same way, but you can't really blame the GM for that.

 

I partially buy this and I partially don't. I think Ben built a lot of X factor into his teams. A lot of guys who were highly variable in performance for one reason or other. Guys who were really hard to predict.

 

Theo kept turning out 95 win seasons. The Yanks as I reluctantly pointed out haven't been under .500 since 1992. For some reason Ben was Mr. Feast or Famine...

[a700hitter]

I beg to differ. I don't think 2013 was any more lucky than most World Series years are in terms of getting the health and the performances that you expect.

 

2014 and 2015 were indeed incredibly unlucky.

2014 and 2015 were just bad. They were bad teams. Their flaws were glaring.

[Jasonbay44]

The 2013 World Series was definitely a bit of luck, but there is always some luck involved in winning a championship. There were so many guys who had the years of their life that season though, it just seemed like a year of destiny with how well everything worked out. Victorino, Salty, Mike Carp (lol), Nava all had the best years of their careers. Stephen Drew, coming off two bad years, had a great year in Boston, then two s***** years after. Gomes, was solid. Koji not only had the best year of his career, but one of the best I have ever seen from a closer, and he wasn't even meant to be the closer. Craig Breslow had a career year (and was horrendous the following year), Buchholz was having Cy Young type season before an injury. That was just a ridiculous team that had a lot of guys all breakout/have fluke years at the same time. It was an awesome team to watch, but its also one I often think "How did this roster dominate so much?".

[Spudboy]

In the words of the immortal Casey Stengel who was asked about "tendering his resignation" to the Yankees after the 1961 season, he replied, "Resigned? Heck no, I was fired." As an employee benefits attorney for 30 years, in response to the notion of Ben not being fired, I'd sarcastically say "yeah right." The diminution of his responsibilities were such that any court would rule that he had been terminated and could invoke his Golden Parachute. The notion that he wasn't fired is ridiculous.

 

He was pushed out.

 

I've seen it happen in business and industry many times.

 

He was not getting it done so he was replaced.

 

It reminds me of an old Bobcat Goldthwait comedy routine.

 

"I lost my job yesterday. Actually I did not really lose it. It's still there. Except someone else is doing it".

[Spudboy]

I can be completely on board with this.

 

But I must add that Theo > Ben > Dave

 

More like Theo > Dan > Ben.

[Slasher9]

As I said before, give me teams that are expected to contend going into the season. This has happened every year in the Henry ownership era.

 

What I don't want is a team that we know has no chance going into the season.

 

Yes. Yes. And YES

[Slasher9]

Theo was given a really good team to begin with, but so was Dave.

 

For me, there is no way Dave ever gets the bump over Theo.

 

Theo is the GOAT GM.

He brought a parade to the downtrodden and desperate Red Sox fans...twice. And then just for gits & shiggles he gave the cubbies fans a parade too.

Dave Dombrowski would be lucky to be Theo’s coffee boy.....

[mvp 78]

Theo was given a really good team to begin with, but so was Dave.

 

For me, there is no way Dave ever gets the bump over Theo.

 

Dave was given a last place team. Saying “no way” does Dave get the bump just shows your bias and unwillingness to listen to another viewpoint.

[Spudboy]

Dave was given a last place team. Saying “no way” does Dave get the bump just shows your bias and unwillingness to listen to another viewpoint.

 

lol

[notin]

Dave was given a last place team. Saying “no way” does Dave get the bump just shows your bias and unwillingness to listen to another viewpoint.

 

Well, a last place team with 15 players with World Series rings...

[Bellhorn04]

Well, a last place team with 15 players with World Series rings...

 

Also a back-to-back last place team with 15 players with World Series rings.

[mvp 78]

Well, a last place team with 15 players with World Series rings...

 

Rings have nothing to do with anything.

[Slasher9]

Rings have nothing to do with anything.

 

Don mattingly is on hold for you....

[mvp 78]

Don mattingly is on hold for you....

 

Replace those 15 Sox with rings with 15 Don Mattinglys and the Sox wouldn't have been in last place.

[notin]

Also a back-to-back last place team with 15 players with World Series rings.

 

Do you honestly think those were bad teams? Or good teams that may have a flaw or two?

 

The 2014 team was basically the exact same thing as the 2013 World Series Champion team. I would agree that being status quo was not a good thing, but did you really expect last place? Or did this team simply underachieve?

[mvp 78]

Do you honestly think those were bad teams? Or good teams that may have a flaw or two?

 

The 2014 team was basically the exact same thing as the 2013 World Series Champion team. I would agree that being status quo was not a good thing, but did you really expect last place? Or did this team simply underachieve?

 

2013 played way above their heads and only made the WS due to Papi becoming the greatest player that ever lived.

 

2014 played under their heads by a little bit.

 

The 2015 squad just flat out sucked though.

[notin]

Rings have nothing to do with anything.

 

Why not? In this case, the team he inherited certainly had the foundation of a World Series champion. They won it as recently as 2013. It's not like he inherited a hopeless team with no talent and no farm system...

[notin]

2013 played way above their heads and only made the WS due to Papi becoming the greatest player that ever lived.

 

2014 played under their heads by a little bit.

 

The 2015 squad just flat out sucked though.

 

 

What were your expectations going into that season?

 

I didn't know what to expect myself, especially since I hated the Sandoval signing. But I don't think last place looked obvious.

 

(Not to mention, simply calling them last place does ignore that the team won 78 games, a very rare high amount for a last place team. They were essentially a .500 ball club, not a 60-102 team.)

[a700hitter]

What were your expectations going into that season?

 

I didn't know what to expect myself, especially since I hated the Sandoval signing. But I don't think last place looked obvious.

 

(Not to mention, simply calling them last place does ignore that the team won 78 games, a very rare high amount for a last place team. They were essentially a .500 ball club, not a 60-102 team.)

With the pitching that we were bringing north, they were at best a 4th place team. The staff was awful.

[dgalehouse]

Scoreboard . Look at the Red Sox won / loss records under Cherington and under Dombrowski . No contest. I guess now we will hear that wins and losses are overrated. They don't matter very much. Other things are more important , etc.

[notin]

With the pitching that we were bringing north, they were at best a 4th place team. The staff was awful.

 

I can see some of the reasons for that criticism. But that staff did also have the 2016 Cy young winner.

 

And even then, I think people look at this kind of stuff in a vacuum. The staffs for the Yankees, Blue Jays and Orioles might have been better, but they didn't look so much better that all looked lost for Boston before Spring Training started. A lot of [people cited the Sox lacked an ace that year, which was the basis for a lot of this criticism. But then so did the eventual World Series winners in 2015, a team that handed the ball to Edinson Volsquez for their biggest games...

 

It looked to me like the Sox had an odd strategy of focusing on ground ball pitchers and keeping the ball in the infield. It didn't work out as some of them failed to keep the ball on the ground, making our weak defense in LF much more noticeable and problematic...

[a700hitter]

Scoreboard . Look at the Red Sox won / loss records under Cherington and under Dombrowski . No contest. I guess now we will hear that wins and losses are overrated. They don't matter very much. Other things are more important , etc.

The Sports marketplace is the best indicator of performance. If you are good , you get a job. Ben got fired as GM and despite the large number of GM openings that off season, no one offered him their GM job. That speaks volumes and it is a pretty good indicator of what people thought of the job that he did as GM. Three years late and still he is a coffee caddy.

[notin]

Scoreboard . Look at the Red Sox won / loss records under Cherington and under Dombrowski . No contest. I guess now we will hear that wins and losses are overrated. They don't matter very much. Other things are more important , etc.

 

I remember a lot of people criticizing Epstein as someone who rode to his success on a team built by Duquette. Of course, if we do this same exercise with those two GMs, DD is a distant second.

 

My only criticism of Dombrowski is he has really mortgaged the future for this team to win now, not only by emptying the farm but also by tying up a lot of his limited resources with David Price. And what some people overlook with the prospects is that while they won't all be All Stars, they will all make minimum wage for 3 years. And if they can play at a reasonable level and make no money, it makes it easier to retain Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, etc.

 

I know a lot of fans will say they don't care about the future, but I can promise you all of them will when it gets here. Which it will.

[a700hitter]

I can see some of the reasons for that criticism. But that staff did also have the 2016 Cy young winner.

 

And even then, I think people look at this kind of stuff in a vacuum. The staffs for the Yankees, Blue Jays and Orioles might have been better, but they didn't look so much better that all looked lost for Boston before Spring Training started. A lot of [people cited the Sox lacked an ace that year, which was the basis for a lot of this criticism. But then so did the eventual World Series winners in 2015, a team that handed the ball to Edinson Volsquez for their biggest games...

 

It looked to me like the Sox had an odd strategy of focusing on ground ball pitchers and keeping the ball in the infield. It didn't work out as some of them failed to keep the ball on the ground, making our weak defense in LF much more noticeable and problematic...

At the time Porcello was the 4.25 Career ERA pitcher with 1,300 innings under his belt. He was no ace and still is not an ace. And the rest of the staff was Turkey turd. If Porcello had performed, we would have been a 4 th place team. He didn’t perform so we finished last. That team had no chance of contending.

[notin]

The Sports marketplace is the best indicator of performance. If you are good , you get a job. Ben got fired as GM and despite the large number of GM openings that off season, no one offered him their GM job. That speaks volumes and it is a pretty good indicator of what people thought of the job that he did as GM. Three years late and still he is a coffee caddy.

 

And 3 years later, this is still revisionist history...