David Price velocity thread

[jacksonianmarch]

What are the betting odds on Thoracic Outlet Syndrome Surgery?

 

Very very high

[notin]

It is the job of a FO to pump up the value of the prospects who they want to move.

 

No it isn't. It really doesn't work that way.

 

Other teams employ scouts and talent evaluators. While every team may value certain skills and tools differently, they make decisions based on their own internal evaluations, not on Dombrowski's sales pitch. (Agents, on the other hand, pump up player's value all the time.) All Dombrowski can do is determine who is available in the right deal.

 

If Dombrowski was able to pump up the value of the Sox prospects, why does he keep dealing away the good ones?

[vjcsmoke]

Is David Price washed up?

 

I was hoping he would eventually rebound like John Lackey did. But he owns a 5.11 ERA through 7 starts and now got the hook for a numb hand? What is going on here?

 

Imagine if we had just kept Lester and paid him the money instead of making him an insulting contract offer and watch him leave town.

 

If we had Lester, we would never have signed Price to that ridiculous contract.

Edited May 8, 2018 by vjcsmoke

[Spudboy]

Is David Price washed up?

 

I was hoping he would eventually rebound like John Lackey did. But he owns a 5.11 ERA through 7 starts and now got the hook for a numb hand? What is going on here?

 

Imagine if we had just kept Lester and paid him the money instead of making him an insulting contract offer and watch him leave town.

 

If we had Lester, we would never have signed Price to that ridiculous contract.

 

Stop making sense.

 

You are offending the Bennie Babies.

[a700hitter]

No it isn't. It really doesn't work that way.

 

Other teams employ scouts and talent evaluators. While every team may value certain skills and tools differently, they make decisions based on their own internal evaluations, not on Dombrowski's sales pitch. (Agents, on the other hand, pump up player's value all the time.) All Dombrowski can do is determine who is available in the right deal.

 

If Dombrowski was able to pump up the value of the Sox prospects, why does he keep dealing away the good ones?

He has had a very good record in his career trading away prospects who have underachieved. Edited May 9, 2018 by a700hitter

[Slasher9]

This will go down as the worst contract in the history of baseball....

[StephenCurry30]

^^ is it even worse than pablos yet? or crawfords? LOL

[Slasher9]

It’s getting in that rarified air already with many years left on it....

[MADSTORK]

Call David Price like it is “Bust”!

 

One should hope After 3 seasons in Boston he wants out and will opt out.

 

Thanks Dave

[a700hitter]

Call David Price like it is “Bust”!

 

One should hope After 3 seasons in Boston he wants out and will opt out.

 

Thanks Dave

No one will give him half of his contract, so opting out is a pipe dream.

[Natick to NC]

David Price is never to be counted on the remainder of his tenure here ...I don't think his team trusts he's ever fully healthy or fully vested in the Redsox winning a championship ...Shut the guy down give him his surgery and try Velesquez who in my opinion is a better pitcher to begin with .I would really like to take this time to shake this roster up ...we have given away a 9 game lead in a matter of weeks so they are a shadow of the team that started out like wildfire ....JBJ ,Vaz ,Leon, are no longer viable options ....start playing Swihart full time start playing JD more in LF and Benny in CF ...look for a trade with the Marlins of JT Realmutto and go get the player . Edited May 9, 2018 by Natick to NC

[notin]

He has had a very good record in his career trading away prospects who have underachieved.

 

Most GMs do. Most prospects underachieve.

[SoxnCycles]

David Price is never to be counted on the remainder of his tenure here ...I don't think his team trusts he's ever fully healthy or fully vested in the Redsox winning a championship ...Shut the guy down give him his surgery and try Velesquez who in my opinion is a better pitcher to begin with .I would really like to take this time to shake this roster up ...we have given away a 9 game lead in a matter of weeks so they are a shadow of the team that started out like wildfire ....JBJ ,Vaz ,Leon, are no longer viable options ....start playing Swihart full time start playing JD more in LF and Benny in CF ...look for a trade with the Marlins of JT Realmutto and go get the player .

 

Hit the panic button!

[Bellhorn04]

Most GMs do. Most prospects underachieve.

 

Particularly the ones who get traded.

[jacksonianmarch]

DD has a history of going for premium talent. He’s not the kind of guy to make a blockbuster for a #2 starter or a #5 hitter. If he’s going to deal, he deals for the best players at the position. He did it when he won a title with the Marlins. He did it when he got the Tigers back to prominence. He did it with the sox as well. Dave is the guy you get when you’re ready to go for it. He’s made some bad moves like paying extra for Miguel Cabrera to get Dontrelle Willis. Like paying David Price the most money ever for a pitcher. But when he goes for it, he goes for the top of the class. His methods require a good farm and by the time his teams have run their course of success, he’s left them desolate in need of a big rebuild. You just hope you win a title in that time

[notin]

DD has a history of going for premium talent. He’s not the kind of guy to make a blockbuster for a #2 starter or a #5 hitter. If he’s going to deal, he deals for the best players at the position. He did it when he won a title with the Marlins. He did it when he got the Tigers back to prominence. He did it with the sox as well. Dave is the guy you get when you’re ready to go for it. He’s made some bad moves like paying extra for Miguel Cabrera to get Dontrelle Willis. Like paying David Price the most money ever for a pitcher. But when he goes for it, he goes for the top of the class. His methods require a good farm and by the time his teams have run their course of success, he’s left them desolate in need of a big rebuild. You just hope you win a title in that time

 

While Dontrelle Willis did not pan out, the price he gave up for Cabrera alone (Maybin and Miller) was easily worth it for the Tigers, especially since Miller took a long time to pan out.

 

And I'm not so sure Dontrelle Willis, who had 3 yrs $29mill left on his deal, really upped the ante all that much.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Price contract might be just the start. If Kopech develops into a dominant ML starter and Moncada develops into a 30-30 guy, the Sale trade will look terrible in a few years. In essence, Dombrowski traded away future value in an attempt to win now. But if the Red Sox don't win now, even the Sale trade might look like utter buffoonery in the near future. Dombrowksi took a big gamble--he decimated the farm system in order to win now. It hasn't worked out for him so far.

[notin]

The Price contract might be just the start. If Kopech develops into a dominant ML starter and Moncada develops into a 30-30 guy, the Sale trade will look terrible in a few years. In essence, Dombrowski traded away future value in an attempt to win now. But if the Red Sox don't win now, even the Sale trade might look like utter buffoonery in the near future. Dombrowksi took a big gamble--he decimated the farm system in order to win now. It hasn't worked out for him so far.

 

It also didn't work in Detroit, but I think he may have dealt better prospects from the Boston system...

[notin]

Particularly the ones who get traded.

 

I would be surprised if the failure rate was higher among traded prospects vs. those who were retained...

[jacksonianmarch]

It also didn't work in Detroit, but I think he may have dealt better prospects from the Boston system...

 

How did it not work in Detroit? They went from 2nd worst record ever in 2003 to the world series in 2006 and 2012 with ALCS bouts in 2013 and 2014. He achieved sustained success in Detroit before the bottom fell out and he was fired. The sox didn't have the same narrative. The Tigers built and built and they arrived faster than anticipated. Henry gave DD an ultimatum. Make us relevant now. He did.

[FredLynn]

The Price contract might be just the start. If Kopech develops into a dominant ML starter and Moncada develops into a 30-30 guy, the Sale trade will look terrible in a few years. In essence, Dombrowski traded away future value in an attempt to win now. But if the Red Sox don't win now, even the Sale trade might look like utter buffoonery in the near future. Dombrowksi took a big gamble--he decimated the farm system in order to win now. It hasn't worked out for him so far.

 

Maybe, but so far Moncada in a SSS has an OPS+ of a hardly stellar 111 for his short career and Kopech hasn't sniffed the ML yet as far as I can tell-and we have Sale, a dominant SP. I still make that trade every day of the week.

[Slasher9]

Maybe, but so far Moncada in a SSS has an OPS+ of a hardly stellar 111 for his short career and Kopech hasn't sniffed the ML yet as far as I can tell-and we have Sale, a dominant SP. I still make that trade every day of the week.

 

me too. but if DD didn't overpay for Kimbrell we may still have Moncada or Kopech.

[FredLynn]

me too. but if DD didn't overpay for Kimbrell we may still have Moncada or Kopech.

 

So far the Kimbrel trade looks good to me too. Margot, the major prospect we gave up for probably the best closer in the game, had a non stellar 2017 with a .263/.721/91 slash line. He is off to a slow start this year too with Bradley like stats. Javier Guerra hasn't sniffed the MLs yet. So to me it doesn't currently look like an overpay.

[jacksonianmarch]

You know what does look like an overpay? Warren, McKinney and Torres for 3 months of Chapman. Theo got his ring, but Cash ate his lunch

[mvp 78]

You know what does look like an overpay? Warren, McKinney and Torres for 3 months of Chapman. Theo got his ring, but Cash ate his lunch

 

That has nothing to do with the rest of the thread.

[Slasher9]

You know what does look like an overpay? Warren, McKinney and Torres for 3 months of Chapman. Theo got his ring, but Cash ate his lunch

 

Yankees are the best! troll on.....

[Slasher9]

So far the Kimbrel trade looks good to me too. Margot, the major prospect we gave up for probably the best closer in the game, had a non stellar 2017 with a .263/.721/91 slash line. He is off to a slow start this year too with Bradley like stats. Javier Guerra hasn't sniffed the MLs yet. So to me it doesn't currently look like an overpay.

 

I hear you. I'm just saying that those prospects could have been used in the Sale trade (which may have allowed us to retain moncada).

Kimbrell was taking on salary + big time prospects. it should be one or the other. not both.

[Bellhorn04]

I would be surprised if the failure rate was higher among traded prospects vs. those who were retained...

 

Well, if you look at Red Sox history I think it works. The basic principle is that there are some guys you just don't trade, like Betts and Bogaerts of recent vintage.

[Bellhorn04]

How did it not work in Detroit? They went from 2nd worst record ever in 2003 to the world series in 2006 and 2012 with ALCS bouts in 2013 and 2014. He achieved sustained success in Detroit before the bottom fell out and he was fired. The sox didn't have the same narrative. The Tigers built and built and they arrived faster than anticipated. Henry gave DD an ultimatum. Make us relevant now. He did.

 

Agreed.

[Bellhorn04]

The Price contract might be just the start. If Kopech develops into a dominant ML starter and Moncada develops into a 30-30 guy, the Sale trade will look terrible in a few years. In essence, Dombrowski traded away future value in an attempt to win now. But if the Red Sox don't win now, even the Sale trade might look like utter buffoonery in the near future. Dombrowksi took a big gamble--he decimated the farm system in order to win now. It hasn't worked out for him so far.

 

Disagree, just because Sale didn't lead the team to a championship his first season doesn't mean it hasn't worked.

 

What would the team look like without Sale last year or this?