Betts brings to memory one heck of a player.

[Bellhorn04]

The BABIP is lower because home runs are not part of BABIP. If even half his home runs only hit the top of the wall and stayed in play, his BABIP would look more like what you would expect. ..

 

Are you suggesting BABIP is flawed because it excludes home runs?

[notin]

Are you suggesting BABIP is flawed because it excludes home runs?

 

 

Yes. That was clearly what I was saying.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes. That was clearly what I was saying.

 

I know it probably sounded like a snarky question, but in this case it wasn't meant to be.

[jacksonianmarch]

BABIP isn’t flawed in that argument. A ball hit 450 feet isn’t catchable so why leave it up to chance. The basics of BABIP are that a ball hit into the field of play drops in at a 30% clip. That’s a general rule to evaluate whether someone was lucky. There are far more metrics diving deeper than just BABIP including exit velocity, line drive percentages, etc. I think BABIP is a good sabremetric stat for those who don’t want to delve deeper. Most people don’t.

 

You know, ORS and UN were some of the first on this site to embrace the Sabre metric data and I was a cynic but I definitely see its utility now.

[Bellhorn04]

BABIP isn’t flawed in that argument. A ball hit 450 feet isn’t catchable so why leave it up to chance. The basics of BABIP are that a ball hit into the field of play drops in at a 30% clip. That’s a general rule to evaluate whether someone was lucky. There are far more metrics diving deeper than just BABIP including exit velocity, line drive percentages, etc. I think BABIP is a good sabremetric stat for those who don’t want to delve deeper. Most people don’t.

 

You know, ORS and UN were some of the first on this site to embrace the Sabre metric data and I was a cynic but I definitely see its utility now.

 

I'm in the middle when it comes to the new stats. I think there's always a tendency for these things to be taken too far.

 

For example that 450 foot home run. You don't really need to give me the exit velocity. I already had a pretty good hunch the ball was well hit.

[notin]

I know it probably sounded like a snarky question, but in this case it wasn't meant to be.

 

LOL I assumed it was.

 

OK, BABIP isn't flawed. But when a player only has 21 hits and 11 of them are home runs, simply put he is going to have a low BABIP based on the fewer hits.

 

To me, the only real problem with BABIP is it needs some sort of context to it. Normally, people like to compare it to a league average value, which is usually around .300. But not all hitters are equal, and not all will get a .300 BABIP with normal luck distribution. It really needs to be compared to an xBABIP calculation that facotrs in line drive rate, groundball rate and flyball rate. The way Betts is swinging, he is generating a lot of flyballs, so he should have a low BABIP, since fewer flyballs that stay in the park land for hits than any other type of contact (except infield flies, which xBABIP calculations can consider to be automatic outs)...

[mvp 78]

@SoxNotes

 

Mookie Betts leads MLB in HR (13), AVG (.361), runs (38) & OPS (1.244). He’s batting .300+ with a 1.000+ OPS vs. RHP (.353/1.181), vs. LHP (.378/1.388), at home (.439/1.471), on the road (.321/1.126), with RISP (.389/1.369), with 2 outs (.480/1.519) & with 2 strikes (.328/1.111).

[Station 13]

@SoxNotes

 

Mookie Betts leads MLB in HR (13), AVG (.361), runs (38) & OPS (1.244). He’s batting .300+ with a 1.000+ OPS vs. RHP (.353/1.181), vs. LHP (.378/1.388), at home (.439/1.471), on the road (.321/1.126), with RISP (.389/1.369), with 2 outs (.480/1.519) & with 2 strikes (.328/1.111).

 

Why are we .500 in the last 2 weeks?!

[mvp 78]

Why are we .500 in the last 2 weeks?!

 

Because of Fortnite.

[User Name]

Because of Fortnite.

 

Now that's funny.

[notin]

Right now, Betts reminds me a lot of Garciaparra at the plate, especially with the way he has explosive games that carry this team.

 

Hopefully he won't have a tragically short of a career as Nomar, who was on a clear fast track to Cooperstown before injuries set it...

[a700hitter]

Right now, Betts reminds me a lot of Garciaparra at the plate, especially with the way he has explosive games that carry this team.

 

Hopefully he won't have a tragically short of a career as Nomar, who was on a clear fast track to Cooperstown before injuries set it...

The wrist and subsequent other injuries quickly took their toll on Nomar, but he generated more fan excitement than anyone since his early days with the team.

[notin]

The wrist and subsequent other injuries quickly took their toll on Nomar, but he generated more fan excitement than anyone since his early days with the team.

 

And his size vs the power he generated is very comparable to Betts...

[bhatley6]

In my younger days...Nomar was probably one of the biggest reasons that I became a Sox fan...that and while that living in NC like I do without a local team, I hated the MFY for winning everything, so I chose their rival.

[Spudboy]

In my younger days...Nomar was probably one of the biggest reasons that I became a Sox fan...that and while that living in NC like I do without a local team, I hated the MFY for winning everything, so I chose their rival.

 

Living next to Pawtucket I saw Nomar play there many times. He was a string bean when he was drafted. He looked like he would snap in half at some point.

 

Boy could that kid play, though.

 

He does not get a lot of love on this board due to his last year here when he was seen as a Malcontent and a disruption in the clubhouse.

[mvp 78]

Living next to Pawtucket I saw Nomar play there many times. He was a string bean when he was drafted. He looked like he would snap in half at some point.

 

Boy could that kid play, though.

 

He does not get a lot of love on this board due to his last year here when he was seen as a Malcontent and a disruption in the clubhouse.

 

And he's a generally unfriendly person in real life.

[Spudboy]

And he's a generally unfriendly person in real life.

 

I have met him and I have spoken to him ( briefly ) several times. Just seemed a little quiet. But he was always friendly and he did not give me s*** the time I almost ran him over in my Camry wagon.

[mvp 78]

I have met him and I have spoken to him ( briefly ) several times. Just seemed a little quiet. But he was always friendly and he did not give me s*** the time I almost ran him over in my Camry wagon.

 

You should have finished the job!

[illinoisredsox]

And he's a generally unfriendly person in real life.

 

I have met him and I have spoken to him ( briefly ) several times. Just seemed a little quiet. But he was always friendly and he did not give me s*** the time I almost ran him over in my Camry wagon.

 

I was going to ask, is Nomar an introvert ? He always struck me as one.

 

Extroverts often see introverts as unfriendly.

[Spudboy]

I was going to ask, is Nomar an introvert ? He always struck me as one.

 

Extroverts often see introverts as unfriendly.

 

I don't know. He was just understated in the short time I spoke with him. But he was never unfriendly or standoffish.

[notin]

Living next to Pawtucket I saw Nomar play there many times. He was a string bean when he was drafted. He looked like he would snap in half at some point.

 

Boy could that kid play, though.

 

He does not get a lot of love on this board due to his last year here when he was seen as a Malcontent and a disruption in the clubhouse.

 

This always struck me as another of those situations where fans thought they knew the whole story...

[mvp 78]

This always struck me as another of those situations where fans thought they knew the whole story...

 

Boston media had no issue pushing that story over and over.

[notin]

Boston media had no issue pushing that story over and over.

 

The Boston media, especially the Herald and most definitely especially Steve Buckley, had a very bad habit of proliferating that type of negativity about Sox players and over blowing any story whenever they had the chance. Remember when Buckley ripped Clemens for throwing a package of hot dog rolls at a reporter, like it was comparable to Joey/Albert Belle throwing baseballs at photographers? Hot dog rolls?

 

That crew the Herald had, with Buckley and Tony Massarotti and Gerry Callahan, had to be the worst crew I've ever come across when it came to covering sports.

[S5Dewey]

Boston media had no issue pushing that story over and over.

 

I'm uncertain as to whether to blame the media or the fans for it. The whole story took on a life of its own after the day when Jeter made the leaping dive into the stands for a foul ball and the camera showed what appeared to be a sulking Nomar in the Sox dugout. And to make the situation even worse it was on national TV.

 

The fans are complicit in it too as they (we?) have an unquenchable thirst for any information about the Sox players, almost including the color and the consistency of that morning's bowel movement so the fans can draw their own conclusions as to what it means.

[Slasher9]

his body broke down so quickly because he was a longtime PeD user.

[notin]

his body broke down so quickly because he was a longtime PeD user.

 

Or maybe it was when he jumped into Boston harbor to save those two women.

 

Beyond media and fan speculation, was Nomar ever definitively linked to PED usage? He never failed a test and was not named by any sources, wasn't in the Mitchell Report, and was not invovled with BALCO or Biogenesis.

Edited May 17, 2018 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

Or maybe it was when he jumped into Boston harbor to save those two women.

 

It's all water under the bridge now.

[mvp 78]

Or maybe it was when he jumped into Boston harbor to save those two women.

 

He was trying to escape a piss test. Just happened to be at the right place at the right time.

[S5Dewey]

his body broke down so quickly because he was a longtime PeD user.

 

Two things come to mind when I hear that.

 

I can remember the pic of a shirtless Nomar on the cover of SI - and he was friggin' RIPPED - and an entire article about his workout regimen.

 

The other thing I remember is that after that appeared there was some speculation about PED usage and Curt Schilling said that he was certain that Nomar didn't get that way by using PED's. Not that I believe him now, but that's what he said.

[mvp 78]

I'm uncertain as to whether to blame the media or the fans for it. The whole story took on a life of its own after the day when Jeter made the leaping dive into the stands for a foul ball and the camera showed what appeared to be a sulking Nomar in the Sox dugout. And to make the situation even worse it was on national TV.

 

The fans are complicit in it too as they (we?) have an unquenchable thirst for any information about the Sox players, almost including the color and the consistency of that morning's bowel movement so the fans can draw their own conclusions as to what it means.

 

It started well before then. They were all over him in Spring Training (lots to do with him wanting to hold out for a bigger contract). I remember how pissed off WEEI was at him for having the gall of sitting on a picnic table and fielding questions from reporters about him possibly being traded that offseason (for Maglio Ordonez). He had a Howard Dean moment where he laughed with a weird tone and it was played over and over again on WEEI for the following months. Nomar got injured that spring and the media posited that it was from him playing soccer in the offseason with Mia.