The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[cp176]

First, thank you for telling me what I'm allowed to do. But strangely, you seem to feel you're not participating in this pissing contest, right? So it must be all me. Hahahaha

 

My God - it just doesn't end my friend. Although it is not a particularly positive or nice way to look at things, assuming that Hanley Ramirez was a lovable likable teammate based on very little evidence isn't really much different from looking at things from a little different perspective. I'm with you here - Is it possible that he is an idiot who was constantly seeking attention any way that he could get it? It is possible. If people want to drift around on their self-proclaimed high road and assume that getting rid of him had nothing to do with who he is and that he just wanted to go home and spend more time with his family or even that the only reason was the contract - that is ok. The Red Sox became a better baseball team after he left in many ways. I don't think that was all coincidence. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but I don't think his "alleged" prior track record needs to just be forgotten. They have no proof that they are right - we have no proof that we are right. That is just the way it goes. We just aren't that nice I guess.

[Slasher9]

Pedroia has been well received in the dugout as a veteran player offering advice and coaching tips to the other players.

 

People really need to get over the Pedroia is a lousy leader/role model thing.

 

i think its funny to blame pedroia since people want to blame hanley.....

[cp176]

I disagree. They were seemingly having too much "fun" last year and not enough seriousness and focus. They forgot how many outs there were, what base to throw to, and so many blunders I can't even remember.

 

I'm glad they got rid of the OF dance.

 

I know winning makes everyone look better, but almost the entire team was on the downswing last year.

 

I see an immense uptick in fire, enthusiasm and energy. Desire is hard to see or evaluate, but it's one of those things you know when you see it.

 

I guess we see things differently on this issue, but I see a night and day comparison, and I think Cora was a big influence on the change. I can see, smell and taste the increased focus.

 

Some fans love the little dances as well other little displays of emotion. Most coaches understand this and realize that from time to time emotional outbreaks are necessary to break tension. When they happen repetetively they get tiring and can become a distraction, just another way for people to bring attention to themselves. Sometimes you just continue doing things or stop doing things for the good of the team. Often times a good coach will let harmless silly little things go if they are not detrimental to team building. I got very tired of the little outfield dance. Ok for a while but I'm alright with trying something else.

[cp176]

i think its funny to blame pedroia since people want to blame hanley.....

 

Kind of looks to me as though this current version of our team might be better off without either of these guys being on the field. lol We don't need either one of them. I don't mind Pedroia being in the dugout playing a supportive role at all though. He has a lot to offer about how to play the actual game the right way. Hanley who? I'm sorry Slasher - I couldn't help myself.

[Bellhorn04]

My God - it just doesn't end my friend. Although it is not a particularly positive or nice way to look at things, assuming that Hanley Ramirez was a lovable likable teammate based on very little evidence isn't really much different from looking at things from a little different perspective. I'm with you here - Is it possible that he is an idiot who was constantly seeking attention any way that he could get it? It is possible.

 

I just don't get the stuff about Hanley being a 'constant attention-seeker'. I just didn't see it. Lots of smiling and some celebrations after getting a big hit or something, sure. But that's all I really saw. And I don't remember any quotes from him that made him look like a selfish player.

 

I'm not trying to attack you and Dewey on this, I'm just genuinely puzzled about what you guys observed.

[cp176]

I just don't get the stuff about Hanley being a 'constant attention-seeker'. I just didn't see it. Lots of smiling and some celebrations after getting a big hit or something, sure. But that's all I really saw. And I don't remember any quotes from him that made him look like a selfish player.

 

I'm not trying to attack you and Dewey on this, I'm just genuinely puzzled about what you guys observed.

 

It is ok that we disagree. My personal choice is to not give my personal reasons for any of my beliefs on a public forum board. If they don't happen to line up with the current trend or the board's overall prevailing views I run the risk of being labelled something that I am not. It is just the way it goes these days. I do not believe that Hanley Ramirez was just the fun-loving goof ball friendly kind of guy that some want to portray him as. I tried to like him and certainly supported him but I am happy that he is gone and I do hope that he is enjoying his life away from baseball. I think that you are a good person Bellhorn but some posters here play a game of trying to bait people in to saying things that can easily be used against them. I can't be baited. It is probably safe to say that I might be a little too conservative (can I say that here) in my take on things in general to be particularly popular on this type of forum.

[Slasher9]

Kind of looks to me as though this current version of our team might be better off without either of these guys being on the field. lol We don't need either one of them. I don't mind Pedroia being in the dugout playing a supportive role at all though. He has a lot to offer about how to play the actual game the right way. Hanley who? I'm sorry Slasher - I couldn't help myself.

 

we had a pretty good record with him on the team. the pending 2019 contract cost him his job. not anything he did in the dugout. he played every position the Red Sox ever asked him to play without complaining once. he put in extra work on defense trying to learn each new position we asked him to play. his offense slumped + the contract situation were his death knell. DD had to do it. Hanley understood it that is why you wont find a quote from him anywhere taking a shot at the Red Sox even after they slit his throat. not even a "it's not me, it's them". the fact that he choose not to spend 4 months playing for the devil rays for $0 doesnt make him a bad person or someone that hates baseball. the fact that he never once bad mouthed the Red Sox front office, players, coaches, fans kind of tells me that he is a good person. i dont think you need to be liberal or conservative to see that.....but maybe you do???

[moonslav59]

Some fans love the little dances as well other little displays of emotion. Most coaches understand this and realize that from time to time emotional outbreaks are necessary to break tension. When they happen repetetively they get tiring and can become a distraction, just another way for people to bring attention to themselves. Sometimes you just continue doing things or stop doing things for the good of the team. Often times a good coach will let harmless silly little things go if they are not detrimental to team building. I got very tired of the little outfield dance. Ok for a while but I'm alright with trying something else.

 

A saw it as false enthusiasm, but that's just me.

[cp176]

we had a pretty good record with him on the team. the pending 2019 contract cost him his job. not anything he did in the dugout. he played every position the Red Sox ever asked him to play without complaining once. he put in extra work on defense trying to learn each new position we asked him to play. his offense slumped + the contract situation were his death knell. DD had to do it. Hanley understood it that is why you wont find a quote from him anywhere taking a shot at the Red Sox even after they slit his throat. not even a "it's not me, it's them". the fact that he choose not to spend 4 months playing for the devil rays for $0 doesnt make him a bad person or someone that hates baseball. the fact that he never once bad mouthed the Red Sox front office, players, coaches, fans kind of tells me that he is a good person. i dont think you need to be liberal or conservative to see that.....but maybe you do???

 

You make a very compelling case. I'm sure that I am one of those numb ones who still thinks that there were other things that were going on. I'm glad though you liked him and hold him in high regard for all that he did for the Red Sox. By disagreeing with you, it would make me seem intollerant and probably even biased. I'm not either one of those things. As for him being a good person, that might depend on how well you know him. I don't know him.

[S5Dewey]

I just don't get the stuff about Hanley being a 'constant attention-seeker'. I just didn't see it. Lots of smiling and some celebrations after getting a big hit or something, sure. But that's all I really saw. And I don't remember any quotes from him that made him look like a selfish player.

 

I'm not trying to attack you and Dewey on this, I'm just genuinely puzzled about what you guys observed.

 

I saw an interview with some '04 Sox player (I forget who at the moment) who said that Kevin Millar picked up the nickname of "Red Light" because he seemed to have an innate ability to know when a tv camera was headed his way. Hanley seemed (to me) to be the same way. Every time something good happened and they showed the Sox dugout, there was Hanley, hogging the view with a full frontal grin. It got tiresome.

[notin]

i think its funny to blame pedroia since people want to blame hanley.....

 

I think a lot of fans try to put way too much on all of this clubhouse stuff. People are people. Some are irritated by everything; some by nothing. But as fans we all try to make it very “cut and dry” and put every player into one of two camps. Everyone is either a leader or a cancer. But if you look around, it’s easy to see that the overwhelming majority of people fall into neither category...

[notin]

My God - it just doesn't end my friend. Although it is not a particularly positive or nice way to look at things, assuming that Hanley Ramirez was a lovable likable teammate based on very little evidence isn't really much different from looking at things from a little different perspective. I'm with you here - Is it possible that he is an idiot who was constantly seeking attention any way that he could get it? It is possible. If people want to drift around on their self-proclaimed high road and assume that getting rid of him had nothing to do with who he is and that he just wanted to go home and spend more time with his family or even that the only reason was the contract - that is ok. The Red Sox became a better baseball team after he left in many ways. I don't think that was all coincidence. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but I don't think his "alleged" prior track record needs to just be forgotten. They have no proof that they are right - we have no proof that we are right. That is just the way it goes. We just aren't that nice I guess.

 

Don’t fall into that trap.

 

There is a big difference between theorizing Hanley was a problem and taking any statement to the contrary as a personal effront...

[notin]

First, thank you for telling me what I'm allowed to do. But strangely, you seem to feel you're not participating in this pissing contest, right? So it must be all me. Hahahaha

 

Knock it off.

 

I didn’t tell you what you were allowed to do. I tried to explain why merely labeling something as an “opinion” doesn’t mean it automatically becomes free from criticism or counter-theories. You know, like how someone posts a stat using WAR and out of reflex you immediately post how WAR isn’t perfect and is therefore useless and should never be mentioned gain in your presence, unless it is followed by the words “is not perfect and is therefore useless.”

[S5Dewey]

Knock it off.

 

I didn’t tell you what you were allowed to do. I tried to explain why merely labeling something as an “opinion” doesn’t mean it automatically becomes free from criticism or counter-theories. You know, like how someone posts a stat using WAR and out of reflex you immediately post how WAR isn’t perfect and is therefore useless and should never be mentioned gain in your presence, unless it is followed by the words “is not perfect and is therefore useless.”

 

You really need to go back and read what I've posted about WAR in the past couple of months.

[cp176]

Don’t fall into that trap.

 

There is a big difference between theorizing Hanley was a problem and taking any statement to the contrary as a personal effront...

 

That is very true and yes I did fall into a bit of a trap there. I think that it is just a frustrating time in general probably for all of us and I do think that it is quite easy to take words personally. I probably read too much between the lines so to speak and unfortunately that does not bring out the best in me.

But on the brighter side I am really looking forward to tonight. I really hope that we get to see a strong Chris Sale.

[Emp9]

I just don't get the stuff about Hanley being a 'constant attention-seeker'. I just didn't see it. Lots of smiling and some celebrations after getting a big hit or something, sure. But that's all I really saw. And I don't remember any quotes from him that made him look like a selfish player.

 

I'm not trying to attack you and Dewey on this, I'm just genuinely puzzled about what you guys observed.

 

IDK. Hanley kinda had that Billy Madison, getting out and leaning on his trans am, jean jacket, blasting The Stroke in front of the whole school while everyone’s just trying to get to class kinda vibe to him. Bad guy? No. He just didn’t really fit this team.

[SoxnCycles]

IDK. Hanley kinda had that Billy Madison, getting out and leaning on his trans am, jean jacket, blasting The Stroke in front of the whole school while everyone’s just trying to get to class kinda vibe to him. Bad guy? No. He just didn’t really fit this team.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing!

[Emp9]

You say that like it's a bad thing!

 

Lol;)

[Hitch]

Every decision this guy makes pays off. There's the old saying 'I'd rather a lucky manager than a good one' - luckily we have both.

[notin]

Every decision this guy makes pays off. There's the old saying 'I'd rather a lucky manager than a good one' - luckily we have both.

 

Like his decision to start lefty Rafael Devers vs LHP Kershaw but then pinch hit for him vs lesser LHP Alex Wood. That couldn't have played out any better...

[Hitch]

Like his decision to start lefty Rafael Devers vs LHP Kershaw but then pinch hit for him vs lesser LHP Alex Wood. That couldn't have played out any better...

 

Yup I was actually questioning as it happened as Devers was looking good at the plate and then BOOM, game over.

[notin]

Yup I was actually questioning as it happened as Devers was looking good at the plate and then BOOM, game over.

 

I didn't see or hear anything about it, but was last night the first time two players homered in their first World Series at-bat in the same game, with both Kemp and Nunez doing it?

[Slasher9]

I didn't see or hear anything about it, but was last night the first time two players homered in their first World Series at-bat in the same game, with both Kemp and Nunez doing it?

 

had to be a record. freakin' baseball.....

[Hitch]

I didn't see or hear anything about it, but was last night the first time two players homered in their first World Series at-bat in the same game, with both Kemp and Nunez doing it?

 

I'm not sure, but that sounds like a great shout. Pretty amazing stat.

[Bellhorn04]

I didn't see or hear anything about it, but was last night the first time two players homered in their first World Series at-bat in the same game, with both Kemp and Nunez doing it?

 

I'm going to guess it's been done before. Not that it isn't cool trivia, but there have been a lot of World Series first games featuring players who have never been in one before.

[Kimmi]

we had a pretty good record with him on the team. the pending 2019 contract cost him his job. not anything he did in the dugout. he played every position the Red Sox ever asked him to play without complaining once. he put in extra work on defense trying to learn each new position we asked him to play. his offense slumped + the contract situation were his death knell. DD had to do it. Hanley understood it that is why you wont find a quote from him anywhere taking a shot at the Red Sox even after they slit his throat. not even a "it's not me, it's them". the fact that he choose not to spend 4 months playing for the devil rays for $0 doesnt make him a bad person or someone that hates baseball. the fact that he never once bad mouthed the Red Sox front office, players, coaches, fans kind of tells me that he is a good person. i dont think you need to be liberal or conservative to see that.....but maybe you do???

 

Not only did Hanley not bad mouth the team, but he also took the time to congratulate them.

 

There is no evidence whatsoever pointing to him being a bad seed in any way. None.

[Kimmi]

IDK. Hanley kinda had that Billy Madison, getting out and leaning on his trans am, jean jacket, blasting The Stroke in front of the whole school while everyone’s just trying to get to class kinda vibe to him. Bad guy? No. He just didn’t really fit this team.

 

Don't really get that either.

[Kimmi]

Yup I was actually questioning as it happened as Devers was looking good at the plate and then BOOM, game over.

 

Awesome moment for Nunez.

 

Very happy for him.

[cp176]

It would be nice I think to let the Hanlley thing just go. We don't really have any real evidence that tells us much about him. It is all based upon personal perspectives and things that we think we heard or maybe observed. Hanley had a lot of baggage that he possibly dragged around with him. When he was here I made an honest attempt to like and support him but I think that it is ok if I say I am glad that he is gone.

[notin]

I'm going to guess it's been done before. Not that it isn't cool trivia, but there have been a lot of World Series first games featuring players who have never been in one before.

 

But there have also been something like 600 World Series games and only 40ish players who have homered in their first World Series at bat. It’s not as common as you think...