The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[moonslav59]

Ok Max - First of all I am a Cora fan. But (God help me for saying this) what did he actually do that made it possible for us to win that game yesterday? I hate to even use the word random because I do think that a manager's decisions can greatly affect any games outcome but yesterday I didn't see much that Alex actually did that lead us to victory. We got lucky. You or I could have been in that dugout yesterday and we likely would have won the game. Bottom line for me so far this season is yes we have gotten off to a great start beating teams that we are expected to beat but we sure have had some luck on our side if you ask me.

 

Yes, and when the team won with "Morgan magic," which was actually based on hocus pocus, fans loved the guy. That turned on a dime, when things went badly.

[cp176]

Yes, and when the team won with "Morgan magic," which was actually based on hocus pocus, fans loved the guy. That turned on a dime, when things went badly.

 

I remember that so very well!

[mvp 78]

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/04/05/cora-makes-red-sox-a-team-of-peace-and-confidence/

 

They look relaxed and confident. Of course, winning streaks will do that. But these Boston Red Sox say they are stronger. They can feel it.

 

Hanley Ramirez is one of those confident players.

 

What changed?

 

“Got to give credit to that guy in the office right there,” Ramirez said, pointing to Alex Cora’s workplace in the Red Sox clubhouse.

 

What has Cora done?

 

“From Day 1,” Ramirez said, not finishing the sentence.

 

I’ll finish it. From Day 1 of Alex Cora’s brief time as the Boston Red Sox manager, he’s instilled a sense of calm and confidence.

 

Boston is baseball-crazy. People like to say the fans can be passionate. But face it, the perspective easily gets lost in this mentality that every game is a must-win … in a 162-game schedule.

 

Cora isn’t going there.

 

“I don’t get caught up, man,” he said.

 

“The baseball experience is awesome but you can’t get caught up with it, because instead of having fun with it, it becomes a grind,” he said.

 

“I know I’m going to have good days, bad days, horrible days, I know that. But I’ll keep it simple. We have a good team and a great organization … This is my office, Fenway Park. It’s a special place. I’m having fun with it.

 

“It’s not that I’m hiding my emotions. It’s just how I feel … I’m comfortable doing my job and where I’m at.”

 

And his calm seems to rub off.

 

“There’s no panic in the dugout,” Ramirez said. “Everyone is relaxing and letting things happen. The more you get tight, the harder things get.

 

“Stay loose and let the game come to you.”

[Maxbialystock]

Ok Max - First of all I am a Cora fan. But (God help me for saying this) what did he actually do that made it possible for us to win that game yesterday? I hate to even use the word random because I do think that a manager's decisions can greatly affect any games outcome but yesterday I didn't see much that Alex actually did that lead us to victory. We got lucky. You or I could have been in that dugout yesterday and we likely would have won the game. Bottom line for me so far this season is yes we have gotten off to a great start beating teams that we are expected to beat but we sure have had some luck on our side if you ask me.

 

Napoleon once said he wanted generals/marshalls who were lucky more than he wanted them to be smart.

 

Managers are hired to be fired, and to me the only valid criteria for evaluating them are: 1) the team's won-lost record; 2) whether that won-lost record was above or below expectations. So far it is unarguable that Cora has done well on both counts. Of course, it's still early, and there is no way I or anyone can say the season will end as well as it has begun.

 

As for yesterday, here's how I think he contributed--

 

1. He kept his lineup of Mookie, Beni, HanRam, JD, Bogaerts, Devers, Nunez, JBJ, and Vazquez. After languishing for 8 innings, they came alive against the Ray bullpen.

2. He kept Price in for 7 innings, which to me was exactly right.

3. He plugged in Velazquez for 1 good inning (the 9th, the one in which we tied the game) and rookie Poyner for 2 (and the win). He also used his $13M closer, who for the 3d time in a row had 2 or 3 baserunners when he finally got his 3d out. Heck, I can't even fault him for using Smith because Carson is supposed to be able to pitch a good 8th: his career ERA is 2.29. Plus he left him in after the 2 run dinger, and he got 3 outs.

4. He plugged in Swihart to pinch run for JD after his single in the 11th. if Nunez singled, Swihart has a better chance to score than JD. Plus Swihart so far has the same OPS as JD in case he has to hit later.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[Kimmi]

But does a great closer (or a great late inning bullpen) have any impact at all on close game randomness?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'close game randomness'. If you mean does a great bullpen have any impact on a team being able to play better than .500 in one run games over the season, then yes. A great bullpen does have a slight impact on that.

 

The key word here is 'slight' though.

[Kimmi]

It is an interesting concept - randomness. I think that it is much easier to comment about things like this in hindsight. What ifs if you will. Managers will continue to make decisions during every game that is played. Maybe in certain situations the impact is great and perhaps in some it would make no difference whether they were there or not. My preference will always be to have someone calling the shots who actually makes decisions based on what they feel are right in the moment. I'll take my chances with those guys. Hindsight allows us to scrutinize every move they make. When there are no managers and no coaches, maybe then we will actually know how much of a difference a good one might make.

 

I'm not talking about managers decisions when I talk about randomness. I'm talking about things like a closer making the perfect pitch to a batter, and the batter hitting a 20 foot check swing dribbler for a game winning hit. Did the batter really beat the pitcher because he was more skilled than the pitcher, or did the batter get lucky?

 

That's randomness. And there are many of these random events that take place every game.

[Kimmi]

All the randomness? The mere fact that teams have scouting reports alone dismisses this randomness run amok argument. I can’t get a scouting report on a roulette table. I think your position is about ‘Chance’, not ‘Randomness’, right?Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability. Baseball is full of patterns and predictability and probability. There's foreknowledge and past events that are available to consider.

 

A one-run Save situation is the smallest margin for error a Closer can have. Also means the opposing team has to score the least amount of runs possible (1), other than zero, to escape the save. I don’t always think there has to be luck or randomness involved, but if there were a time and place for luck and randomness to happen and be meaningful, a one-out save situation would be it.

 

Read my previous post for what I'm talking about when it comes to randomness. All the scouting reports in the world cannot prevent randomness, or luck, if you will.

 

Things as simple as an umpire calling a 3rd strike on a batter on a pitch that was a ball is a random event.

 

Having a hit that bounces over the fence for a ground rule double as opposed to bouncing around the outfield is a random event.

 

Having the wind/sun turn JD's fly ball out into a triple yesterday is a random event.

[Kimmi]

If the mistake directly resulted in the loss, I don't see how he doesn't share responsibility for the loss.

 

The 'mistake' did not directly result in the loss.

[Kimmi]

https://deadspin.com/what-did-gabe-kapler-f***-up-this-time-1825010802

 

Just glad I'm not a Philly fan.

 

Poor Gabe. I'm pulling for him.

[Kimmi]

Ok Max - First of all I am a Cora fan. But (God help me for saying this) what did he actually do that made it possible for us to win that game yesterday? I hate to even use the word random because I do think that a manager's decisions can greatly affect any games outcome but yesterday I didn't see much that Alex actually did that lead us to victory. We got lucky. You or I could have been in that dugout yesterday and we likely would have won the game. Bottom line for me so far this season is yes we have gotten off to a great start beating teams that we are expected to beat but we sure have had some luck on our side if you ask me.

 

I agree with this. But by the same token, one cannot turn around and say that Cora lost a specific game for us. Not saying you, but posters in general.

 

It's the players that ultimately have to perform.

 

I'm not saying that a manager does not make mistakes. Just that a win or a loss should not be pinned on the manager.

[Kimmi]

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/04/05/cora-makes-red-sox-a-team-of-peace-and-confidence/

 

They look relaxed and confident. Of course, winning streaks will do that. But these Boston Red Sox say they are stronger. They can feel it.

 

Hanley Ramirez is one of those confident players.

 

What changed?

 

“Got to give credit to that guy in the office right there,” Ramirez said, pointing to Alex Cora’s workplace in the Red Sox clubhouse.

 

What has Cora done?

 

“From Day 1,” Ramirez said, not finishing the sentence.

 

I’ll finish it. From Day 1 of Alex Cora’s brief time as the Boston Red Sox manager, he’s instilled a sense of calm and confidence.

 

Boston is baseball-crazy. People like to say the fans can be passionate. But face it, the perspective easily gets lost in this mentality that every game is a must-win … in a 162-game schedule.

 

Cora isn’t going there.

 

“I don’t get caught up, man,” he said.

 

“The baseball experience is awesome but you can’t get caught up with it, because instead of having fun with it, it becomes a grind,” he said.

 

“I know I’m going to have good days, bad days, horrible days, I know that. But I’ll keep it simple. We have a good team and a great organization … This is my office, Fenway Park. It’s a special place. I’m having fun with it.

 

“It’s not that I’m hiding my emotions. It’s just how I feel … I’m comfortable doing my job and where I’m at.”

 

And his calm seems to rub off.

 

“There’s no panic in the dugout,” Ramirez said. “Everyone is relaxing and letting things happen. The more you get tight, the harder things get.

 

“Stay loose and let the game come to you.”

 

What I have always believed is that the job a manager does off the field is far more important than the in game decisions that he makes.

 

And I don't even have stats to back that up. How about that?

[a700hitter]

Fair enough. However, please feel free to quote yourself in any thread thus far in which you say Cora did something good.

 

Maybe something like, "wow. The Sox can't hit spit but they are 6-1 and leading the AL East by 2 games. Cora seems to know what he is doing in close games, of which there have been a lot."

 

What I'm getting at is the normal catch 22 for Sox managers. If the bullpen does well, it's because they pitched well. If they don't, it's the manager's fault. You would not be the first to think that way.

I have commented on these boards about how great it is to be 6-1 while others have said that it has been against weak competition.

 

Good managing is like good umpiring -- no one notices it or comments on it as the focus is on the players on the field. That is why you will not find me making positive comments about any manager (except on rare occasions), but a lack of positive comments about Cora should not have a negative connotation, just as a criticism of a particular managerial decision should not be interpreted as a condemnation of Cora. You can't seem to grasp that.

[a700hitter]

Actually, I'm not. A ton of people have commented on how dumb Cora was to start JD in RF in the final game in Miami, a game the Sox won. What do you want to bet the same things were said after Carson Smith gave up that 2 run dinger yesterday in the 8th? What was Cora thinking? Couldn't he even remember what Smith did in the 8th of game 1 when Denard got that bases clearing triple?

The criticism on the game thread was that I saw was that he should have taken out Smith AFTER the home run. I didn't see any criticism for putting him in to start the inning, but you will just make it up as you go along. Your post indicates that because you stated it in the form of a bet... because you don't know.

[cp176]

I agree with this. But by the same token, one cannot turn around and say that Cora lost a specific game for us. Not saying you, but posters in general.

 

It's the players that ultimately have to perform.

 

I'm not saying that a manager does not make mistakes. Just that a win or a loss should not be pinned on the manager.

 

It would be extremely rare for me to ever blame a loss on a manager. To me that is different than a simple discussion as a fan on a forum board of any manager's decision. On the other hand, I recognize good managing and good leadership when i see it and I would give plenty of credit to a good manager for any win. Possibly even if I felt that they had a limited role in the win. Good makers will take all of the blame for losses and give all of the credit for wins to their players.

[a700hitter]

Did the batter really beat the pitcher because he was more skilled than the pitcher, or did the batter get lucky?

 

That's randomness. And there are many of these random events that take place every game.

If this is the case, we should all just get strat-o-matic baseball and roll the dice and play out every season with randomness.

[a700hitter]

The 'mistake' did not directly result in the loss.

That is because you are fundamentally adverse to accountability. When the managers make a mistake, it is the players' fault. When the players make a mistake, it is the whims of randomness. Do any of your students get less than a B+?

[cp176]

I'm not talking about managers decisions when I talk about randomness. I'm talking about things like a closer making the perfect pitch to a batter, and the batter hitting a 20 foot check swing dribbler for a game winning hit. Did the batter really beat the pitcher because he was more skilled than the pitcher, or did the batter get lucky?

 

That's randomness. And there are many of these random events that take place every game.

 

 

Well my concept of randomness occurs as well. As I said before, looking at yesterday's game, I give credit to Cora for coaching a good game but the outcome of that game was not necessarily affected by anything that he did. He certainly didn't get in his own way but I think that a certain amount of random luck came into play as well.

[cp176]

If this is the case, we should all just get strat-o-matic baseball and roll the dice and play out every season with randomness.

 

 

Hey - come on - I freaking loved that game.

[a700hitter]

Hey - come on - I freaking loved that game.

Me too! It helped me get through the lack of baseball for several winters.

[cp176]

Napoleon once said he wanted generals/marshalls who were lucky more than he wanted them to be smart.

 

Managers are hired to be fired, and to me the only valid criteria for evaluating them are: 1) the team's won-lost record; 2) whether that won-lost record was above or below expectations. So far it is unarguable that Cora has done well on both counts. Of course, it's still early, and there is no way I or anyone can say the season will end as well as it has begun.

 

As for yesterday, here's how I think he contributed--

 

1. He kept his lineup of Mookie, Beni, HanRam, JD, Bogaerts, Devers, Nunez, JBJ, and Vazquez. After languishing for 8 innings, they came alive against the Ray bullpen.

2. He kept Price in for 7 innings, which to me was exactly right.

3. He plugged in Velazquez for 1 good inning (the 9th, the one in which we tied the game) and rookie Poyner for 2 (and the win). He also used his $13M closer, who for the 3d time in a row had 2 or 3 baserunners when he finally got his 3d out. Heck, I can't even fault him for using Smith because Carson is supposed to be able to pitch a good 8th: his career ERA is 2.29. Plus he left him in after the 2 run dinger, and he got 3 outs.

4. He plugged in Swihart to pinch run for JD after his single in the 11th. if Nunez singled, Swihart has a better chance to score than JD. Plus Swihart so far has the same OPS as JD in case he has to hit later.

 

Hey I give him all the credit in the world but I would hope that most good managers would have done the same things. Regardless of the way he played it yesterday, ultimately we got lucky as we have in a number of games this season. I'm not complaining.

[mvp 78]

Poor Gabe. I'm pulling for him.

 

Good guy. Bad manager.

[mvp 78]

What I have always believed is that the job a manager does off the field is far more important than the in game decisions that he makes.

 

And I don't even have stats to back that up. How about that?

 

I agree. One of my concerns last year was how Farrell handled the Pedey and Price situations. The clubhouse seems to be in a better place this year under Cora.

[Maxbialystock]

I have commented on these boards about how great it is to be 6-1 while others have said that it has been against weak competition.

 

Good managing is like good umpiring -- no one notices it or comments on it as the focus is on the players on the field. That is why you will not find me making positive comments about any manager (except on rare occasions), but a lack of positive comments about Cora should not have a negative connotation, just as a criticism of a particular managerial decision should not be interpreted as a condemnation of Cora. You can't seem to grasp that.

 

Actually, that's a pretty good observation. I myself rarely if ever say, "wow. Cora or Farrell or Francona really did a great job in that game." I got my dander up chiefly because of the thread title. Plus, as you know, I like to argue.

[a700hitter]

Actually, that's a pretty good observation. I myself rarely if ever say, "wow. Cora or Farrell or Francona really did a great job in that game." I got my dander up chiefly because of the thread title. Plus, as you know, I like to argue.

...and your wife won't put up with it?

[Kimmi]

It would be extremely rare for me to ever blame a loss on a manager. To me that is different than a simple discussion as a fan on a forum board of any manager's decision. On the other hand, I recognize good managing and good leadership when i see it and I would give plenty of credit to a good manager for any win. Possibly even if I felt that they had a limited role in the win. Good makers will take all of the blame for losses and give all of the credit for wins to their players.

 

I have no problems with questioning a manager's decisions. I, myself, have stated that I think Cora left Kelly in the game too long. I will also give the manager credit when I think he made a good move. Correct move or not, the players still need to execute.

 

The actual decision of the manager is not what impacts the game greatly. It's the execution, or lack thereof, by the players that impacts the outcome of the game.

[Kimmi]

If this is the case, we should all just get strat-o-matic baseball and roll the dice and play out every season with randomness.

 

The talent of truly good teams will be evident in their records in 'blowout' games or games that are determined by more than 3-4 runs.

 

The closer the score, the more randomness trumps skill.

 

That's not just me blowing smoke either. That's a fact.

[Kimmi]

That is because you are fundamentally adverse to accountability. When the managers make a mistake, it is the players' fault. When the players make a mistake, it is the whims of randomness. Do any of your students get less than a B+?

 

Once again, why the need for a personal shot?

 

Not going to waste my time defending myself against false statements.

[a700hitter]

The talent of truly good teams will be evident in their records in 'blowout' games or games that are determined by more than 3-4 runs.

 

The closer the score, the more randomness trumps skill.

 

That's not just me blowing smoke either. That's a fact.

Put me in the camp believing that good teams find ways to win close games, more often than not. While there is randomness, luck is the residue of design. You make your own luck.

[a700hitter]

Once again, why the need for a personal shot?

 

Not going to waste my time defending myself against false statements.

Not an attack at all, just an observation. I think you are a very nice and good person.

[Kimmi]

I agree. One of my concerns last year was how Farrell handled the Pedey and Price situations. The clubhouse seems to be in a better place this year under Cora.

 

I have defended Farrell, and would have been fine had he not been fired.

 

That said, we seem to keep hearing more and more about how the players were unhappy playing for Farrell last year. It was probably time for a new face.