Spring Training 2018 Thread

[moonslav59]

If you lose Bogey, you'll need to spend to replace him. While he is inconsistent and hasn't reached his potential, he is still a very good SS. He's accumulated at least 3.2WAR the last 3 seasons. He will be paid handsomely

 

He will be too expensive for a below average fielding SS.

 

I think we try to keep Sale, Betts & JBJ.

[Bellhorn04]

Ethics, integrity and honesty have a price in baseball. $17 mil more than expected value is a ton of money and business ethics will get blurred

 

On the other hand, you don't want a big controversy in the clubhouse about it either. We had enough of that s*** last year.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

 

Lars Anderson is in Red Sox camp today visiting with former teammates and coaches, introducing them to bats he and Birdman Bats cofounder @garymalec are making. Lars plans to continue his global baseball adventures by playing in Germany this year.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9018&position=1B

[Spudboy]

Oh and by the way, I realize that I'm standing kind of alone on this too. I'm thinking that I might see the world a little differently. Maybe I just don't get out much.

 

You are not alone on this. Some of us have learned ethics over the years. Backing out of a contractual obligation is clearly unethical. In any field of endeavor.

 

So I don't care for team design that prevents a player from earning what a team freely agreed to pay him.

 

At the same time I want that $22. Mil gone as soon as possible. I am conflicted but in the end I believe that the Sox should do what they agreed to do.

[Emp9]

You are not alone on this. Some of us have learned ethics over the years. Backing out of a contractual obligation is clearly unethical. In any field of endeavor.

 

So I don't care for team design that prevents a player from earning what a team freely agreed to pay him.

 

At the same time I want that $22. Mil gone as soon as possible. I am conflicted but in the end I believe that the Sox should do what they agreed to do.

 

In my opinion, I think the obligation to the fans and winning baseball games supercedes any formal contract. If playing HanRam more (and his option vests) because he’s helping us win, so be it. If platooning him w/ Moreland Because it makes sense and we’re a better team because of it (and his option doesn’t vest), so be it.

[moonslav59]

In my opinion, I think the obligation to the fans and winning baseball games supercedes any formal contract. If playing HanRam more (and his option vests) because he’s helping us win, so be it. If platooning him w/ Moreland Because it makes sense and we’re a better team because of it (and his option doesn’t vest), so be it.

 

The only problem arises, if the choice is close to 50-50.

[mvp 78]

The only problem arises, if the choice is close to 50-50.

 

Of if Hanley gets to 480 AB's and makes a fuss over a lack of playing time at year end.

[oldtimer]

He will be too expensive for a below average fielding SS.

 

I think we try to keep Sale, Betts & JBJ.

 

If JBJ continues to be the inconsistent hitter who tails off late in the year, I wouldn't bet on keeping him. Granted that he is an above average defensive CF, I would really like to see offensive production from him. There will be some hard choices coming up at the end of this season. Who to keep and spend money on and who to trade among our younger hoe grown players.

[moonslav59]

If JBJ continues to be the inconsistent hitter who tails off late in the year, I wouldn't bet on keeping him. Granted that he is an above average defensive CF, I would really like to see offensive production from him. There will be some hard choices coming up at the end of this season. Who to keep and spend money on and who to trade among our younger hoe grown players.

 

JBJ is an equal opportunity slumper.

 

Perhaps his hottest streak ever was at the tail end of 2015 (9 HRs and 40 RBI in the last 2 months).

[Kimmi]

Even if he is unconscious in 2018 and hitting every ball he sees out of the park, he isn't seeing 497PAs.

 

Of course he is. Especially if the alternatives aren't doing squat.

[Kimmi]

In my opinion, I think the obligation to the fans and winning baseball games supercedes any formal contract. If playing HanRam more (and his option vests) because he’s helping us win, so be it. If platooning him w/ Moreland Because it makes sense and we’re a better team because of it (and his option doesn’t vest), so be it.

 

Well said. Performance should dictate playing time, not whether the option vests or not.

[Kimmi]

Cora stated today that he expects JD to get a fair amount of playing time in the OF, allowing for more at bats for both Hanley and Moreland.

[Emp9]

If JBJ continues to be the inconsistent hitter who tails off late in the year, I wouldn't bet on keeping him. Granted that he is an above average defensive CF, I would really like to see offensive production from him. There will be some hard choices coming up at the end of this season. Who to keep and spend money on and who to trade among our younger hoe grown players.

 

“Above average CF” ... were you going for an massive understatment here or...? Maybe its a good thing JBJ isn’t an offensive force. If he was, he’d arguably be the best player in MLB (think Trout) and we probably couldn’t pay him what the market says he’s worth when the time comes.

[moonslav59]

JBJ is a keeper, as long as he stays over .720, even then...

[Emp9]

JBJ is a keeper, as long as he stays over .720, even then...

 

Play gold glove CF, bat 9th. Stay forever.

[S5Dewey]

You are not alone on this. Some of us have learned ethics over the years. Backing out of a contractual obligation is clearly unethical. In any field of endeavor.

 

So I don't care for team design that prevents a player from earning what a team freely agreed to pay him.

 

At the same time I want that $22. Mil gone as soon as possible. I am conflicted but in the end I believe that the Sox should do what they agreed to do.

 

Nothing blurs ethics faster than money.

[cp176]

You are not alone on this. Some of us have learned ethics over the years. Backing out of a contractual obligation is clearly unethical. In any field of endeavor.

 

So I don't care for team design that prevents a player from earning what a team freely agreed to pay him.

 

At the same time I want that $22. Mil gone as soon as possible. I am conflicted but in the end I believe that the Sox should do what they agreed to do.

 

I'm really pleased that you posted this. I feel exactly the same way you do. It has to do I guess with the way I was brought up.

[cp176]

Great article about Kimbrel's return today. Accurate, appropriate, emotional- this man and his wife get it. It must be borderline torture for him right now. I think that he is pretty pleased with the care his little girl is getting in Boston. Very pleased with the Red Sox organization as well. Sometimes I guess there is a place where doing the ethically right thing is very valuable. Hope they never change.

[S5Dewey]

Great article about Kimbrel's return today. Accurate, appropriate, emotional- this man and his wife get it. It must be borderline torture for him right now. I think that he is pretty pleased with the care his little girl is getting in Boston. Very pleased with the Red Sox organization as well. Sometimes I guess there is a place where doing the ethically right thing is very valuable. Hope they never change.

 

Im giving each of your two most recent posts a rating of +100 on a scale of 1-100.

[cp176]

Im giving each of your two most recent posts a rating of +100 on a scale of 1-100.

 

I think that it is because you are a fellow Mainer but I'll take it. Thanks - lol

[moonslav59]

Great article about Kimbrel's return today. Accurate, appropriate, emotional- this man and his wife get it. It must be borderline torture for him right now. I think that he is pretty pleased with the care his little girl is getting in Boston. Very pleased with the Red Sox organization as well. Sometimes I guess there is a place where doing the ethically right thing is very valuable. Hope they never change.

 

Very well said.

[mvp 78]

“Above average CF” ... were you going for an massive understatment here or...? Maybe its a good thing JBJ isn’t an offensive force. If he was, he’d arguably be the best player in MLB (think Trout) and we probably couldn’t pay him what the market says he’s worth when the time comes.

 

Massive understatement?

 

JBJ was the 9th rated dWAR CFer last year.

 

He was 24th for UZR 150.

 

His ARM was below replacement level.

 

The only value where he is at the top is FSR (or Fan Scouting Report which can be highly biased).

 

Honestly, he's not even the first or second best CFer in the AL East.

[moonslav59]

Massive understatement?

 

JBJ was the 9th rated dWAR CFer last year.

 

He was 24th for UZR 150.

 

His ARM was below replacement level.

 

The only value where he is at the top is FSR (or Fan Scouting Report which can be highly biased).

 

Honestly, he's not even the first or second best CFer in the AL East.

 

The AL East is blessed with some great defensive OF'ers. It's no slight to be 3rd best out of this group.

 

fangraphs stresses the importance of using 3 year sample sizes for UZR/150, especially for OF'ers who have much less chances than infielders.

 

Here's the 3 year numbers:

 

11th among CF'ers with 2,000+ innings at +4.9

 

8th in Arm at +2.9

 

He's 7th in DRS. Kiermaier and Pillar are 1-2. I'm fine with JBJ being 3rd best to those two.

 

+4.9 is easily "above average", but the numbers have to really shown greatness.

 

I think the fact that he makes plays look easy hurts his ranking. He's not fast, but he gets great jumps and takes the right angle just about every time.

Edited March 20, 2018 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

The AL East is blessed with some great defensive OF'ers. It's no slight to be 3rd best out of this group.

 

fangraphs stresses the importance of using 3 year sample sizes for UZR/150, especially for OF'ers who have much less chances than infielders.

 

Here's the 3 year numbers:

 

11th among CF'ers with 2,000+ innings at +4.9

 

8th in Arm at +2.9

 

He's 7th in DRS. Kiermaier and Pillar are 1-2. I'm fine with JBJ being 3rd best to those two.

 

+4.9 is easily "above average", but the numbers have to really shown greatness.

 

I think the fact that he makes plays look easy hurts his ranking. He's not fast, but he gets great jumps and takes the right angle just about every time.

 

He's certainly good, but sometimes posters make him out to be the greatest CFer ever to lace up cleats.

[Jack Flap]

I don't see much point in sweating the Hanley option at this point. If he stays healthy, fields his position competently, and can be the same type of offensive force he was in 2016, he's going to play, the option will likely vest, and I doubt very many will find grounds to complain about it; if those things don't happen, we have a competent safety net in place (Moreland) plus an interesting prospect option waiting in the wings (Travis), and Ramirez will deservedly find himself playing a lot less. Guessing from his comments at the beginning of the spring, Hanley probably understands this better than anyone and should be highly motivated to succeed.

 

Benching him for purely financial reasons when he's producing on the field would sit wrong with me, but it's difficult to see that happening. This is a team that's built to win now, and if he's the best option any given day, he needs to play -- and we'll figure out 2019 later.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Jack Flap

[mvp 78]

I don't see much point in sweating the Hanley option at this point. If he stays healthy, fields his position competently, and can be the same type of offensive force he was in 2016, he's going to play, the option will likely vest, and I doubt very many will find grounds to complain about it; if those things don't happen, we have a competent safety net in place (Moreland) plus an interesting prospect option waiting in the wings (Travis), and Ramirez will deservedly find himself playing a lot less. Guessing from his comments at the beginning of the spring, Hanley probably understands this better than anyone and should be highly motivated to succeed.

 

Benching him for purely financial reasons when he's producing on the field would sit wrong with me, but it's difficult to see that happening. This is a team that's built to win now, and if he's the best option any given day, he needs to play -- and we'll figure out 2019 later.

 

Probably not the best way to go about roster construction.

[Jack Flap]

Probably not the best way to go about roster construction.

 

Normally I'd agree, but we're talking about someone who's already on the roster and under contract for this season. I don't think it should be terribly controversial to say that his playing time should be based on merit and on what's best for this year's team, which was the only point I was trying to make.

[Slasher9]

Of if Hanley gets to 480 AB's and makes a fuss over a lack of playing time at year end.

 

remind me when HanRam has ever made a fuss whilst wearing a Red Sox uniform?

[mvp 78]

Normally I'd agree, but we're talking about someone who's already on the roster and under contract for this season. I don't think it should be terribly controversial to say that his playing time should be based on merit and on what's best for this year's team, which was the only point I was trying to make.

 

Let's make sure we're not on the hook for him next year. That's a bad contract that could be used more wisely next year.

[mvp 78]

remind me when HanRam has ever made a fuss whilst wearing a Red Sox uniform?

 

If you're making $20M to be s*****, why make a fuss? If you are going to get cheapened out of another $20M, you probably won't be all smiles about it.