Sox re-sign Mitch Moreland

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Love this move--it puts them in a better position to compete for Machado & Harper; whereas signing Hosmer would make it harder.

 

I could see the Red Sox signing JD Martinez and platooning Ramirez with Moreland at 1b. I'm guessing the Red Sox are pretty serious about not letting Hanley's option vest.

 

The only thing is L.Morrison--how much does he end up getting and should the Red Sox have signed him instead of Moreland? Then again, maybe Morrison gets more than Moreland and thus the Red Sox went with the cheaper option. It'll be interesting to see what happens with L.Morrison.

 

1b: Moreland/Ramirez

2b: Hernandez

SS: Bogaerts

3b: Devers

C: Vazquez

LF: Benintendi

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

DH: Martinez

 

lineup:

Betts

Benintendi

Martinez

Moreland/Ramirez

Devers

Bogaerts

Bradley

Hernandez

Vazquez

Edited December 18, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Nick]

Hanley’s option is for $22 mil. You’d save $9 mil

 

goody, we can sign Holt again!

[cp176]

I think Bradley is going somewhere.

 

I think that that is a good possibility.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I agree, it's basically an insurance. No doubt JD is still in play.

 

What if we sign JD to be the DH and our 4th OF? By limiting Hanley's at bats, Sox will save $20M for 2019. In reality we're saving NET $7M by signing Moreland.

 

But Moreland might be a moveable contract after this year. Hanley is basically a sunk cost--the Red Sox must take such measures as to make sure he isn't a sunk cost next year as well. We saw last year that the Red Sox prefer sitting Moreland against lefties. They will play Hanley against lefties, assuming they sign Martinez for DH.

 

I doubt the Red Sox are going to sign JD Martinez and then turn around and weaken their OF defense (trade Bradley) in order to secure a starting DH spot for a sunk cost like Hanley Ramirez. Hanley played himself into a platoon role last season.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[FredLynn]

Love this move--it puts them in a better position to compete for Machado & Harper; whereas signing Hosmer would make it harder.

 

I could see the Red Sox signing JD Martinez and platooning Ramirez with Moreland at 1b. I'm guessing the Red Sox are pretty serious about not letting Hanley's option vest.

 

The only thing is L.Morrison--how much does he end up getting and should the Red Sox have signed him instead of Moreland? Then again, maybe Morrison gets more than Moreland and thus the Red Sox went with the cheaper option. It'll be interesting to see what happens with L.Morrison.

 

1b: Moreland/Ramirez

2b: Hernandez

SS: Bogaerts

3b: Devers

C: Vazquez

LF: Benintendi

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

DH: Martinez

 

lineup:

Betts

Benintendi

Martinez

Moreland/Ramirez

Devers

Bogaerts

Bradley

Hernandez

Vazquez

 

Signing Hosmer would have been even dumber than signing Moreland.

[Slasher9]

Fire DD

[Nick]

But Moreland might be a moveable contract after this year. Hanley is basically a sunk cost--the Red Sox must take such measures as to make sure he isn't a sunk cost next year as well. We saw last year that the Red Sox prefer sitting Moreland against lefties. They will play Hanley against lefties, assuming they sign Martinez for DH.

 

I doubt the Red Sox are going to sign JD Martinez and then turn around and weaken their OF defense (trade Bradley) in order to secure a starting DH spot for a sunk cost like Hanley Ramirez. Hanley played himself into a platoon role last season.

 

Hanley is NOT a SUNKEN cost. If he fails to reach 497 plate appearance in 2018, his 2019 contract is NOT vested. Do you know what you are talking about? That's a savings of $22M BOTH CASH and LUXURY TAX Payroll for 2019.

 

Sandoval's contract is SUNKEN. We're stuck unless he OFFICIALLY retires. (And why would he? He can sit on his ass and wait for a phone call).

[Kimmi]

Clearly a sign of being out on Hosmer - and a low enough dollar amount that if a better solution came, they could address it.

 

Thank goodness.

 

I really have nothing against Hosmer, but I am against paying him the kind of money he is looking for.

[Kimmi]

I hate the signing, but I'm happier it's not Hosmer.

 

I kind of like it. Nice, short contract, and Moreland gives us insurance for Hanley in case he cannot get healthy.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hanley is NOT a SUNKEN cost. If he fails to reach 497 plate appearance in 2018, his 2019 contract is NOT vested. Do you know what you are talking about? That's a savings of $22M BOTH CASH and LUXURY TAX Payroll for 2019.

 

Sandoval's contract is SUNKEN. We're stuck unless he OFFICIALLY retires. (And why would he? He can sit on his ass and wait for a phone call).

 

Exactly. Nick, you are right on the money here. Hanley's contract ends if he doesn't reach 497 PAs in 2018. Now the union will take the sox to court if they hold Hanley out in the final weeks of September to keep the option from vesting. The best way for the sox to avoid that fiasco is to bring in a platoon mate for Hanley, then they wont have to worry about it. And if Hanley beats the competition and lights the world on fire, then the option vesting isn't a big deal. But the sox have to prepare a platoon partner from the getgo or risk paying $22 mil in 2019 for a DH with declining skills

[Kimmi]

This is not going to improve our chances next year.

 

Maybe not, but it doesn't hurt our chances either.

 

Dombrowski will still sign a big bat, namely JD. I have no doubt.

 

The question then becomes whether he trades JBJ or not, which I certainly hope he doesn't. Let JD primarily DH, and let Hanley and Moreland fight it out for 1B playing time.

[Kimmi]

Or keep the lineup as is and sign Darvish or Arrieta. ..

 

!!!

[jacksonianmarch]

Maybe not, but it doesn't hurt our chances either.

 

Dombrowski will still sign a big bat, namely JD. I have no doubt.

 

The question then becomes whether he trades JBJ or not, which I certainly hope he doesn't. Let JD primarily DH, and let Hanley and Moreland fight it out for 1B playing time.

 

Forcing Hanley back into a 1b role might not be in your best interest either. But it might end up being the job going forward. That being said, JD has made inklings over the past few weeks that he wants to play the OF. Right now, the sox don't have an opening. This doesn't change that

[Kimmi]

We shall see. Somehow I don't think Moreland was the 'one person' DD was referring to.

 

No, he isn't. A big bat is most definitely coming.

[Kimmi]

I agree, it's basically an insurance. No doubt JD is still in play.

 

What if we sign JD to be the DH and our 4th OF? By limiting Hanley's at bats, Sox will save $20M for 2019. In reality we're saving NET $7M by signing Moreland.

 

I think this is the plan. Moreland was signed to be a guard against Hanley. At least I hope so. I don't want to trade Jackie.

[Kimmi]

Forcing Hanley back into a 1b role might not be in your best interest either. But it might end up being the job going forward. That being said, JD has made inklings over the past few weeks that he wants to play the OF. Right now, the sox don't have an opening. This doesn't change that

 

JD could get his fair share of at bats in the OF as a 4th outfielder. Regardless, he'll agree to DH if the money is right.

[jacksonianmarch]

JD could get his fair share of at bats in the OF as a 4th outfielder. Regardless, he'll agree to DH if the money is right.

 

DD goes and gets his man. He's the kind of guy who is willing to overpay for prime talent and he does it early. I am certain that Dave is the highest bidder right now. I doubt he gets outbid. With the statements out there, I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason for holding out is to find a job with OF potential. I know Dave has given up talent to get talent. I know he has paid heavily to get talent. But has he traded someone off so the talent would sign with him? That is what I am speculating after reading these "quotes from people familiar with JD's thinking" ie Scott Boras and JD Martinez or his wife

[harmony]

Hanley is NOT a SUNKEN cost. If he fails to reach 497 plate appearance in 2018, his 2019 contract is NOT vested. Do you know what you are talking about? That's a savings of $22M BOTH CASH and LUXURY TAX Payroll for 2019.

 

Sandoval's contract is SUNKEN. We're stuck unless he OFFICIALLY retires. (And why would he? He can sit on his ass and wait for a phone call).

The $22 million that Hanley Ramirez is owed in 2018 is a sunken cost.

[MADSTORK]

DD should be setting this Organization up for a run at the big Free agent Class of 18-19. Harper Brantley Machado Donaldson Blackmon Kershaw Harvey Keuchel and the list goes on...

 

Im not opposed to signing a fringe type Hitter but the more you here about some of these proposed deals for the talent level this season, it might be a good idea to wait it out....

 

Your handcuffed with Ramirez at the moment especially with the vesting option. If Im DD there is no way Ramirez reaches the Kicker on AB's to kick in the option. Not a chance. Perfect scenario, find a hungry team to take the contract on even if you kick in a prospect see NYY....

[Kimmi]

DD goes and gets his man. He's the kind of guy who is willing to overpay for prime talent and he does it early. I am certain that Dave is the highest bidder right now. I doubt he gets outbid. With the statements out there, I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason for holding out is to find a job with OF potential. I know Dave has given up talent to get talent. I know he has paid heavily to get talent. But has he traded someone off so the talent would sign with him? That is what I am speculating after reading these "quotes from people familiar with JD's thinking" ie Scott Boras and JD Martinez or his wife

 

I don't know that Dombrowski would trade JBJ just to appease JD. IMO, Dombrowski would increase the amount of the contract before doing that. However, it's possible that Dombrowski already had the intention of trading JBJ once JD is signed, so who knows?

[moonslav59]

The $22 million that Hanley Ramirez is owed in 2018 is a sunken cost.

 

Not totally, and there's a less than 50% chance but significant nonetheless he does as good or better than 2016.

[moonslav59]

I think this is the plan. Moreland was signed to be a guard against Hanley. At least I hope so. I don't want to trade Jackie.

 

$13M as insurance?

[harmony]

$13M as insurance?

I wonder what team(s) the Red Sox were bidding against for Mitch Moreland's services.

[fxkatt]

Sign JD and Cobb and call it a day.

[moonslav59]

I wonder what team(s) the Red Sox were bidding against for Mitch Moreland's services.

 

I wondered the same last year.

 

Many felt we jumped the gun and lost out on EE due to the the haste.

[Bellhorn04]

Sign JD and Cobb and call it a day.

 

I like how you think!

[Larry Cook]

A weird offseason continues! Something seems to be going on behind the scenes,

 

Dave is by nature very aggressive, he usually does his impersonation of the black mamba, striking quick, without thinking and leaving a trail of dead bodies behind.

 

But this offseason, he is doing his best impersination of elephants having sex. There is a lot of dust and a lot of noise, but at the end of the day, there is not a lot really happening there.

 

And while I am comfortable with the Moreland signing, I feel this is plan g. And yet I can not figure out why or how dave got this far off track.

[Emp9]

Moreland again huh?

 

I think I’d have prefered a broken Nunez.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Hanley is NOT a SUNKEN cost. If he fails to reach 497 plate appearance in 2018, his 2019 contract is NOT vested. Do you know what you are talking about? That's a savings of $22M BOTH CASH and LUXURY TAX Payroll for 2019.

 

Sandoval's contract is SUNKEN. We're stuck unless he OFFICIALLY retires. (And why would he? He can sit on his ass and wait for a phone call).

 

Ramirez is a sunk cost in that he is owed 22 million in 2018, the Red Sox can't trade him, he is worthless (-0.3 WAR) as a player, and I don't believe he will show signs of improvement. Thus, the Red Sox could release Ramirez tomorrow and such a move wouldn't have a negative impact on the 2018 Red Sox. You could easily replace Hanley at a fraction of the cost.

 

As far as 2019 goes, I agree the Red Sox cannot possibly allow the option to vest. The Red Sox have already paid him a fortune and he sucks as a player.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[jacksonianmarch]

DD should be setting this Organization up for a run at the big Free agent Class of 18-19. Harper Brantley Machado Donaldson Blackmon Kershaw Harvey Keuchel and the list goes on...

 

Im not opposed to signing a fringe type Hitter but the more you here about some of these proposed deals for the talent level this season, it might be a good idea to wait it out....

 

Your handcuffed with Ramirez at the moment especially with the vesting option. If Im DD there is no way Ramirez reaches the Kicker on AB's to kick in the option. Not a chance. Perfect scenario, find a hungry team to take the contract on even if you kick in a prospect see NYY....

 

MADSTORK, there is absolutely no way the sox will be big players in the 2019 FA frenzy aside from trying to sign their own players. Lets look at committed salaries for 2019

David Price $31 mil

Rick Porcello $21.125 mil

Pablo Sandoval $18.6 mil

Dustin Pedroia $13.75 mil

Chris Sale $8.2 mil (for AAV purposes)

Mitch Moreland $6.5 mil

 

That's $100 mil tied up right there in those 6 players

 

Lets look at your FA's

Craig Kimbrel

Drew Pomeranz

Joe Kelly

 

2019 is the final year of:

Chris Sale

Xander Bogaerts

 

 

Arb figures for 2019 figure to be massive (assuming reasonable 2018s)

Bogaerts figures to be around $12 mil

Betts figures to be around $14 mil

Bradley figures to be around $10 mil

 

That takes you up to $140 mil or thereabouts. That doesn't even begin to touch the other pen guys who will be arb eligible. It doesn't take into account your catchers. It also doesn't take into account an addition from this year (a la JD Martinez). It also doesn't take into account either re-signing or replacing Pomeranz and Kimbrel, which aint gonna be easy. You figure if the sox just keep the band together, they will be hitting right up against the upper limit of the lux tax penalties and that's just keeping the 2018 band together never mind saving for re-signing Sale and Betts. Long story short, planning for next year's FA market is a fools errand. Enjoy 2018