The Depth Argument

[notin]

I get that his stuff is special. But he’s probably heading back to A ball this year, meaning that he’s probably 2-3 years away from the majors. He’s had injury and command issues. His dad is more than a distraction, the 20 yr old was raised by a gun and drug runner. Whether anyone wants to admit it or now, that’s a big red flag. The kid dropped in the draft due to maturity issues as well. I’m not saying he’s not a prospect. I am saying he’s lost enough luster to not be a headliner for a major deal should you trade him. He’s enough of a “toxic asset” that the sox are going to have to keep him and see what he does, which may not be a bad thing for you guys

 

Absolutely his dad is a big distraction. Just like how so many teams are shying away from Josh Donaldson.

 

Do you really think his dad is an issue? Josh Hamilton got multiple chances and his issue wad HIM, not his dad. Ever hear of Willie Wilson, Willie Aikens, Steve Howe, Darryl Strawberry, Tim Raines? Like it or not, talent is all matters

 

And if Groome can pitch, that's all that matters as well....

[Kimmi]

The problem with Bogaerts is assuming he bounces back from the wrist injury (and that's a pretty big assumption) he historically fades in the second half of the season. If the Sox are to get past the first round of the playoffs they'll need Bogey to play better later in the year than he has done in the past.

 

Wrist/hand injuries are a tricky thing, as they can tend to linger. If Bogaerts is healthy, I expect a very good year from him. He was hitting very well before the injury last season. I realize that he might have faded in the 2nd half even without the injury, but he might have just as likely gone on to have a great season.

 

Also, he has been working on improving his launch angle. I think that will help.

[jacksonianmarch]

Absolutely his dad is a big distraction. Just like how so many teams are shying away from Josh Donaldson.

 

Do you really think his dad is an issue? Josh Hamilton got multiple chances and his issue wad HIM, not his dad. Ever hear of Willie Wilson, Willie Aikens, Steve Howe, Darryl Strawberry, Tim Raines? Like it or not, talent is all matters

 

And if Groome can pitch, that's all that matters as well....

 

Josh Donaldson's dad went away when Josh was little. Groome's dad is going away the year after he signed with the sox. Big difference there. Also, the guys above all fell on hard times after proving they can do it in the majors. I am not saying he has no worth. I am saying that there are enough questions to devalue him until he proves it on the field.

[Larry Cook]

Josh Donaldson's dad went away when Josh was little. Groome's dad is going away the year after he signed with the sox. Big difference there. Also, the guys above all fell on hard times after proving they can do it in the majors. I am not saying he has no worth. I am saying that there are enough questions to devalue him until he proves it on the field.

 

Once the scouts see groome throw, they will up his value. No doubt! His stuff is electric.

 

I have not seen a sox minor league pitcher with his kind of stuff. (Disclaimer: I never saw Clemens, hurst, Boyd or Ojea. Before my time.)

[moonslav59]

Once the scouts see groome throw, they will up his value. No doubt! His stuff is electric.

 

I have not seen a sox minor league pitcher with his kind of stuff. (Disclaimer: I never saw Clemens, hurst, Boyd or Ojea. Before my time.)

 

Did you ever see Espinoza?

[notin]

Josh Donaldson's dad went away when Josh was little. Groome's dad is going away the year after he signed with the sox. Big difference there. Also, the guys above all fell on hard times after proving they can do it in the majors. I am not saying he has no worth. I am saying that there are enough questions to devalue him until he proves it on the field.

 

I would like to know why Groome's dad going away is a "red flag" and why he needs to be devalued as a prospect because of this. If Gleyber Torres' dad gets arrested tomorrow, will you suddenly decide he is a lesser prospect?

 

Groome is like any other prospect. If he can pitch/play, that will be all that matters.

 

Also if you think all those other players established themselves before drug problems became an issue (despite that it actually made no difference, and certainly a lot less than what they did after their problems), you forgot about Josh Hamilton, who went to his first drug rehab while still in A ball...

Edited January 10, 2018 by notin

[jacksonianmarch]

And that’s why Josh Hamilton went through Rule V instead of lining up in RF for TB for a decade

[Larry Cook]

Did you ever see Espinoza?

 

Yes, small kid with some effort to his delivery. Super fast fastball with no movement, just straight as an arrow. Weak secondary pitches.

I always thought he should have been a closer.

[notin]

And that’s why Josh Hamilton went through Rule V instead of lining up in RF for TB for a decade

 

Silly me. And here I thought Tampa left him unprotected because he put up a .680 OPS in low A-ball as a 25yo. Apparently it was because he went through drug rehab 5 years earlier.

 

I take it this means you won't be answering my other questions. ..

Edited January 10, 2018 by notin

[mvp 78]

Silly me. And here I thought Tampa left him unprotected because he put up a .680 OPS in low A-ball as a 25yo. Apparently it was because he went through drug rehab 5 years earlier.

 

I take it this means you won't be answering my other questions. ..

 

He's busy critiquing the Good Doctor with his pals.

[Elktonnick]

Wrist/hand injuries are a tricky thing, as they can tend to linger. If Bogaerts is healthy, I expect a very good year from him. He was hitting very well before the injury last season. I realize that he might have faded in the 2nd half even without the injury, but he might have just as likely gone on to have a great season.

 

Also, he has been working on improving his launch angle. I think that will help.

 

I hope he does change his approach toward hitting. I get the biggest kick out of everyone talking about launch angle. That is nothing more than the swing that Ted Williams taught. I am old enough to remember the big argument that Williams had with Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak style back in the day. Because of his wrist injury, Bogaerts adopted the classic Charlie Lau Walt Hriniak swing that Rich Gedman became noted for at the end of his career.

[moonslav59]

Wrist injuries can linger or reoccur, but many times they are not a long term problem.

 

He did have a nice ending to 2017 (.803 Sept OPS), including going 25 of his last 78.

[oldtimer]

I hope he does change his approach toward hitting. I get the biggest kick out of everyone talking about launch angle. That is nothing more than the swing that Ted Williams taught. I am old enough to remember the big argument that Williams had with Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak style back in the day. Because of his wrist injury, Bogaerts adopted the classic Charlie Lau Walt Hriniak swing that Rich Gedman became noted for at the end of his career.

 

Williams recommended swinging in the plane of the normal drop of the ball to keep the bat in the hitting zone as long as possible. It worked well for him although he did have great hand/eye coordinattion.

[Bellhorn04]

Williams recommended swinging in the plane of the normal drop of the ball to keep the bat in the hitting zone as long as possible. It worked well for him although he did have great hand/eye coordinattion.

 

Yes, it's probably fair to say that Williams had extraordinary hand/eye coordination, which simply can't be taught.

[Larry Cook]

Yes, it's probably fair to say that Williams had extraordinary hand/eye coordination, which simply can't be taught.

 

I thought Williams had 15-20 vision?

[moonslav59]

I thought Williams had 15-20 vision?

 

I heard he had X-Ray and Infrared vision.

[jacksonianmarch]

I thought Williams had 15-20 vision?

 

It’s 20/15. And if I remember correctly, I think he was 20/10

[cp176]

I heard he had X-Ray and Infrared vision.

 

... and he could leap tall buildings in a single bound!

[moonslav59]

... and he could leap tall buildings in a single bound!

 

On bad days!

[oldtimer]

I still wonder why the Sox have not considered Chavis for 2nd base. Given our needs, he might well fill in that position in the future. Perhaps the FO is reluctant to send that message to Pedroia. Of course Chavis might gravitate to 1st base next year or depending on Devers defense at 3rd he might go there in future with Devers at 1st. Two hitters with excellent power in the infield would be a step in the right direction.

[moonslav59]

I still wonder why the Sox have not considered Chavis for 2nd base. Given our needs, he might well fill in that position in the future. Perhaps the FO is reluctant to send that message to Pedroia. Of course Chavis might gravitate to 1st base next year or depending on Devers defense at 3rd he might go there in future with Devers at 1st. Two hitters with excellent power in the infield would be a step in the right direction.

 

Perhaps, Chavis is not physically equipped to handle 2B.

[harmony]

I still wonder why the Sox have not considered Chavis for 2nd base. Given our needs, he might well fill in that position in the future. Perhaps the FO is reluctant to send that message to Pedroia. Of course Chavis might gravitate to 1st base next year or depending on Devers defense at 3rd he might go there in future with Devers at 1st. Two hitters with excellent power in the infield would be a step in the right direction.

Esteban Quiroz might be the temporary answer at second base:

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/01/esteban_quiroz_who_boston_red.html#incart_river_index

[Kimmi]

I don't have much faith in Swihart being able to play 2nd base well, but IMO, it would be great option if he could.

[mvp 78]

I still wonder why the Sox have not considered Chavis for 2nd base. Given our needs, he might well fill in that position in the future. Perhaps the FO is reluctant to send that message to Pedroia. Of course Chavis might gravitate to 1st base next year or depending on Devers defense at 3rd he might go there in future with Devers at 1st. Two hitters with excellent power in the infield would be a step in the right direction.

 

They don't like his footwork. He's a bad fit up the middle.

[mvp 78]

Esteban Quiroz might be the temporary answer at second base:

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/01/esteban_quiroz_who_boston_red.html#incart_river_index

 

In reality it will be Marco Hernandez.

[moonslav59]

Turning DPs is not an easy task for many MLB players. I don't see Swihart or Chavis doing it at an acceptable level of competence.

[moonslav59]

In reality it will be Marco Hernandez.

 

I see him as being "the guy to beat," but it's not his already.

 

Holt, Quiroz, Lin and Marrero (out of options) may challenge this spring.

[cp176]

In reality it will be Marco Hernandez.

 

Second base is a much more complicated position to play than many realize. You just don't as a rule throw somebody in there who has never played the position (like a Chavis) and expect much from them. Hernandez leads the list of candidates who will man the fort until Pedroia gets back.

[mvp 78]

Second base is a much more complicated position to play than many realize. You just don't as a rule throw somebody in there who has never played the position (like a Chavis) and expect much from them. Hernandez leads the list of candidates who will man the fort until Pedroia gets back.

 

It'll probably be a rotation of guys (Marerro, Hernandez, Holt, Lin, etc.) until they get the right fit. I really like what Lin showed us last year. Maybe he could end up the surprise replacement? At least Josh Rutledge isn't around anymore.

[mvp 78]

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/01/boston_red_sox_top_infield_pro.html#incart_river_index

 

And why would they move Chavis to 2b for a part time position, when they are trying to transition him to 1b? If he's doing well at 1b, it is probably a better long term fit for him in this organization.