Sox Hire Tony La Russa

[Bellhorn04]

IIRC, the Astros are the first 100 win team to win the WS in a very long time

 

The first time in one year.

[sk7326]

The first time in one year.

 

I know! One whole season. But the sentiment is right. True #1 seeds guarantee very little.

 

If you do WS (best team - I mostly went with best record, but used some judgment to account for differences in division strength)

2017: Astros won (Dodgers)

2016: Cubs (Cubs)

2015: Royals (Cardinals)

2014: Giants (Angels)

2013: Red Sox (Red Sox)

2012: Giants (Nationals)

2011: Cardinals (Phillies)

2010: Giants (Phillies)

2009: Yankees (Yankees)

2008: Phillies (Rays)

2007: Red Sox (Red Sox)

2006: Cardinals (Yankees)

2005: White Sox (White Sox)

2004: Red Sox (Yankees)

 

 

So - realistically 5 times in 14 years where what felt like the best team did not win the title. I think this reflects the reality of baseball. While it is not purely random (the cream rises somewhat) ... there is almost never a baseball playoffs where I would bet ANY team against the field.

[moonslav59]

The first time in one year.

 

The Cubs were a 103 win team- not 100.

 

LOL

[mvp 78]

honestly you prefer 1st round KO's? that's my assumption.

 

My preference is to not have to watch a team struggle 3 out of 4 years. Those summers were really rough to get through. I've already had 3 WS titles in my adult life, if they have to go a few more years before I see another, I'll be fine with it. I just don't want to suffer through many more last damn place seasons.

[Kimmi]

My preference is to not have to watch a team struggle 3 out of 4 years. Those summers were really rough to get through. I've already had 3 WS titles in my adult life, if they have to go a few more years before I see another, I'll be fine with it. I just don't want to suffer through many more last damn place seasons.

 

The GM's job is to put together a team that is projected to be competitive and make the playoffs. During the Henry era, every team put together has met that goal, including the teams that have finished in last place. The GM cannot control what happens on the field.

 

To that end, Dombrowski has done his job to date.

[Slasher9]

My preference is to not have to watch a team struggle 3 out of 4 years. Those summers were really rough to get through. I've already had 3 WS titles in my adult life, if they have to go a few more years before I see another, I'll be fine with it. I just don't want to suffer through many more last damn place seasons.

 

Fair.

[moonslav59]

My preference is to not have to watch a team struggle 3 out of 4 years. Those summers were really rough to get through. I've already had 3 WS titles in my adult life, if they have to go a few more years before I see another, I'll be fine with it. I just don't want to suffer through many more last damn place seasons.

 

I understand your position. I hate finishing last or being out of playoff contention in early August. However, the experience of winning a championship is so overwhelming, I have to say, I' rather have the 2012-2015 four year period than the 2008-2011 four year period.

 

Plus, while I feel bad during the season, the off-seasons are worse when hope is low about next year's chances. I'll admit, I was not super high going into 2013, but every one of those four years showed promise before the year started but also a sense that the extended future was getting much brighter. The last few years of Theo's regime, I did not have that sense of long term promise, other than knowing we'd stay somewhat competitive due to alwayd being a top 5 spender. That's not quite as enjoyable as watching homegrown kids like Betts, Bogey, JBJ and others rise- some through periods of intense struggling.

 

I feel really good this winter. I'm not a DD basher. I'd have done a few thing differently, but I know I'm not an expert. I'd have done a few things differently with Ben and Theo, too. I'm fine with sacrificing some of the future for a window as wide as 3-4 years. I hate trading top talent for 2 month rentals. DD has avoided that, thankfully.

 

I'm hoping we win a ring in the next 2-3 years, but I realize we may pay for that a little bit by not being very competitive for a year or two afterwards. I lived the "come so close" era in Sox history that lasted decades. I suffered through over 3 decades of coming close. To me, it was not even close to being as good as the 4 year period under Ben- 3 last places and 1 ring.

 

Those three last place finishes were frustrating, because we didn't seem to have a last place roster. We didn't have a championship roster either, but a lot of players under performed.

[cp176]

Might be an unusual thing for me to say but I really never suffered at all through all of those ever so close years. 86 hurt badly because I truly felt that we were the best of the bunch. It has always been about the season for me. i ran marathons and i believe that the baseball season is much like running one of those. it is about patience and just hanging in there - gutting things out. Winning championships is a fortunate bonus that came along for all of us to enjoy. Boston is the city of champions as far as I am concerned. I actually love the experience of the season much more than I do the playoff season to be honest with you. You have to get there first before you can win though. That is probably why I don't get too engaged when the talk turns to who performs better or best when the playoffs start. I will always take my chances with the guys who can get us there. I'm enjoying the Celtics right now but I will anxiously await the beginning of spring training. I like the cycle.

[Jack Flap]

I hate trading top talent for 2 month rentals. DD has avoided that, thankfully.

 

Agreed...all of his big acquisitions have been guys who can help us for multiple seasons, which I appreciate. Doing something like trading a Gleyber Torres plus others for 2-3 months of Aroldis Chapman would kind of make me sick.

[Jack Flap]

Obviously nothing compares to the experience of winning a championship, but with the postseason being a "crapshoot," as is so often said, consistently putting yourself in contention is the way to maximize your chances. The 2013 team was a one-and-done group that dispersed the next year, sandwiched between losing seasons...that doesn't make that season any less incredible and magical, but I also don't think it excuses all of the other missteps of the Cherington era. Ben always talked about wanting to build a consistent winner, but he didn't quite get to that point...Dave took what Ben left him and added to it to build a club that, though flawed, has won two division titles and, with some further moves this winter, should be right there again for the next couple of years at a minimum. Obviously the long-term ramifications are impossible to know right now and will be debated for a long time, but if the goal is a championship in the here and now, I think it would be tough to ask for much more than what Dombrowski has done.

[mvp 78]

You have a better chance of winning a WS if you are consistently in the playoffs. Riding a rollercoaster from last place to first place to last place is probably the worst way to achieve postseason success as it limits the opportunities to make a postseason run.

[mvp 78]

The GM's job is to put together a team that is projected to be competitive and make the playoffs. During the Henry era, every team put together has met that goal, including the teams that have finished in last place. The GM cannot control what happens on the field.

 

To that end, Dombrowski has done his job to date.

 

 

I sort of agree.

 

Henry era:

 

2002 - gets a pass as he took over during the offseason

2003 - great team

2004 - great team

2005 - team was obviously taking a step back with the starting pitchers being Arroyo, Wakefield, Miller, Wells and Clement, still competitive but WOOOF, also Rentawreck

2006 - results weren't as good as 2005, but the team was in a much better position after adding Beckett and Lowell

2007 - great team

2008 - great team

2009 - good team that overachieved while inserting young players

2010 - good team, but OF became a mess after the Ellsbury injury and Pedroia only played 75 games, can't complain about 89 wins but it really felt like a lost season at the time

2011 - good team that died at the end and became a mess of clubhouse drama

2012 - ugh, by adding BV and going with the same clubhouse as the prior year, they were courting disaster and it came

2013 - great team that saw FA players having career years

2014 - offseason acquisition was AJ Pierzynski, basically counted on having to duplicate the 2013 seasons from aging players and hoping younger guys stepped up, did not work at all

2015 - replaced Lester and Lackey with Porcello and Miley (5 ACES LOL), added Pablo and Hanley, also did not work but younger positional players were maturing and there was hope for the future

2016 - good team, added Price to calm down the rotation, traded for Kimbrel, Mookie became MVP caliber

2017 - good team, Sale was an ok pickup I guess

 

I think the only years I really have a bone to pick with were 2005, 2012 and 2014.

 

It makes sense that there would be a let down no matter what in 2005, but that rotation was really bad.

 

They should have made more of an effort in 2012 to remove some of the clubhouse stink and BV shouldn't have been allowed through the door.

 

2014 was similar to 2005, but it really felt like just throwing s*** at the wall and hoping every young player worked out. That was the year Xander was moved to 3b, brought in Rusney, and Middlebrooks was given his last chance. The opening day roster included Pierzynski, Nava, Grady Sizemore, Mike Carp and Jake Peavy. There's no way that would work long term.

[sk7326]

Since 2002, 13 of the 16 seasons were "good" - my definition of good is, entering September with a realistic path to a playoff spot.

[Jack Flap]

That 2006 team dealt with a ton of injuries, too, IIRC...Manny and Papi both missed time down the stretch, and good god, look at some of the names who started for us that year...

[mvp 78]

That 2006 team dealt with a ton of injuries, too, IIRC...Manny and Papi both missed time down the stretch, and good god, look at some of the names who started for us that year...

 

That 2006 team was built to win. It just didn't work out.

 

2006 was also the Mily Mo Pena year. That was kinda fun.

 

[moonslav59]

I think the only years I really have a bone to pick with were 2005, 2012 and 2014.

 

It makes sense that there would be a let down no matter what in 2005, but that rotation was really bad.

 

They should have made more of an effort in 2012 to remove some of the clubhouse stink and BV shouldn't have been allowed through the door.

 

2012 was hard to figure out. We had the rotation Ben was bashed for trading away. All had bad years at the same time, and everyday players were hurt and under performing as well.

 

5.91 SP'er ERA

4.82 Lester

4.56 Buch

4.86 Doubront

5.23 Beckett

8.28 Dice-K/6.22 Bard/5.65 A Cook

 

.682 OPS by Ellsbury in just 74 games.

 

Cody Ross was great signing, but he wasn't enough.

 

 

2014 saw severe growing pains from ...

JBJ .531

Bogey .660

 

and vets dropping...

.712 Pedey

.873 Papi

 

and Middy (.522), Gomes (.683), Nava (.706) and AJP (.633) pretty much stinking up the place.

 

Even the rotation had issues, especially when compared to 2013...

4.72 Peavy

5.34 Buch

6.07 Doubront

 

It's easy to look for "ifs", but if HRam and Porcello had their 2016 seasons in 2015, maybe things would have turned out much differently.

 

The rotation is often criticized, but their numbers looked better than the great rotation on paper in 2012, yet the 2012 numbers were 80 point higher in ERA over 2015.

 

4.46 Miley

4.92 Porcello

4.82 Kelly

3.85 ERod

3.26 Buch

3.96 Wright

4.57 Owens

 

[mvp 78]

2012 just started with bad juju. There's no way that season was going to work out with the cast of characters they left in there.

 

2014 was a wing and a prayer.

[Spudboy]

Might be an unusual thing for me to say but I really never suffered at all through all of those ever so close years. 86 hurt badly because I truly felt that we were the best of the bunch. It has always been about the season for me. i ran marathons and i believe that the baseball season is much like running one of those. it is about patience and just hanging in there - gutting things out. Winning championships is a fortunate bonus that came along for all of us to enjoy. Boston is the city of champions as far as I am concerned. I actually love the experience of the season much more than I do the playoff season to be honest with you. You have to get there first before you can win though. That is probably why I don't get too engaged when the talk turns to who performs better or best when the playoffs start. I will always take my chances with the guys who can get us there. I'm enjoying the Celtics right now but I will anxiously await the beginning of spring training. I like the cycle.

 

I'm with you on this.

 

It also helps to live near a major leagues city as we do.

[Examiner]

Never liked the guy, like, at all, but I hope he helps the Sox.

[Kimmi]

I think the only years I really have a bone to pick with were 2005, 2012 and 2014.

 

It makes sense that there would be a let down no matter what in 2005, but that rotation was really bad.

 

They should have made more of an effort in 2012 to remove some of the clubhouse stink and BV shouldn't have been allowed through the door.

 

2014 was similar to 2005, but it really felt like just throwing s*** at the wall and hoping every young player worked out. That was the year Xander was moved to 3b, brought in Rusney, and Middlebrooks was given his last chance. The opening day roster included Pierzynski, Nava, Grady Sizemore, Mike Carp and Jake Peavy. There's no way that would work long term.

 

I realize that some of those teams didn't work out as planned, but to my knowledge, every one of the teams were projected to get into the postseason. I also realize that projections don't mean anything and that the games still have to be played, but my point is that the GMs did their jobs in the offseason. I have felt excited entering every season.

 

That, to me, is different than knowing you have a bad team and won't make the playoffs even before the season starts.

[Bellhorn04]

I realize that some of those teams didn't work out as planned, but to my knowledge, every one of the teams were projected to get into the postseason. I also realize that projections don't mean anything and that the games still have to be played, but my point is that the GMs did their jobs in the offseason. I have felt excited entering every season.

 

You're right, since 2002 there haven't been any teams you knew were toast before the season even began. That's a pretty impressive run.

[Bellhorn04]

Until the awful Cliff Years starting in 2021, of course. It'll be the end of an almost 20-year run.

[Kimmi]

Until the awful Cliff Years starting in 2021, of course. It'll be the end of an almost 20-year run.

 

Well, that was kind of my point, but I didn't want to dwell on it any more.

 

At least with Ben's last place finishes, the teams were expected to contend. If we do indeed hit a cliff, then we may have years where the team is projected to finish in last place.

[mvp 78]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/preview15/story/_/id/12588378/expert-team-predictions-2015-mlb-season

 

In 2015, only 3 out of 15 ESPN people thought they'd get into the postseason.

 

It was harder to find rankings for years prior to that.

[moonslav59]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/preview15/story/_/id/12588378/expert-team-predictions-2015-mlb-season

 

In 2015, only 3 out of 15 ESPN people thought they'd get into the postseason.

 

It was harder to find rankings for years prior to that.

 

2014: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2014-mlb-cbssportscom-expert-predictions/

 

1 out of 4 had us at 1st place (2 of 4 in second)

 

 

Bleacher Report had us winning the wild card.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2008842-bleacher-reports-full-2014-mlb-season-preview-and-predictions

[Northern Star]

This board is tough on any move or change made. LaRussa is a proven baseball man and having him to advise and support on acquisitions, both of coaches and players, can be seen as a plus. Perhaps he will have additional roles as well. Glad to see him join the team.

 

LaRussa was behind the Shelby Miller fiasco. Now, that might be the only thing I've got on him, but it's not in the Plus column.

[Northern Star]

Never liked the guy, like, at all, but I hope he helps the Sox.

 

by resigning immediately.

[Larry Cook]

Is Larussa going to be the Cora whisperer? I can not figure out what he brings to the table???

[moonslav59]

Is Larussa going to be the Cora whisperer? I can not figure out what he brings to the table???

 

I think he will be a DD whisperer.