Sox to hire Alex Cora as manager

[Kimmi]

It is interesting that the guys on the field really don't seem agree with this. What I have liked so far about Cora, is that he is not robotic. I am sure that he will use every available piece of research to help him with the decisions that he will make. Now Kimmi, I do not want to argue with you or your legion of fans who support most of what you say. Hey - I respect you too with respect to some things. I like Alex as much now as when he played the game. That says something about the direction I'm coming from most of the time.

 

I think this is a big part of what Cora is talking about when he says that somebody needs to communicate the analytics to the players and get them to buy into it. Most players are not analytically inclined. Of course the players believe that they're going to hit better when they have Papi behind them, because they've been told that their entire baseball lives.

 

FTR, I don't think most people here agree with what I say. I'm okay with that.

[cp176]

I think this is a big part of what Cora is talking about when he says that somebody needs to communicate the analytics to the players and get them to buy into it. Most players are not analytically inclined. Of course the players believe that they're going to hit better when they have Papi behind them, because they've been told that their entire baseball lives.

 

FTR, I don't think most people here agree with what I say. I'm okay with that.

 

Oh come on now - lots of people here agree with you. I agree with respect to most things baseball as well. What I do think about this though is that if a player thinks he is going to be a better hitter because of whatever people mean when they say "protection", he stands a better chance to hit. Believing that you can do something before you attempt to do it in my estimation is very important.

[Spudboy]

Oh come on now - lots of people here agree with you. I agree with respect to most things baseball as well. What I do think about this though is that if a player thinks he is going to be a better hitter because of whatever people mean when they say "protection", he stands a better chance to hit. Believing that you can do something before you attempt to do it in my estimation is very important.

 

"See the ball. Be the ball".

[cp176]

"See the ball. Be the ball".

 

I got to tell you but I think that you already know - It has worked for all of the greatest who ever played any game.

[moonslav59]

Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post

If I could jump in here, based on what Kimmi has said in the past, you should probably have your 5th-best hitter in the #3 spot.

 

My man.

 

That's why I liked the idea of HRam batting 3rd.

 

1. Beni

2. Betts (our best hitter)

3. HRam (our 5th best hitter-maybe)

4. JD (our best power guy)

5. Devers

6. Nunez

7. Bogey

8. JBJ

9. Vaz

[cp176]

Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post

If I could jump in here, based on what Kimmi has said in the past, you should probably have your 5th-best hitter in the #3 spot.

 

My man.

 

That's why I liked the idea of HRam batting 3rd.

 

1. Beni

2. Betts (our best hitter)

3. HRam (our 5th best hitter-maybe)

4. JD (our best power guy)

5. Devers

6. Nunez

7. Bogey

8. JBJ

9. Vaz

 

That is the way I would stack 3-4-5 but it would have 0 to do with the theory of having your 5th best hitter hit third. No one knows nor can really predict what any of these guys will do. You can certainly try to make educated guesses based on what they have done in the past. With respect to Hanley, I agree with him and what he said. He loves the idea of hitting in front of JD and one of the reasons is he believes he will see better pitches to hit. He has done this for a long time - I'm willing to buy into what he has to say.

[sk7326]

I think this is a big part of what Cora is talking about when he says that somebody needs to communicate the analytics to the players and get them to buy into it. Most players are not analytically inclined. Of course the players believe that they're going to hit better when they have Papi behind them, because they've been told that their entire baseball lives.

 

FTR, I don't think most people here agree with what I say. I'm okay with that.

 

The challenge for managers is figuring out how to take stuff analytics suggest and turn it into actionable stuff. It's not necessarily a matter of understanding or not understanding the analytics. That stuff can tell you why stuff happened and possibly what to do to fix it ... but the how is very much up in the air, especially with players who have been playing a certain way their whole lives, rather successfully.

 

I have a hard time thinking that previous managers did not communicate the analytics - granted it probably manifested itself in areas of emphasis - such as unusual defensive alignments.

[cp176]

The challenge for managers is figuring out how to take stuff analytics suggest and turn it into actionable stuff. It's not necessarily a matter of understanding or not understanding the analytics. That stuff can tell you why stuff happened and possibly what to do to fix it ... but the how is very much up in the air, especially with players who have been playing a certain way their whole lives, rather successfully.

 

I have a hard time thinking that previous managers did not communicate the analytics - granted it probably manifested itself in areas of emphasis - such as unusual defensive alignments.

 

Makes sense to me! I think that Cora can relate to both sides of the aisle.

[moonslav59]

That is the way I would stack 3-4-5 but it would have 0 to do with the theory of having your 5th best hitter hit third. No one knows nor can really predict what any of these guys will do. You can certainly try to make educated guesses based on what they have done in the past. With respect to Hanley, I agree with him and what he said. He loves the idea of hitting in front of JD and one of the reasons is he believes he will see better pitches to hit. He has done this for a long time - I'm willing to buy into what he has to say.

 

I used to believe one should start making out a line-up card by putting your best overall hitter 3rd.

 

Proof, I'm not rigid in my beliefs and opinions.

 

 

 

[oldtimer]

I used to believe one should start making out a line-up card by putting your best overall hitter 3rd.

 

Proof, I'm not rigid in my beliefs and opinions.

 

 

 

 

I agree that it makes sense to place our best overall hitter 3rd (not the most powerful). That's why I would put Nunez 3rd at the beginning of the season. I would swap Nunez and Rameriz in your given lineup, although Cora no doubt has other thoughts. Right now I think Vaz has shown himself to be a better hitter than either JBJ and Bogey. At the start of the season and against right handed starters I would consider the lineup of

 

Betts,

Beni

Nunez

JDM

Devers

Rameriz

Vaz

Bogey

JBJ

 

Once Pedey comes back, will Nunez look like our best hitter, and if so, do we take him out of the lineup to favor Pedey?

[cp176]

I used to believe one should start making out a line-up card by putting your best overall hitter 3rd.

 

Proof, I'm not rigid in my beliefs and opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

I just read that Cora may in fact have JD hitting 3rd in the lineup. Is it possible that regardless of what the statistical evidence shows, that Alex Cora might know something about lineups and the game in general than preparers of the analytics?

[Bellhorn04]

I just read that Cora may in fact have JD hitting 3rd in the lineup. Is it possible that regardless of what the statistical evidence shows, that Alex Cora might know something about lineups and the game in general than preparers of the analytics?

 

If Cora has JD hit 3rd it'll be a little surprising. JD seems like the perfect 4 hitter. But we'll see.

[cp176]

If Cora has JD hit 3rd it'll be a little surprising. JD seems like the perfect 4 hitter. But we'll see.

 

Perhaps he thinks that he is our 5th best hitter or maybe he thinks that lineup construction isn't the big deal it is being made out to be here or maybe he just believes that this game is better suited to a blend of analytical info and old school concepts or maybe he is just his own man and will not be baffled by anyone's tiresome ********.

[cp176]

If Cora has JD hit 3rd it'll be a little surprising. JD seems like the perfect 4 hitter. But we'll see.

 

 

Bell - did you read the article I read? It was interesting.

[mvp 78]

Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post

If I could jump in here, based on what Kimmi has said in the past, you should probably have your 5th-best hitter in the #3 spot.

 

My man.

 

That's why I liked the idea of HRam batting 3rd.

 

1. Beni

2. Betts (our best hitter)

3. HRam (our 5th best hitter-maybe)

4. JD (our best power guy)

5. Devers

6. Nunez

7. Bogey

8. JBJ

9. Vaz

 

But HRam is probably like the 7th or 8th best hitter on the club.

[cp176]

But HRam is probably like the 7th or 8th best hitter on the club.

 

This guy Cora just doesn't get it!!! I want some guy coaching this team who can teach our guys how to impact the ball plus pay extra attention to the Talksox Forum Board. lol

[Bellhorn04]

Bell - did you read the article I read? It was interesting.

 

Which article?

[moonslav59]

But HRam is probably like the 7th or 8th best hitter on the club.

 

Maybe, if you go by just 2017. Even then, he had our 5th best OPS, and Pedey starts the year on the DL. JD is better, so that keeps HRam at about 5th best by OPS.

 

I'm much more hopeful that surgery actually helps a player get better than he was while playing hurt.

 

HRam was clearly affected by his shoulder injury last year. They avoided playing him at 1B, and he did horrible vs LHPs, which is usually his strong area. My guess is, the shoulder really hurt his swing vs lefties.

 

He was .069 below his career OPS vs RHPs.

 

He was .218 below his career OPS vs LHPs.

 

Sox hitters with 200+ PAs vs RHPs last year:

.813 Beni

.784 Moreland (will be on the bench)

.771 Betts

.769 HRam

.739 Bogey

.732 Vaz

.729 Pedey

.713 JBJ

.612 Leon

 

Look, I get the idea that HRam might suck this year, but I'm going with him until he shows me he does... or not.

[cp176]

Which article?

 

On the official Red Sox website

[moonslav59]

Sox OPS leaders from 2016-2017 (250+ PAs)

 

1.021 Papi

.851 Betts

.811 HRam

.799 Pedey

.785 Beni

.784 JBJ

.776 Bogey

.773 Young

.769 Moreland

.741 Leon

.726 Shaw

.683 Vaz

.653 Holt

 

(170-250 PAs)

.892 Nunez

.819 Devers

.613 Rutledge

.577 A Hill

.573 Marrero

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

2016-2018 (which includes HRam's horrific 2016 season) 350+ PAs

 

.987 Papi

.842 Betts

.799 Pedey

.793 JBJ

.785 HRam

.785 Beni

.776 Bogey

.773 Young

.769 Moreland

.754 Shaw

.713 Swihart

.693 Napoli

.691 Holt

.688 Leon

.683 Vaz

.646 Pablo

[sk7326]

As Kimmi notes - differences in lineup construction don't matter a whole lot ... but that is different than saying they don't matter at all. Even a dozen runs over the season can help - and every edge counts in short series. The question really is how can you balance the two goals of getting your best hitters more plate appearances, while ALSO getting your best hitters the most number of RBI opportunities. I think in that vein something like a Betts-Benintendi-Martinez makes sense for your top 3 (get them as many PAs as possible), while putting Nunez and Bradley 8-9, to give them some additional RBI chances.

 

Yeah you are putting your weakest hitter at #7, but I do think the catcher position could end up being perfectly okay there. Vasquez showed last year he can hit well enough for a catcher, and Swihart certainly looks like he could hit well enough for anybody.

[Emp9]

One could argue JD, not Betts (at least not yet) is our Best Hitter. So by some posters’ logic, shouldn’t JD lead-off?

 

*Note: I’m not actually advocating JD be our Lead-off hitter.

[sk7326]

One could argue JD, not Betts (at least not yet) is our Best Hitter. So by some posters’ logic, shouldn’t JD lead-off?

 

*Note: I’m not actually advocating JD be our Lead-off hitter.

 

I think you absolutely can argue batting him 2nd.

[Emp9]

I think you absolutely can argue batting him 2nd.

 

Ahh, but by batting him 2nd is still providing him with less opportunities as opposed to batting him 1st, right? Less PAs, less production, less HRs, etc... (by that logic).

[Bellhorn04]

Ahh, but by batting him 2nd is still providing him with less opportunities as opposed to batting him 1st, right? Less PAs, less production, less HRs, etc... (by that logic).

 

Batting 2nd supposedly yields the optimum combination of plate appearances and RBI opportunities.

[moonslav59]

Batting 2nd supposedly yields the optimum combination of plate appearances and RBI opportunities.

 

That's why I'm fine with Betts up 2nd.

[Emp9]

Batting 2nd supposedly yields the optimum combination of plate appearances and RBI opportunities.

 

Anywhere but 1st is still less opportunities. Forget about 2nd, because that’s not really the ( albeit, faux ) argument. The issue here for me, is when JD wasn’t signed yet, Betts was our best hitter. Cora even admitted as much. Yet Cora’s (and some on here) opinion was that sense Betts was our best hitter, batting him leadoff was the best way to utilize him MAINLY due to giving him the most plate appearances. Most PAs was their reasoning. That’s their argument, not mine. So NOW, w/ JD on board, and our best hitter, i’m just curious to what has changed. That’s all.

[Bellhorn04]

Anywhere but 1st is still less opportunities. Forget about 2nd, because that’s not really the ( albeit, faux ) argument. The issue here for me, is when JD wasn’t signed yet, Betts was our best hitter. Cora even admitted as much. Yet Cora’s (and some on here) opinion was that sense Betts was our best hitter, batting him leadoff was the best way to utilize him MAINLY due to giving him the most plate appearances. Most PAs was their reasoning. That’s their argument, not mine. So NOW, w/ JD on board, and our best hitter, i’m just curious to what has changed. That’s all.

 

I think part of the benefit of Betts leading off is his speed, too.

 

But yes, this stuff about the lineup can all get a bit muddled, that's for sure.

[mvp 78]

Maybe, if you go by just 2017. Even then, he had our 5th best OPS, and Pedey starts the year on the DL. JD is better, so that keeps HRam at about 5th best by OPS.

 

I'm much more hopeful that surgery actually helps a player get better than he was while playing hurt.

 

HRam was clearly affected by his shoulder injury last year. They avoided playing him at 1B, and he did horrible vs LHPs, which is usually his strong area. My guess is, the shoulder really hurt his swing vs lefties.

 

He was .069 below his career OPS vs RHPs.

 

He was .218 below his career OPS vs LHPs.

 

Sox hitters with 200+ PAs vs RHPs last year:

.813 Beni

.784 Moreland (will be on the bench)

.771 Betts

.769 HRam

.739 Bogey

.732 Vaz

.729 Pedey

.713 JBJ

.612 Leon

 

Look, I get the idea that HRam might suck this year, but I'm going with him until he shows me he does... or not.

 

When you state 200+ PA's, it automatically rules out Nunez and Devers who are better offensive options than Hanley.