A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[moonslav59]

Catcher is actually one of the places we need the least amount of help

 

Vasquez is just fine. He takes good at-bats, seems capable of being a consistent .270 sort of hitter - and given his defense that is terrific. The power is limited, and offense will never be why you pay him ... but I am comfortable that he is a long term starter for any number of teams, including this one.

 

We could possibly upgrade at backup catcher - but again, for a backup, Leon is about as good as you will probably get. Now in 2018 maybe try to get it to more like 120 starts for Vasquez and it'll be okay.

 

I totally agree. I'd let Leon be Sale's caddy and start Vaz about 4 out of every 5 games.

[Spudboy]

Moving Leon or changing the catcher tandem is just an exercise in how to f***-up a good thing.

 

That's the type of thing a wife or girlfriend would do. Their hair is really nice and they ask you what you think. "It looks really nice honey".

 

After disappearing into the bathroom for 20 minutes she comes out looking like she just woke up. "How is my hair now?" "It looks fine darling."

 

She knows it looks like s*** and because you said it is now only "fine" somehow you are to blame.

 

The moral here is leave well enough alone.

 

And never tell your woman that she looks "fine".

[Larry Cook]

I totally agree. I'd let Leon be Sale's caddy and start Vaz about 4 out of every 5 games.

 

Does Leon work better with Rodriguez?

[oldtimer]

Honestly, I think Devers at 1B next year makes the most sense for our chances in 2018 and 2019. It might not be whats best for him or the Sox long term goals, but for the immediate future, I'm not sure we can withstand his "learning curve" on defense. That might mean signing Moustakas, instead of JD- who may want to play our west anyways or command too much salary and years for a player his age and with his lack of seasons without injuries.

 

Sign Moustakas, move Devers to 1B, HRam to DH and then maybe try trading JBJ and prospects for Stanton. Again, this plan would, by itself, put us over the second level or very close, so there'd be no room for a SP'er and back-up 2Bman

 

That makes some sense to me. Devers might be our 1st baseman of the future. Hanley could be DH unless he can't manage that many games. If need be we can use a utility hitter if his shoulders prove to be cranky.

 

Put the money in at third for a good fielding/ good hitting Moustakas. I like it.

 

Trade JBJ plus prospects and get an outfielder like Ozuna or Stanton.

 

That leaves the potential mess at 2nd and the need for 1 SP. Possibly Chavis is ready to play 2nd? Cheap solution. Trouble is no money for a SP. Could Otani be that SP?

 

Dig into our reserves for utility players. Travis, Brannen, Lin, Hernandez, Swihart and Marrero.

 

We need a couple of low cost solutions.

[Larry Cook]

I really wonder what swihart is now after two injury plagued seasons.

 

Three years ago, he was on my untouchable list. Had a beautiful swing and made lots of hard contact.

 

Now he is probably a double a player stuck in triple a.

[a700hitter]

I really wonder what swihart is now after two injury plagued seasons.

 

Three years ago, he was on my untouchable list. Had a beautiful swing and made lots of hard contact.

 

Now he is probably a double a player stuck in triple a.

He is a wasted asset. He was never going to be a good defensive catcher and that is where his value lied. Once the Red Sox decided to go with Vasquez as the future catcher, they should have maximized Swihart's value by trading him. It's too lat for that.

[moonslav59]

He is a wasted asset. He was never going to be a good defensive catcher and that is where his value lied. Once the Red Sox decided to go with Vasquez as the future catcher, they should have maximized Swihart's value by trading him. It's too lat for that.

 

Totally agree, and I said it back then, too.

 

Catchers are always in such high demand. We could have gotten something useful.

 

Now, he's near valueless, so we might as well hang on and pray.

[Bellhorn04]

Totally agree, and I said it back then, too.

 

Catchers are always in such high demand. We could have gotten something useful.

 

Now, he's near valueless, so we might as well hang on and pray.

 

So when did you think was the exact perfect time to trade Swihart? Please be as specific as possible with the year and time of year.

[notin]

I would agree. There was no really obvious time to deal Swihart. Especially because Vazquez missed a season with TJ surgery. .. Edited October 21, 2017 by notin

[moonslav59]

So when did you think was the exact perfect time to trade Swihart? Please be as specific as possible with the year and time of year.

 

I said it many times before he was called up prematurely when Vaz was injured. Then, I said it after his year in the majors in 2015. I'm not trying to claim I was a genius. There were many of us who felt the same way- maybe 50-50 at the "old site". I always thought Vaz should and would win the job, and Swi would end up at another position, and since his value was higher as a catcher, we should trade him. So many teams are looking for a good catcher. His value elsewhere had to be higher than with us as a projected back-up catcher and 1Bman (which is where I felt he'd end up at the time).

 

'

[moonslav59]

I would agree. There was no really obvious time to deal Swihart. Especially because Vazquez missed a season with TJ surgery. ..

 

In hindsight, probably not, but many wanted him traded before the injury to Vaz, and after the injury, many felt he should be traded as soon as Vaz was deemed ready to go (March 2016?). He still had value when they sent him down. Though trades are hardly made in early April, they could have shopped him around starting then, instead of showing the world they gave up on him as a catcher.

 

In hindsight, the best time might have been right before the 2016 season, when management obviously felt Vaz was ready. That may or may not have been his peak value moment, but it was much higher then than before his position change in the minors and subsequent injury in LF.

[harmony]

Totally agree, and I said it back then, too.

 

Catchers are always in such high demand. We could have gotten something useful.

 

Now, he's near valueless, so we might as well hang on and pray.

I suspect other teams had some interest in Blake Swihart and that the Red Sox were open to trading the switch-hitting catcher.

 

The problem was (and perhaps still is) that other teams did not value Swihart as highly as the Red Sox did. Swihart was not the can’t-miss prospect some folks promoted.

[sk7326]

It's easy to say I told-you-so's about Swihart, but hard to believe any of them ... but the Red Sox had to see what they had after last year's injury. Swihart was always the team's highest ceiling option at catcher - and trading him after his injury would be a straight dump. It is a shame that things did not work out, but unless the Red Sox wanted to turn him into a cyborg, it's hard to really blame them.

[Bellhorn04]

I suspect other teams had some interest in Blake Swihart and that the Red Sox were open to trading the switch-hitting catcher.

 

The problem was (and perhaps still is) that other teams did not value Swihart as highly as the Red Sox did. Swihart was not the can’t-miss prospect some folks promoted.

 

He really wasn't. His defense was 'a work in progress' and he had good on-base skills but very little power.

[OH FOY]

Want to see Vazquez a second season on Offense. Way too short of a sample for me before I deem him a Offensive threat, in the Majors. His high in the Minors for HRS was 18, all the way back in 2011, never hit Double digits again. 27 years old now, like to see more power for Fenway. Career .266 Minor Leaguer, if he hits this in the Majors, I will be happy.

But I will wait on this next season.

Edited October 21, 2017 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

I suspect other teams had some interest in Blake Swihart and that the Red Sox were open to trading the switch-hitting catcher.

 

The problem was (and perhaps still is) that other teams did not value Swihart as highly as the Red Sox did. Swihart was not the can’t-miss prospect some folks promoted.

 

I'm sure other GMs had doubts about Swi's defense, and also did not have as high hopes for his offense as many Sox fans had, but he had a good CS% and looked decent in 2015. That was probably enough for just one Gm to bite.

[moonslav59]

Want to see Vazquez a second season on Offense. Way too short of a sample for me before I deem him a Offensive threat, in the Majors. His high in the Minors for HRS was 18, all the way back in 2011, never hit Double digits again. 27 years old now, like to see more power for Fenway. Career .266 Minor Leaguer, if he hits this in the Majors, I will be happy.

But I will wait on this next season.

 

I don't care about Vaz's offense. Just give me .675 or so.

[OH FOY]

I do. There is many Catchers in the Minors who are good Defensively. Difference is Offense. Teams will take the Offensive Catchers over just a Defensive one almost all the time. Tonight good example, McCann, even Sanchez, you see those Offensive Numbers they will have extreme patience with a Catchers Defense. Edited October 21, 2017 by OH FOY!

[harmony]

I'm sure other GMs had doubts about Swi's defense, and also did not have as high hopes for his offense as many Sox fans had, but he had a good CS% and looked decent in 2015. That was probably enough for just one Gm to bite.

I don’t doubt that a GM “bit” by making a viable offer that the Red Sox declined.

[Kimmi]

So when did you think was the exact perfect time to trade Swihart? Please be as specific as possible with the year and time of year.

 

That's the thing. There really wasn't a good time to trade Swihart until it was 'too late'.

 

Is it possible that he could play well enough to be a utility player for us? If given the reps, he could play 1B, 3B, LF, and be a valuable 3rd catcher option. My understanding is that he is playing behind the plate in the Dominican league.

[Kimmi]

I do. There is many Catchers in the Minors who are good Defensively. Difference is Offense. Teams will take the Offensive Catchers over just a Defensive one almost all the time. Tonight good example, McCann, even Sanchez, you see those Offensive Numbers they will have extreme patience with a Catchers Defense.

 

I am with Moon on this one. I don't care about a catcher's offense. I want the best defensive catcher possible behind the plate and let the rest of the line up take care of the offense. I would leave our catching tandem alone.

[OH FOY]

Old days yes, today nope. I'll take a Sanchez, deficiencies, on Defense and take his Offense. And really there is not going to be a great drop-off either. Otherwise they would never give him such important position. But the difference is how many games won on Offense. You would rather have Sanchez over Vazquez yes?

Also a Veteran Pitching staff, helps a lot. Next year will tell me a lot about Vazquez if he is #1 Catcher. I'll be able to gage him better.

Edited October 22, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Slasher9]

He is a wasted asset. He was never going to be a good defensive catcher and that is where his value lied. Once the Red Sox decided to go with Vasquez as the future catcher, they should have maximized Swihart's value by trading him. It's too lat for that.

 

Thanks DD

[Slasher9]

It's easy to say I told-you-so's about Swihart, but hard to believe any of them ...

 

Your right. The BDC boards are wiped from the net. But moon was saying to trade him. Many of us valued his offense over vaz.

[moonslav59]

I don’t doubt that a GM “bit” by making a viable offer that the Red Sox declined.

 

You're probably right.

 

Sox brass must have valued him more than the best offer made.

[a700hitter]

I suspect other teams had some interest in Blake Swihart and that the Red Sox were open to trading the switch-hitting catcher.

 

The problem was (and perhaps still is) that other teams did not value Swihart as highly as the Red Sox did. Swihart was not the can’t-miss prospect some folks promoted.

At one point it was reported that the White Sox had a high degree of interest in Swihart.

[moonslav59]

Your right. The BDC boards are wiped from the net. But moon was saying to trade him. Many of us valued his offense over vaz.

 

Thanks for the verification, slash, but I really wasn't trying for any glory on this. I've been wrong on these things too many times to gloat when I seemingly got one right.

 

I say "seemingly", because I never hear what the best offer was, and I might have said no to it.

 

 

[harmony]

At one point it was reported that the White Sox had a high degree of interest in Swihart.

The White Sox apparently weren’t interested enough in Blake Swihart to make an offer the Red Sox found sufficient.

[moonslav59]

The White Sox apparently weren’t interested enough in Blake Swihart to make an offer the Red Sox found sufficient.

 

We get it.

[harmony]

Two years ago Boston Globe columnist Pete Abraham assessed the trade value of each Red Sox player:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/09/red-sox-have-plenty-chips-for-trade-market/cnKAEYDanfm1eiZajyAv0N/story.html

Edited October 22, 2017 by harmony