2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[moonslav59]

Time is actually getting short. We are now at about the midpoint between Christmas Day and the start of spring training. And Christmas Day doesn't feel very long ago.

 

It shouldn't take months to sign your name on a contract.

 

Seriously, how long should negotiating an extension take?

 

Besides, negotiating during ST'ing is not a big no-no.

[notin]

Why is it so "disturbing?" There's months to go before opening day.

 

Maybe, DD knows he does not want to pay Pom what he is likely to get/want. Maybe his plan is to offer him a QO.

 

I seriously doubt DD is spending every waking moment trying to decide if he will up his offer to JD or not.

 

Its disturbing because he hasn't done anything.

 

It's one thing to have Martinez/Morrison held up by a slow market. But what is it about the market that's preventing him from talking to his own players?

[Kimmi]

At some point you do want the player to be happy with his contract. ..

 

Yes you do. You also want the player to be reasonable with his expectations.

[Kimmi]

Both Kimmi and Moon simply fails to acknowledge the fact that coming on heels of two last place finishes, DD did what he felt necessary to turn the club around. He was hired to get the f*** out of last place. Maybe he overpaid, so what?

 

We are now in a different place. DD has not rushed to to sign JD at any cost. Hell, he maybe willing to go with what he's got. He has entire staring position players back with the promise of many of them might perform better in 2018.

 

if you are going to blame anyone for DD's overpay his first year, blame it on the previous management. Hell they get all the credit for last two years, they should also get the blame for putting DD in a difficult situation.

 

Thanks Ben!

 

The winning team was already 90% in place when Dombrowski came to this organization. Dombrowski could have found less expensive ways, in terms of money and prospects, to put together the other 10%.

[notin]

Yes you do. You also want the player to be reasonable with his expectations.

 

The Sox can control neither of those, but they can influence the first one...

[Kimmi]

Players sign contracts they're not happy with all the time, simply because it's the best offer.

 

If Martinez was looking for $200mill and his offers top out at $125mill, he isn't going too not sign, and it doesn't make him happy. Right now the talk ia the red sox are "bidding against themselves". Is that what's going on? Our are they closing the gap in an effort to appease Martinez as much as possible?

 

If Martinez is looking for $200 mil, then that is the fault of Boras for putting that idea into his head.

 

That said, I do agree with you that JD is responsible for what's going on as well. Boras will ultimately do what JD tells him to do.

[Spudboy]

I truly prefer players who really want to be here.

 

I wonder how that can be determined. Seriously.

 

Guys like Mike Napoli don't just stroll into town everyday.

 

When a new player is introduced at Fenway he almost always feeds us the line that he is honored to be playing for such a great franchise as the Red Sox and that he is excited to play before such great fans.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Occasionally a player may really want to sign with the Sox for reasons other than money. Those guys are rare.

[Kimmi]

And if this is the case let JD sit out the year or go play in Japan for all I care.

 

Enough with the stupid contracts.

 

I have to believe that JD and the other unsigned players have to be getting antsy. Of course none of us really know what's going on, but if I were JD, I'd jump on that $125 mil offer.

[a700hitter]

I have to believe that JD and the other unsigned players have to be getting antsy. Of course none of us really know what's going on, but if I were JD, I'd jump on that $125 mil offer.

If that $125 million offer gets pulled, he will want to kill Boras.

[Spudboy]

Yup.

 

You are right Moon.

 

But this is frustrating.

 

And lulz on the last line.

[Spudboy]

thank you Notin - I do understand that though believe it or not. The longer these negotiations drag on the less appeal imo Martinez will have to the real Red Sox fan. It will make no difference how well he hits either. He has to make the right choice for him and his family but he has to live with that choice as well. I think that I represent a fair number of like minded fans and I'm really ready to move away from this guy regardless of all the good things I have read about him. He has been given 125 million reasons perhaps to sign with us. If that isn't enough, so be it let him play for less in some other loser hell hole. Maybe the Mariners (Harmony) can swoop in and pony up the dough. See ya.

 

I agree.

 

Though I tend to go with the idea of waiting just until they can't wait any longer.

 

Then f***-em.

[Kimmi]

Good point about DD contradicting himself by now expressing comfort with the 2018 Red Sox offense after saying "I didn't supply the players that would give us enough runs" following last season.

 

Personally, I am comfortable going into the season with what we have offensively.

 

As far as Dombrowski goes, however, I would still be highly surprised if he does not add a significant bat before the start of the season. I still believe JD is coming to Boston.

[Kimmi]

I truly prefer players who really want to be here.

 

This is the truth.

 

This is one thing I like about Pedroia so much.

[Bellhorn04]

It shouldn't take months to sign your name on a contract.

 

Seriously, how long should negotiating an extension take?

 

Besides, negotiating during ST'ing is not a big no-no.

 

My mistake, I missed that you were just talking about Pomeranz.

[Kimmi]

From taht article

Drellich also tweets that although left-hander Drew Pomeranz is open to a long-term extension with the Red Sox, the two sides have not discussed one to date. The 29-year-old southpaw made 32 starts for Boston in 2017, pitching 173 2/3 innings of 3.32 ERA baseball. He’s set to become a free agent at the end of the season.

 

 

I think this is what is the most frustrating. Let the Martinez negotiations drag out as long as it takes one way or the other. But that this whole thing has put EVERYTHING else on hold? I'm beginning to think that not only can DD not multitask, he can't even task all that well...

 

LOL He's no Theo, that's for sure.

 

But you hit the nail on the head. Until we know what's happening with JD, Dombrowski really can't or won't make any other moves, including possible extensions to our current players. The waiting is holding the Red Sox hostage, which is what irks me about it.

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks Ben!

 

The winning team was already 90% in place when Dombrowski came to this organization. Dombrowski could have found less expensive ways, in terms of money and prospects, to put together the other 10%.

 

90% is a bit of an overstatement when you look at the pitching staff Ben left behind. It was awful.

[Kimmi]

OTOH I find it hard to believe Dombrowski is just sitting at his desk surfing the internet all day.

 

Of course he's not just sitting around all day, but he really can't know what to do until he knows what JD is going to do.

[Kimmi]

Why is it so "disturbing?" There's months to go before opening day.

 

Maybe, DD knows he does not want to pay Pom what he is likely to get/want. Maybe his plan is to offer him a QO.

 

I seriously doubt DD is spending every waking moment trying to decide if he will up his offer to JD or not.

 

Maybe he doesn't know what he can realistically offer Pom until he knows whether he's going to pay JD $125 or not?

[Kimmi]

Time is actually getting short. We are now at about the midpoint between Christmas Day and the start of spring training. And Christmas Day doesn't feel very long ago.

 

Truck Day is about two weeks away!!!

[Kimmi]

The Sox can control neither of those, but they can influence the first one...

 

They can. Are you suggesting that the Sox increase their offer to JD to make him happy, even if there are no other offers?

[Spudboy]

90% is a bit of an overstatement when you look at the pitching staff Ben left behind. It was awful.

 

I think that was a big deal but for some reason it is not spoken about enough.

 

The ten percent includes Price, Sale, and Kimbrel.

 

Not sure who else could provide that kind of talent and performance at a significantly lower price.

[Kimmi]

I wonder how that can be determined. Seriously.

 

Guys like Mike Napoli don't just stroll into town everyday.

 

When a new player is introduced at Fenway he almost always feeds us the line that he is honored to be playing for such a great franchise as the Red Sox and that he is excited to play before such great fans.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Occasionally a player may really want to sign with the Sox for reasons other than money. Those guys are rare.

 

They are very rare, but if a player is willing to leave some money on the table to play for a specific team, I think that's a pretty good indication that he wants to play for that team.

[Spudboy]

They are very rare, but if a player is willing to leave some money on the table to play for a specific team, I think that's a pretty good indication that he wants to play for that team.

 

Yes that is certainly true. I really doubt that happens often.

[Kimmi]

90% is a bit of an overstatement when you look at the pitching staff Ben left behind. It was awful.

 

90% may be a bit of an overstatement, but Dombrowski only added Price to the rotation before the 2016 season, then Pom midseason. The rest of the rotation was already in place. My point stands.

[moonslav59]

Maybe he doesn't know what he can realistically offer Pom until he knows whether he's going to pay JD $125 or not?

 

Is paying JD $135M/5 not $125M/5 going to make a difference in the offer to Pom?

 

My guess is DD is not interested in a Pom extension. If Pom repeats 2017, he offers him a QO and it's win-win no matter what pom decides. If Pom struggles, then he did the right thing by no extending him now. I know it's more complicated than this, but even with all the gray area in between, extending Pom is not a no brainer.

[cp176]

hey I've been calling for the Sox to move on for a week now. I think of you as late to the game there.

 

Come with me to the LoMo Train.

 

toot toot Notin toot toot - all aboard!

[oldtimer]

If we are willing to pay him $125M/5, and we walk away and let him settle for less, what have we gained?

 

The only danger is losing out on our secondary options by waiting. Since nobody else is signing, I don't see the urgency in forcing the issue. That risks a lose-lose situation.

 

I know it's frustrating for us fans to wait and wait, and I'd be fine with moving on from JD by maybe signing Darvish and Nunez, but if JD is truly the number one option, I'm not giving up just because Boras is looking for more at this moment.

 

How long will it be before our secondary options commit to other teams which would leave us with a selection of players that wouldn't help that much. That is the real danger, meanwhile JD may well decide to go with another team. The players union and major league baseball need to make adjustments since this season is proving to be one in which many FAs are going to be left taking contracts well below thier projected value.

[Hitch]

An excellent question! Lay an answer on him Hitch. You know what mine might be due to the fact that I am a card carrying capitalist.

 

Haha I'm not against capitalism as a whole. It's brought billions out of poverty and brought up the poverty line in the worst areas of the world, as a direct circumstance of that. Not to be sniffed at, at all. But I also think it has flaws that has led to a widening in the parity of wages and living conditions within the in the modern world. The gap between have and have nots is getting worse, which I very much don't like. Same with all the political ideas. Socialism has many problems with it's ideas but I very much like one of it's main staples which is every person in the country should get free health care and education. And if life deals you a real s*** few months and your life falls apart the state will help you. My personal hope/belief is that one day (hopefully soonish) our political ideas will evolve into something better than everything we have managed to come up with, up to this point.

 

Anyway stepping aside from any potential politics again, I think it's a really interesting discussion Baseball wise.

 

On one hand I very much like that there is a salary cap and that revenue is shared. I am utterly of the belief that sport should be as fair as possible and not come down to who has the biggest pockets. I know that's not often the case, though. So the salary cap does stop teams from just outbidding all the smaller outfits and turning it into a battle for the ring for the same few organisations every year. That said, there is obviously flaws in this approach too. As has been pointed out, I think some owners are getting away with murder and not fielding anything like the team they could and cheating everyone. I'm not sure what we should do about it, but it definitely needs looking at. 100% agree with that.

 

The one thing that can't change is the revenue sharing. That needs to stay. A different sport but an example for you: Soccer in Spain, Barcelona and Real Madrid are the two biggest teams by a mile. They have been for years. A long time ago, seeing as they had so much power, they got together and made the Spanish league give them 80% of the TV rights money because they argued that most people only want to watch them. At the time there was a European super league being talked about and they were petrified of losing their two biggest teams to a super league and they gave in. Now no other team has a chance of winning the league. Except for the odd unusual surprise one of them win it every single year. There are 20 teams in the league and only 2 of them ever have a chance of winning the whole thing. 10% of the league gets 80% of the money. That's tragic to me.

 

I really don't want baseball to go down a route where the same teams dominate year in year out. But I do agree that the system they have in place now is far from perfect, too.

[harmony]

I have to believe that JD and the other unsigned players have to be getting antsy. Of course none of us really know what's going on, but if I were JD, I'd jump on that $125 mil offer.

What if J.D. Martinez has two or three offers of $125 million? Should he wait for a bidder to up its offer?

[moonslav59]

How long will it be before our secondary options commit to other teams which would leave us with a selection of players that wouldn't help that much. That is the real danger, meanwhile JD may well decide to go with another team. The players union and major league baseball need to make adjustments since this season is proving to be one in which many FAs are going to be left taking contracts well below thier projected value.

 

I would hope that DD has reached out to secondary option players' agents and told them to check in before signing elsewhere. The JD hold up might be the reason nobody else has signed, as they are all waiting in hopes that Boston might join in their bidding once they pass or miss out on JD.

 

Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I do feel like there should be no sense of urgency until the secondary options are ready to sign. My hope is DD is on top of things and will issue an ultimatum to JD once his other options are getting ready to go away.