2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[a700hitter]

'Giancarlo Stanton trade talks between the Red Sox and the Marlins “may be heating up,” according to a report in Saturday's Miami Herald. “They're definitely in play,” said the major-league source about the Red Sox, according to the newspaper.'

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2017/11/report_red_sox_stanton_talks_may_be_heating_up

I am trying to not get excited.

[harmony]

'Giancarlo Stanton trade talks between the Red Sox and the Marlins “may be heating up,” according to a report in Saturday's Miami Herald. “They're definitely in play,” said the major-league source about the Red Sox, according to the newspaper.'

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2017/11/report_red_sox_stanton_talks_may_be_heating_up

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/fish-bytes/article184112096.html

[harmony]

Maybe it was deliberate as he is a nonentity.

A deliberate misstatement of fact undercuts credibility more than a negligent misstatement of fact.

 

The issue may be whether there was any credibility to be undercut.

[a700hitter]

A deliberate misstatement of fact undercuts credibility more than a negligent misstatement of fact.

 

The issue may be whether there was any credibility to be undercut.

Misstatement of fact? LOL!! Buzz off

[Kimmi]

I agree. It's not as though Henry's going to demand that Sox follow, say Marlins financial game plan and cut back on player salaries. We will always be one of big spenders. We do have some salaries coming off in two years. Pablo, Hanley and Porcello makes $60M together. That will surely pay for two big free agents, maybe one this year and another one next year. We may need to plug holes with $5-$7M type players. You can only have so many $30M plus guys.

 

We will always be one of the big spenders, but there is still a limit to how much Henry will spend. Teams can no longer afford to just sign expensive free agent after expensive free agent. The Yankees are not even doing that anymore. The penalties are too stiff. Having a strong farm system is a priority more now than in the past.

[Kimmi]

Major League games played career

Benintendi 185

JBJ 527

Screw WAR Trading Benni is going to big mistake, Theo and his team were always good Talent evaluators, if they want him, it means keep him.

 

Trading Beni would be a huge mistake, IMO, even if it is for Stanton.

[Kimmi]

They teally don't need one. They were still one of the top scoring teams without one. That's just the quick easy fix.

 

Nine teams in the AL hit more home runs than Boston and still scored fewer runs. Home runs are exciting and fun, but any upgrade over Mitch Moreland will be an improvement.

 

But I hope it isn't Hosmer. Carlos Santana? Yes. Hosmer? No...

 

Home runs are sexy. Just like stolen bases. Both are overrated.

 

But no worries to the home run loving crowd. Dombrowski will get us a bit bat.

[Kimmi]

• In a lengthy piece for the Providence Journal, Tim Britton urges against many reactionary moves suggested by Red Sox fans. The body of the article includes 24 fan suggestions for Dave Dombrowski that Britton sought out on Twitter. Among them are cases for why Boston shouldn’t trade for Giancarlo Stanton, why signing Eric Hosmer doesn’t make sense, and why they should neither shop David Price nor move him to the bullpen permanently. While many such suggestions from fans have obvious flaws in logic, Britton’s piece is well worth a read for his detailed perspective on each subject.
  

Hey Tom,

 

Who gives a hoot what you think. It is hard for me to believe that you draw a paycheck for writing this garbage. Do some journalistic work. Make some phone calls. visit Fenway. Get some real information about the plans for 2018. If you are just going to print your unsourced opinions, come here to TalkSox and duel it out with Moonslav and others, and let a real reporter/sportswriter have your job. We message board types look to print media for hard news to discuss, not weak-ass opinion.

 

Oh and btw Tom, you are wrong about getting Stanton. He would be a huge get.

 

I thought Britton makes some very good points.

 

Good read.

[Kimmi]

'Giancarlo Stanton trade talks between the Red Sox and the Marlins “may be heating up,” according to a report in Saturday's Miami Herald. “They're definitely in play,” said the major-league source about the Red Sox, according to the newspaper.'

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2017/11/report_red_sox_stanton_talks_may_be_heating_up

 

Oh geez. Please, no.

[jacksonianmarch]

$25M a year is much less than Harper will get on the open market.

 

I get the idea of going under the limit is a priority, and it will be easier to do so this year than next.

 

I'll ask you this, is there any way that you can get Stanton and stay under the limit?

 

1) The Marlins might pay part of his salary, if they can get a better return (which no team can do better than the Yanks)

 

$22M Ellsbury

$13M headley

$13M Gardner

$12.5M Robertson

$8.5M S Castro

 

I'm thinking the Yanks are at least considering "finding a way" to do both: get Stanton and reset the tax.

 

2) Can you cut salary elsewhere? (Trade and eat part of vet contracts you hold now.)

 

 

We have $50 mil to play with. We can get Stanton, but why? Yes, Harper will cost more, but he’s also younger and better, especially for Yankee Stadium. Plus, if we re-set, Harper will only cost his contract rather than 50-90% more than his contract.

[a700hitter]

I thought Britton makes some very good points.

 

Good read.

Excellent read for a message board. Not a single piece of news in the column. Not journalism.

[moonslav59]

We have $50 mil to play with. We can get Stanton, but why? Yes, Harper will cost more, but he’s also younger and better, especially for Yankee Stadium. Plus, if we re-set, Harper will only cost his contract rather than 50-90% more than his contract.

,

Year one, yes, once you reset, but the tax on Stanton's $25M luxury cost will be less over the length of the deal.

 

My point was that if the Yanks can get Stanton and reset, I think they'll kick the tires.

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s possible, but I honestly think they have Harper on the mind

[Bellhorn04]

Home runs are sexy. Just like stolen bases. Both are overrated.

 

But no worries to the home run loving crowd. Dombrowski will get us a bit bat.

 

Home runs are overrated, I don't disagree with that.

 

But Stanton's WAR is for real, isn't it?

[OH FOY]

Lets put a hypothetical, say no JBJ, and we had Stanton in Left Field, and Benni in CF, or Mookie this year. Would you think 42 more HRS would have helped the team? 5 or 10 overrated, 42 I don't think so.

Unless they are 42 Solo Shots, haha.

Bradley had 17, Stanton 59. Not enough Defense for runs saved, vs. the Offense Stanton brings.

Edited November 12, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

Lets put a hypothetical, say no JBJ, and we had Stanton in Left Field, and Benni in CF, or Mookie this year. Would you think 42 more HRS would have helped the team? 5 or 10 overrated, 42 I don't think so.

 

If WAR means anything, Stanton instead of JBJ would have meant an additional 4-5 wins in 2017. But that's just one season of course. In 2016 it would have been a much different story.

[OH FOY]

Agree, about different seasons, I don't go by WAR. Never have. I cant see 42+ HRS, a difference in only 5-6 wins. You have to go by games played, at the moment of playing. WAR sounds too generalization, and lazy to me.

Reason I'm not a WAR person is that Outs in Baseball produces runs. And that what Baseball is really all about, Runs.

WAR doesn't give me the situation.

Quick situation for me, that would never show up in WAR...

Runner at third and 1st 1 out, tie game....Batter hits it to SS, but busts his ass to 1st and beats it out, Run Scores, win that game by 1 run. Does that show? Its a Fielders Choice, Outs were made. Yet you won.

Edited November 12, 2017 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

When you swing the bat 59 times in a season and drive yourself in plus anyone who happens to be on in front of you, then you’re creating wins. Let’s be honest. The guy is a monster.

[Bellhorn04]

When you swing the bat 59 times in a season and drive yourself in plus anyone who happens to be on in front of you, then you’re creating wins. Let’s be honest. The guy is a monster.

 

I try not to be over-influenced by the home runs. Too many balls were flying out of parks this year. But Stanton seems like a legit .900-950 OPS guy.

[Jack Flap]

Home runs may or may not be overrated, but we don't win in 04, 07, or 13 without the bat of David Ortiz (or Manny in 04/07), and the lack of a similar threat in our lineup was sorely felt for much of this season and left us pretty clearly a class below the Astros, Guardians, and Yankees in the AL. That doesn't mean you go out and do something stupid just to add home runs, but seeking an upgrade in the power department makes all the sense in the world, IMO.

[notin]

Lets put a hypothetical, say no JBJ, and we had Stanton in Left Field, and Benni in CF, or Mookie this year. Would you think 42 more HRS would have helped the team? 5 or 10 overrated, 42 I don't think so.

Unless they are 42 Solo Shots, haha.

Bradley had 17, Stanton 59. Not enough Defense for runs saved, vs. the Offense Stanton brings.

 

Based on what?

 

Bradley makes multiple plays every game. Stanton homers one more time once every 4 games.

 

How many runs did Hanley cost the Sox in LF in 2015?

[notin]

Home runs may or may not be overrated, but we don't win in 04, 07, or 13 without the bat of David Ortiz (or Manny in 04/07), and the lack of a similar threat in our lineup was sorely felt for much of this season and left us pretty clearly a class below the Astros, Guardians, and Yankees in the AL. That doesn't mean you go out and do something stupid just to add home runs, but seeking an upgrade in the power department makes all the sense in the world, IMO.

 

If its an overall improvement, yes you do it. But why is it Sox fans only look at 3 out of 115 World Series as the "How to" for team building?

 

Plent of teams have won a WS without a legitimate big home run bat like Ortiz, Manny or Stanton.

 

That said, I prefer Stanton to Martinez...

[Bellhorn04]

If its an overall improvement, yes you do it. But why is it Sox fans only look at 3 out of 115 World Series as the "How to" for team building?

 

Plenty of teams have won a WS without a legitimate big home run bat like Ortiz, Manny or Stanton.

 

How many out of 115?

[OH FOY]

Mookie in CF or Benni, and add Stanton in LF. I never said nothing about Hanley. Stanton is an Outfielder. You think he's that much of a Defensive liability?

[notin]

Mookie in CF or Benni, and add Stanton in LF. I never said nothing about Hanley. Stanton is an Outfielder. You think he's that much of a Defensive liability?

 

Hanley is an example of how bad outfield defense can impact a game/season.

 

While Stanton isn't that bad, is the drop off from Bradley to Stanton a similar magnitude?

[notin]

How many out of 115?

 

Look at all of 'em!!!

 

Although technically I think it's only 113.

[Jack Flap]

Jon Morosi‏ @jonmorosi

#SFGiants have interest in trading for Jackie Bradley Jr., among many outfield options they are currently considering, source says. @MLBNetwork @MLB

[sk7326]

Home runs are overrated, I don't disagree with that.

 

But Stanton's WAR is for real, isn't it?

 

Oh it is. You have to be comfortable with his injury history. Since one of those injuries was getting hit in the face - it might not be a huh-yooge deal.

 

The way the market seems to be shaping up - he is gettable. There is basically a sliding scale of prospect quality vs taking on money ... where the Red Sox can possibly find a sweet spot. They probably don't have the prospect heft to make the Marlins take a lot of the contract. But if they take the contract - that might not matter.

[sk7326]

Lets put a hypothetical, say no JBJ, and we had Stanton in Left Field, and Benni in CF, or Mookie this year. Would you think 42 more HRS would have helped the team? 5 or 10 overrated, 42 I don't think so.

Unless they are 42 Solo Shots, haha.

Bradley had 17, Stanton 59. Not enough Defense for runs saved, vs. the Offense Stanton brings.

 

42 HRs would have helped given the team's advanced on-base skills. Could a Stanton-Betts-Benintendi OF be an improvement total packagewise over Benintendi-Bradley-Betts? Sure.

[sk7326]

If WAR means anything, Stanton instead of JBJ would have meant an additional 4-5 wins in 2017. But that's just one season of course. In 2016 it would have been a much different story.

 

I think it is a fair measurement if you normalize for plate appearances. But of course that is part of the problem. At the same time, one of those long absences was a true freak accident.