Sale

[SoxHop]

Then, there's this....

 

Had Price pitched 2 days earlier, maybe that might have helped accelerate his build up to 60-80 pitches a little more quickly.

 

That's what I was thinking, but no idea if that would have any impact at all.

[moonslav59]

That's what I was thinking, but no idea if that would have any impact at all.

 

Yes, but my guess is his next outing will be pushed back a day or two, and then the next and the next....

[SoxHop]

Yes, but my guess is his next outing will be pushed back a day or two, and then the next and the next....

 

That's what I was guessing..

[notin]

You have to try and win the ALE. The Yankees lined up Severino to pitch three times to finish the year and he's already at a career high in IP. You have to go with your best and Sale is your best. You can rest him when you clinch, if you clinch

 

 

If they don't take the East, what the Yankees need in that case is for the Sox to clinch a little early, enabling Severino to pitch the WC game. Worst case scenario for them is Severino making all 3 regular season starts and still not winning the AL East...

[moonslav59]

The Yanks won't come close enough.

[Kimmi]

I wanted Sale to start that game against the Birds because I felt it significantly enhanced our chances to win the game. If we lost the game the Yanks would be only 2 back with 10 to go. I did not want them to have any more chance than they had already did. Don't f*** around. It's pretty simple...it's not North Korean rocket science.

 

We have a winner.

[Kimmi]

The Yanks won't come close enough.

 

The one game we gained on them last night looms very large.

 

In one sense, it kind of stinks that by clinching early enough, we are allowing the Yankees to use Severino in the wildcard game, as Notin pointed out. It would be nice if the Yankees had to go with the bad Tanaka in that game.

[mvp 78]

We’ll always have last Wednesday! He pitched so great. It’s obvious he didn’t need rest.

[oldtimer]

We’ll always have last Wednesday! He pitched so great. It’s obvious he didn’t need rest.

 

We are in a period where our pitching has to be nearly perfect. It was most of the road trip but now we are facing a hot team who killed two Yankee pitchers and have continued to do it to us.

[TylerD]

We are in a period where our pitching has to be nearly perfect. It was most of the road trip but now we are facing a hot team who killed two Yankee pitchers and have continued to do it to us.

 

This. And against an offensive power house team like Houston that terrifies me. We will need at least 5 runs every game to have a chance in that series. Our offense has been pretty stingy and comes back a lot in the 8th and 9th inning. Hopefully our pitchers give us a chance though. Sale outside of last Wednesday just looks burnt out to me. Very nerve wrecking come playoffs.

[moonslav59]

We’ll always have last Wednesday! He pitched so great. It’s obvious he didn’t need rest.

 

Obvious?

 

To me, it's obvious he did.

 

They could have given him 2 extra days then 2 extra days again and had him set up with 2 extra days for game 1 of the playoffs.

 

He's now looked bad in 6 of his last 12 starts. That's not the sale from earlier in the year. He has a long history of falling off in September. Nothing is for certain, but it appears he may get fatigued by the end of long seasons.

 

Getting one extra start may not always be the best strategy, if your burn your ace in the process. There's good chance he might have gone 2-0 instead of 2-1 by getting that extra start, which by the way would keep him from starting game 1 of the playoffs Oct 5th.

 

Nothing is obvious- my plan or JF's.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Obvious?

 

To me, it's obvious he did.

 

They could have given him 2 extra days then 2 extra days again and had him set up with 2 extra days for game 1 of the playoffs.

 

He's now looked bad in 6 of his last 12 starts. That's not the sale from earlier in the year. He has a long history of falling off in September. Nothing is for certain, but it appears he may get fatigued by the end of long seasons.

 

Getting one extra start may not always be the best strategy, if your burn your ace in the process. There's good chance he might have gone 2-0 instead of 2-1 by getting that extra start, which by the way would keep him from starting game 1 of the playoffs Oct 5th.

 

Nothing is obvious- my plan or JF's.

 

 

mvp was being sarcastic.

[Bellhorn04]

If Sale wears out in the second half of every season he's not much of an ace.

[SoxnCycles]

If Sale wears out in the second half of every season he's not much of an ace.

 

Exactly.

[SoxnCycles]

Obvious?

 

To me, it's obvious he did.

 

They could have given him 2 extra days then 2 extra days again and had him set up with 2 extra days for game 1 of the playoffs.

 

He's now looked bad in 6 of his last 12 starts. That's not the sale from earlier in the year. He has a long history of falling off in September. Nothing is for certain, but it appears he may get fatigued by the end of long seasons.

 

Getting one extra start may not always be the best strategy, if your burn your ace in the process. There's good chance he might have gone 2-0 instead of 2-1 by getting that extra start, which by the way would keep him from starting game 1 of the playoffs Oct 5th.

 

Nothing is obvious- my plan or JF's.

 

 

No one listened to you, so the Sox are screwed.

[SoxHop]

If Sale wears out in the second half of every season he's not much of an ace.

 

Well said....

[moonslav59]

If Sale wears out in the second half of every season he's not much of an ace.

 

Maybe he could be a year round ace with a little pro-activity.

[moonslav59]

No one listened to you, so the Sox are screwed.

 

Nobody will ever know if extra rest would have helped. We're not really even sure his late season struggles are fatigue-related, but common sense points to it being a strong possibility.

 

I don't know about you, but somewhere I read that when a person is fatigued, rest is a good thing.

 

Then, to top it off, not only do they NOT REST HIM, they let him go 8 innings, so he can chase some K record or goal.

 

It's insanity. That's the only thing "obvious" about JF's use of Sale over the past couple weeks or longer.

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody will ever know if extra rest would have helped. We're not really even sure his late season struggles are fatigue-related, but common sense points to it being a strong possibility.

 

I don't know about you, but somewhere I read that when a person is fatigued, rest is a good thing.

 

Then, to top it off, not only do they NOT REST HIM, they let him go 8 innings, so he can chase some K record or goal.

 

It's insanity. That's the only thing "obvious" about JF's use of Sale over the past couple weeks or longer.

 

If Sale is that badly fatigued after he reaches 150 innings or so that's just about an insurmountable problem.

 

He's at 214 innings right now. That's not excessive at all.

[SoxnCycles]

Nobody will ever know if extra rest would have helped. We're not really even sure his late season struggles are fatigue-related, but common sense points to it being a strong possibility.

 

I don't know about you, but somewhere I read that when a person is fatigued, rest is a good thing.

 

Then, to top it off, not only do they NOT REST HIM, they let him go 8 innings, so he can chase some K record or goal.

 

It's insanity. That's the only thing "obvious" about JF's use of Sale over the past couple weeks or longer.

 

 

Thanks, I didn't understand any of this the first dozen times you posted it.

[cp176]

Makes you wonder doesn't it - Why would Red Sox management not pay attention to this forum? We got answers to all problems.

[moonslav59]

If Sale is that badly fatigued after he reaches 150 innings or so that's just about an insurmountable problem.

 

He's at 214 innings right now. That's not excessive at all.

 

Maybe, if he gets to 150 innings in August, instead of July, things could be different.

[moonslav59]

Thanks, I didn't understand any of this the first dozen times you posted it.

 

That's why I posted it so many times.

 

Just for you!

 

[TylerD]

If Sale is that badly fatigued after he reaches 150 innings or so that's just about an insurmountable problem.

 

He's at 214 innings right now. That's not excessive at all.

 

I was posting in another thread that I think he is very under weight. To be 6'6 and weight 179 or whatever he is..... is horribly thin. Could be hard on his body going through all these innings being that thin. This isn't the first season he has started the first half as an All Star and the 2nd half has just been ok or slightly above average. He has had a fantastic year but I definitely think rest would have been a huge help to him. Of course this is my opinion as I know some don't agree. But the 8 innings last week and no rest till playoffs certainly won't help his pitching.

[OH FOY]

Sale faced Toronto 3 times going into last night, they weren't so ill prepared for his herky jerky motion. You face anybody enough during the season expect 1 bad game.

These are Professional Baseball hitters, they are pretty good. Especially when you face a Pitcher 3 times already.Don't always look at the Pitcher, look at your Opponent, they hit him, happens.

Edited September 27, 2017 by OH FOY!

[cp176]

Sale faced Toronto 3 times going into last night, they weren't so ill prepared for his herky jerky motion. You face anybody enough during the season expect 1 bad game.

 

I posted earlier that if he looked fatigued at all last night, I must have missed it. Pomeranz maybe - his velocity was noticeably down. Sale not so much. Looked like there were a number of pitches that just caught the k zone if they had been called strikes things might have gone differently. His stuff looked just as nasty last night to me as it has all season. He go hit and that is it. Happens .

[TylerD]

If Sale wears out in the second half of every season he's not much of an ace.

 

Be that as it may.... Sale is young and has a ton of years left in him but time will tell...... If this happens again next season maybe he isn't an "Ace" He was phenomenal the first half of the year and this could just be a one off that the second half of the season hasn't been near as good..... But I completely agree if a pitcher is tired by the 2nd half of the season and starts declining then he absolutely is not an Ace. Time will tell especially come playoffs.

[moonslav59]

I was posting in another thread that I think he is very under weight. To be 6'6 and weight 179 or whatever he is..... is horribly thin. Could be hard on his body going through all these innings being that thin. This isn't the first season he has started the first half as an All Star and the 2nd half has just been ok or slightly above average. He has had a fantastic year but I definitely think rest would have been a huge help to him. Of course this is my opinion as I know some don't agree. But the 8 innings last week and no rest till playoffs certainly won't help his pitching.

 

That could be part of the problem. It might not even be a problem. It could just be dumb luck (I don't want to use the word "random") that he has bad stretches bunched near the end of most seasons.

 

I'm not sure if getting him to put on some weight would mess him up, though.

[moonslav59]

I posted earlier that if he looked fatigued at all last night, I must have missed it. Pomeranz maybe - his velocity was noticeably down. Sale not so much. Looked like there were a number of pitches that just caught the k zone if they had been called strikes things might have gone differently. His stuff looked just as nasty last night to me as it has all season. He go hit and that is it. Happens .

 

Good point.

 

Look at his velocity charts. He's up from last year, but he's down from earlier in the year.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=10603&position=P&pitch=FA&data=pi

 

[OH FOY]

Familiarity that's all it is.