Red Sox Trade Deadline 2017 Thread

[notin]

Mbeki

As far as the idea of trading for someone with power, I just look at the guys who are in the field for us these days, and most are home grown. Funny how the reverse is true for the pitchers.

 

Our outfield is 100% homegrown with the exception of our substitute Young. In the infield, we have Pedroia, Bogie and now Lin and Marrero with Moreland being the exception. our backup at first is Travis and you could make a case that Hanley came up through our system although he has had a long journey. I believe Vazquez is home grown whild Leon we got through a trade.

 

With that, why not believe Devers will be our next solid field player that is home grown?

 

That's the long term plan, I'm guessing.

 

But Devers has no MLB experience and the success stories of Pedroia, Benintendi, etc won't make him contribute this year.

 

If the Sox acquire a 3b, it will probably be a short term guy with some sort of track record. They could try Devers, but even Mike Trout was a flop on his first call up. How big of a window do you give Devers before deciding the pennant is more important thsn the farm?

[Jack Flap]

I'm sold on going after Frazier, personally...he would seem to check all the right boxes for us, while buying Devers another few months of development time.

 

A decent prospect or two from outside our top tier (say, someone like Ockimey and a lottery ticket arm from the lower levels?) would seem fair to me.

[moonslav59]

I'm sold on going after Frazier, personally...he would seem to check all the right boxes for us, while buying Devers another few months of development time.

 

A decent prospect or two from outside our top tier (say, someone like Ockimey and a lottery ticket arm from the lower levels?) would seem fair to me.

 

I've been talking about Frazier for a couple of years, but I'm not so sure anymore...

 

Season 1st half splits/ second half splits

 

2017-- .782/ TBD

 

2016-- .782/.749

 

2015-- .922/.644

 

2014-- .853/.707

 

2013-- .730/.708

 

2012-- .901/.775

 

2011-- N/A/ .733

 

Streaks and norms are broken all the time, but it concerns me that Frazier has dropped off in the second half every single season of his career. Plus, his base line first half this year is second worst in his career. He's .044 below his career first half numbers. If he ends up .044 below his career second half numbers, we're looking at him finishing the season with us at .677.

 

Career splits:

 

1st half: .826

 

2nd half: .721

 

It may not end up at .677, but is .677 going to be a significant improvement over Lin/Marrero/Rutledge/Holt?

 

Enough to give up a decent prospect or two?

Edited July 8, 2017 by moonslav59

[notin]

I'm sold on going after Frazier, personally...he would seem to check all the right boxes for us, while buying Devers another few months of development time.

 

A decent prospect or two from outside our top tier (say, someone like Ockimey and a lottery ticket arm from the lower levels?) would seem fair to me.

 

If I was Rick Hahn I would hold out for a better offer than that. The lower you go into the minors, the less a player is worth in a trade.

 

O ckimey is a nice prospect, but he's no guarantee of anything. Chavis is a better starting point, but also topple.

 

I don't think anyone is going to deplete the farm for Frazier, but I think he gets more than that. Bear in mind the Yankees might also be looking for a 3b, and they can easily top thst offer...

[Jack Flap]

If I was Rick Hahn I would hold out for a better offer than that. The lower you go into the minors, the less a player is worth in a trade.

 

O ckimey is a nice prospect, but he's no guarantee of anything. Chavis is a better starting point, but also topple.

 

I don't think anyone is going to deplete the farm for Frazier, but I think he gets more than that. Bear in mind the Yankees might also be looking for a 3b, and they can easily top thst offer...

 

Few prospects offer a "guarantee of anything," and ones who do probably aren't going in a trade for a rental third baseman with a .782 OPS. Chavis, who's a back-end top 100 guy at this point (96 on BA's midseason list), seems like he'd be a pretty good get for the White Sox, and above that we don't have a whole lot to offer, assuming Devers and Groome are off limits. I can't speak to what the Yankees will or will not offer, but I just can't see Frazier bringing back any major pieces. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

(For whatever it's worth, Jon Heyman proposed a trade of Frazier to the Red Sox straight up for Bryan Mata, with the White Sox paying $5 million of his salary.)

Edited July 8, 2017 by Jack Flap

[Nick]

Mbeki

 

That's the long term plan, I'm guessing.

 

But Devers has no MLB experience and the success stories of Pedroia, Benintendi, etc won't make him contribute this year.

 

If the Sox acquire a 3b, it will probably be a short term guy with some sort of track record. They could try Devers, but even Mike Trout was a flop on his first call up. How big of a window do you give Devers before deciding the pennant is more important thsn the farm?

 

All he has to do is to play defense. Others are only hitting .230 or so. Give him a week and see what happens. Again, upside is far greater than downside. Supposedly his defense is solid. How much worse can he do than say Pablo?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Hanley Ramirez OPS+ 107

M.Moreland OPS+ 108

 

Chris Young OPS+ 95 (149 at bats)

 

Possible trade targets

L.Duda OPS+ 134

J.Bruce OPS+ 124

T.Frazier OPS+ 109

 

Frazier could replace Young's roster spot. Frazier does have some experience in LF. Duda or Bruce would replace Travis' roster spot. Devers eventually replaces Lin or Marrero. If B.Holt gets it together, he will replace Lin or Marrero.

 

In this scenaro, the Red Sox would have a stronger bench with much more depth--two options at 3b (Devers and Frazier) and a left handed bat with some thunder (Duda or Bruce). I would like to see Duda or Bruce take over the DH role against RHP. Such a move would reduce Hanley's at-bats, meaning that his outrageous 2019 option will not kick in.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[southpaw777]

Hanley Ramirez OPS+ 107

M.Moreland OPS+ 108

 

Chris Young OPS+ 95 (149 at bats)

 

Possible trade targets

L.Duda OPS+ 134

J.Bruce OPS+ 124

T.Frazier OPS+ 109

 

Frazier could replace Young's roster spot. Frazier does have some experience in LF. Duda or Bruce would replace Travis' roster spot. Devers eventually replaces Lin or Marrero. If B.Holt gets it together, he will replace Lin or Marrero.

 

In this scenaro, the Red Sox would have a stronger bench with much more depth--two options at 3b (Devers and Frazier) and a left handed bat with some thunder (Duda or Bruce). I would like to see Duda or Bruce take over the DH role against RHP. Such a move would reduce Hanley's at-bats, meaning that his outrageous 2019 option will not kick in.

 

Great post...The question is who would we have to give up for Duda or Bruce? Not sure the asking Price, but some power from the left side wouldnt hurt. I imagine since both are rentals for a few months it wouldnt be much. Bruce made 13m and would be about 6-7..Duda made 7.5m and woukd be more around 3-4 for the remainer of the season, keeping the sox under the 9m they have before they go over the LT

I would also have to agree with hanley's vesting option. I dont want that to happen. The guy looks to be a constantly injured sinking ship who wont play in the field anymore collecting a LOT of $$$

Edited July 9, 2017 by southpaw777

[OH FOY]

Not Trading Mata for Frazier. Just turned 18, moved already to Single A. Nope. I know early but he is at Single A, and doing alright. These are the Trades that kill your Minor Leagues, not a kid like Ball, whose ceiling is questionable.

In fact that would be my rule if I were a GM, Trade Rentals, for Questionables.

Meaning with a different system, Coaching, they might be a Diamond in the Rough for another Organization. That would be my selling point.

With Mata you just don't know how good he can be. These White Sox Scouts are slick.

Edited July 9, 2017 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

You will need to part with something to get Frazier. Frazier had an abysmal start to the season with sub .200BA's and sub .704OPS's in his first 2 months. But since June 1, he has hit 9HR and slashed .256/.373/.558. Even including his abysmal start, he is still at 1.3WAR and if the past 6 weeks is any indication, he might add to that considerably. Putting his power in Fenway would be interesting, especially in a lineup where he will have to be pitched to. The White Sox lineup has had him protecting Abreu, but he has absolutely no protection either. He is due to shatter his career high in walks.

[OH FOY]

Explore other Trades. Don't rush. White Sox might come down on their asking price by July 31. White Sox are 9 games out of 1st, and 6.5 behind for final WC. I'd be patient. That's the hardest part of being a GM, is stay patient, lets see how things play out, while Fans and Media are screaming. Edited July 9, 2017 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

You don't need to get Frazier. You could get Prado for literally nothing but money. Prado can move all over the diamond too and be some insurance for Pedroia next season if Devers ascends.

[OH FOY]

That sounds more of a move I would make. Versatility is huge. Good Veteran presence too. I like this.

Veteran like him, might light a fire under Hanley's butt.

Edited July 9, 2017 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

I loved that guy when we had him. Always gave a good AB. Not the best defender, but solid. Was able to play 3b and 2b, and heck we even put him in the OF a few times. Made good contact, hit to a decent average, had some pop.

[S5Dewey]

I loved that guy when we had him. Always gave a good AB. Not the best defender, but solid. Was able to play 3b and 2b, and heck we even put him in the OF a few times. Made good contact, hit to a decent average, had some pop.

 

Brock Holt 'lite'?

[OH FOY]

Looks like contract only hold-up. Damn he was Traded by the Yanks, the same year we signed Sandoval.

[OH FOY]

Had 600 at bats last year and hit .305, Holt never do that.

[OH FOY]

Anyway maybe Holt might be in Sox plans, for 3rd. Don't know just don't want to Trade a kid like Mata, with a system that is poor at producing Pitchers from the Minors.

[moonslav59]

Had 600 at bats last year and hit .305, Holt never do that.

 

Counting this year, he's also had two seasons below a .690 OPS since 2011.

 

Holt has been over .705 for 3 straight years, which are all his seasons with over 75 PAs (over 320 PAs as well).

 

I'd rather have Prada over a recovering Holt at 3B this year, but it's not a slam dunk.

The contract is the issue.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Anyway maybe Holt might be in Sox plans, for 3rd. Don't know just don't want to Trade a kid like Mata, with a system that is poor at producing Pitchers from the Minors.

 

I wouldn't trade Mata for Frazier, not when the Red Sox have the best 3b prospect in all of baseball with a 900+ OPS in AA. I would like to acquire Frazier and dump Young, but I'm not going to overpay for Frazier.

 

One of the reasons I'm starting to like Dombrowski is due to the additions he has made to the pitching prospects in the minor leagues. All of a sudden the Red Sox have some really good high ceiling, arms: Groome, Houck, Scherff, and Mata (Mata was the only one Dombrowski did not obtain).

Edited July 9, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Great post...The question is who would we have to give up for Duda or Bruce? Not sure the asking Price, but some power from the left side wouldnt hurt. I imagine since both are rentals for a few months it wouldnt be much. Bruce made 13m and would be about 6-7..Duda made 7.5m and woukd be more around 3-4 for the remainer of the season, keeping the sox under the 9m they have before they go over the LT

I would also have to agree with hanley's vesting option. I dont want that to happen. The guy looks to be a constantly injured sinking ship who wont play in the field anymore collecting a LOT of $$$

 

I wouldn't go higher than Chavis. I'm willing to trade Chavis at the deadline. I would move Travis as well, but I don't think the Mets would want him or have a spot for him.

 

Yeah we have Ben C. to thank for that stupid vesting option in Hanley's contract. Thanks Ben.

[moonslav59]

Anyway maybe Holt might be in Sox plans, for 3rd. Don't know just don't want to Trade a kid like Mata, with a system that is poor at producing Pitchers from the Minors.

 

I'd like to keep Devers, Groome, Travis, Chavis and Mata, but to get something, you have to give something.

 

I'm not sure what a package of 2-3 of these guys would get us. Maybe not much better than what we already have.

 

Ockimey

Chatham

Dalbec

Beeks

Lakins

Johnson

Anderson

Shawaryn

D Hernandez

Callahan

Raudes

 

Personally, I don't think we will be having a rule 5 roster crunch this fall, but some posters disagree. Perhaps trading a couple rule 5 candidates at the deadline would solve any further issues there. We already trade Longhi, who is going to be rule 5.

 

Here are this winter's rule 5 players:

 

2017:

 

Victor Acosta, Yoan Aybar, Trey Ball, Gerson Bautista, Jalen Beeks, Danny Bethea, Jordan Betts, Ty Buttrey, Jamie Callahan, Rusney Castillo, Harrison Cooney, Jake Cosart, Enmanuel De Jesus, Rafael Devers, Jhonathan Diaz, Jake Drehoff, Willis Figueroa, Pat Goetze, Daniel Gonzalez, Taylor Grover, Juan Hernandez, Darwinzon Hernandez, Bryan Hudson, Dedgar Jimenez, Raiwinson Lameda, Isaias Lucena, Danny Mars, Algenis Martinez, Kevin McAvoy, Daniel McGrath, Ritzi Mendoza, Mike Meyers, Mike Miller, Samuel Miranda, Joseph Monge, Jhon Nunez, Yankory Pimentel, Jordan Procyshen, Hildemaro Requena, Jeremy Rivera, Jake Romanski, Chandler Shepherd, Josh Smith, Teddy Stankiewicz, Cole Sturgeon, Carlos Tovar, Jantzen Witte

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't go higher than Chavis. I'm willing to trade Chavis at the deadline. I would move Travis as well, but I don't think the Mets would want him or have a spot for him.

 

Yeah we have Ben C. to thank for that stupid vesting option in Hanley's contract. Thanks Ben.

 

I value your opinion on prospects highly.

 

Who would you trade Chavis or Travis for?

 

Who would you trade both for?

 

What could we get by trading Chavis, Travis and Beeks and/or Lakins?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I would be willing to trade Chavis, Travis, and Ockimey for guys like Frazier, Bruce, Duda. I don't think the Mets would have any interest in Travis or Ockimey--they have a better first base prospect in D.Smith, who will likely be the Mets starting 1b next year. But they don't have a future 3b at this point and might be interested in developing Chavis at that position.

 

I wouldn't trade Devers or Groome and I would really like to hold on to Mata.

[NativeBostonian]

I don't know if there is a third-basemen out there that the Red Sox can get that's going to have that big of an impact. The only one I think could help is Jed Lowrie and who knows what that's going to cost.

[S5Dewey]

I don't know if there is a third-basemen out there that the Red Sox can get that's going to have that big of an impact. The only one I think could help is Jed Lowrie and who knows what that's going to cost.

 

That's what I see as the problem. There are 3b out there who could be had, there are some whom we would want, and some whom we'd be willing to pay the asking price for but nobody who fits all three criteria. Since this situation probably isn't going to get any better as we approach the TD we're probably going to overpay for someone we don't really want or we're going to go with our in-house options.

 

I like Door #2 better,

[dgalehouse]

Trading Shaw was a blunder. No sense crying about it now. Lin is batting .333 with an .871 OPS. The assumption is that he will drop off considerably due to his minor league stats. But that was also said about Shaw. Why not wait and see? Anyway, there should be no urgency in trading for a third baseman. We are 3 1/2 games up. Devers is waiting in the wings. As is Holt. And possibly Peralta or maybe even Panda. Sit tight until the deadline. We should also know more about Carson Smith by then.

[NativeBostonian]

Johnny Peralta and Pablo Sandoval both suck and should be cut to make room for Devers in AAA. We need to see what he can do at the higher level. Also, I don't know how much you can rely on Holt. He has been suffering from vertigo for months now and this is something that only takes a couple weeks at most to recover from. It is not looking good. Right now, the only hope is that Lin keeps doing what he is doing, and or Devers does well at AAA and can come up earlier then expected.

[S5Dewey]

Everyone seems to agree that there's usually a certain transition period when a player goes up a league. The thing we may forget is that that period may be longer for some players than others and consequently we sometimes give up on a player too soon. I see it as possible that we gave up on Shaw too soon. It was justified at the time because he'd had one season (spread over two years) of sub-par performance and as a large market team we can't always wait for players to develop.

 

Another player whom many gave up on is JBJ. C'mon now..., without revisionist history, how many of you really were clamoring for a trade of him when he was hitting around .200? IIRC you can count those of us who wanted to keep him - if only for his defense - on one hand. If DD had been listening to the fans JBJ would be playing for someone else now.

 

Now we're looking at Marrero and Lin. Marerro has been around a while and has developed the rep of 'good glove, no hit" who's carrying an unexpected ML OPS of >.600. I'm not claiming that .600 is acceptable for a 3b but it's more than expected. Is it possible that his transition period is still going on and he'll be at least respectable?

 

And then we have Lin with the OPS of almost .900. If someone says that's not sustainable I'm going to agree, but this start reminds me of that guy who's currently playing Lf for the Sox (minus the hype). Do we give up on him when he comes back to earth like Beni did?

 

I'm in no rush to make a bad trade to fill our issues at 3b when we're in 1st place and we have two guys getting the job done now, and fortunately DD isn't either.

[Hugh2]

Trading Shaw was a blunder. No sense crying about it now. Lin is batting .333 with an .871 OPS. The assumption is that he will drop off considerably due to his minor league stats. But that was also said about Shaw. Why not wait and see? Anyway, there should be no urgency in trading for a third baseman. We are 3 1/2 games up. Devers is waiting in the wings. As is Holt. And possibly Peralta or maybe even Panda. Sit tight until the deadline. We should also know more about Carson Smith by then.

 

I get what you're saying but it's never a good idea to bet on the exception and not the norm. There will always be anecdotal evidence (Travis Shaw) to justify why guys like Tzu-Wei Lin will play exceptionally well at the MLB level. But more often than not guys regress to what they are.

 

Also, it's important to not that Shaw could always hit, he had a .803 OPS in the minors and currently his MLB OPS is .809. The question with Shaw was if he had the bat speed to carry his hitting tools to the next level, and it looks like he does. Sometimes guys have other qualities that we just can't quantify, who knows what it is with Shaw....maybe he's just really smart and able to overcome that deficiency.

 

Wei Lin is currently sporting a .877 OPS in 46 PA's after 6 seasons in the minors with an OPS of .638. It's extremely, extremely likely his MLB line going forward at some point is going to represent the .638 if not worse. Things change, this isn't set in stone, but he's not going to BABIP .448 for the rest of the season.

 

I'm a big fan of riding what you got, catching lightning in a bottle, going with the trend, or however else you want to put it and Lin plays the position fine.

 

But at times this teams lack of offense has really shown, and if there's one place we can use an upgrade.....it's at 3B. Perhaps Lin stays hot long enough for a guy like Devers in a month or two, but I'd be very uncomfortable if Lin is our 3B going into the post season.

 

If I'm wrong, and he's sporting a .877 OPS come October I'd gladly eat some crow. You guys can shove a big old plate of crow done my throat. It's exciting to see guys defy the odds but hedging your bets at 3B could pay dividends when it comes to trying to win a WS this year.