Should Jackie Bradley Jr be traded?

[cp176]

My point was, you can still be a great fielder and only rank 10-13th. QA kid who scores 99 for a semester but is ranked 3rd out 5 is not mediocre.

 

I agree that JBJ can eventually be replaced and maybe should be, if he can't hit over somewhere around .600 to .650. Once he gets to the .650-.700 range, it's more debatable. If he's over .700, IMO, he's a clear plus that can still be improved upon, but show me who and how before I say yes.

 

Clearly, if he hits .500 this year, we can find a great glove CF'er for cheaper than JBJ's arb (even though that might not be that much after a .500 season).

 

If that is how you are able to interpret data, then what exactly are the rules? You are telling me that the 12 guys who are ranked ahead of JBJ are all gold glove worthy? You see where I am going with this I bet.

[moonslav59]

If that is how you are able to interpret data, then what exactly are the rules? You are telling me that the 12 guys who are ranked ahead of JBJ are all gold glove worthy? You see where I am going with this I bet.

 

I'm not sure if all 13 are GG worthy. I don't watch all of them play nearly every game. I do watch JBJ every game, and he's the best Sox defensive CF'er I've ever seen. (That does not make him an automatic GG winner or top contender, but I do think he is very close to GG caliber from what little I've seen of other current great fielding CF'ers.

 

If I try to be totally objective, I'd say JBJ has never deserved a GG. Others have likely been better and more deserving.

 

My point is, you don't have to be the best or even top 5 to be a huge plus to your team on defense. He's not a plus on defense when we play teams with equal or better defensive CF'ers.

 

I know this: JBJ is better than anyone else on our team in CF by a long shot. Beni is way better than JMart in LF. Our OF is way better with JBJ in CF and Beni in RF. We don't gain enough playing Moreland in the line-up instead of JBJ.

[cp176]

I would never disagree with the comment that he is the best we have nor would I disagree about him being damned good out there. I like him too but if you believe what the analytics show and you still don't think that he is replaceable then I guess I don't know what to say. Since he is currently on our team, he definitely should be in centerfield but based on analytical information he sure and hell looks replaceable. that is all I got. this discussion for me really has little to do with JBJ being our center fielder right now.

[oldtimer]

So, are there no tremendous defensive CF'er in minor league ball that can hit .101 at minimum wage?

 

Cole Brannen has the talent to be a terrific defensive CF. He has a long way to go to prove himself with the bat, but we have just such a young player in the system. He is only in Greenville at this point and is 19 years old.

[moonslav59]

I would never disagree with the comment that he is the best we have nor would I disagree about him being damned good out there. I like him too but if you believe what the analytics show and you still don't think that he is replaceable then I guess I don't know what to say. Since he is currently on our team, he definitely should be in centerfield but based on analytical information he sure and hell looks replaceable. that is all I got. this discussion for me really has little to do with JBJ being our center fielder right now.

 

You talking to me?

 

I don't disagree with anything you said here.

[moonslav59]

Cole Brannen has the talent to be a terrific defensive CF. He has a long way to go to prove himself with the bat, but we have just such a young player in the system. He is only in Greenville at this point and is 19 years old.

 

By the time he's ready, JBJ will be a FA or re-signed.

[cp176]

You talking to me?

 

I don't disagree with anything you said here.

 

I didn't really think that you did and I appreciate you saying as much. You did give me a chance to express my opinion which probably has a lot more to do with gathering information to make decisions as opposed to who should be in cf for us right now.

[moonslav59]

I didn't really think that you did and I appreciate you saying as much. You did give me a chance to express my opinion which probably has a lot more to do with gathering information to make decisions as opposed to who should be in cf for us right now.

 

Makes sense.

 

As much as I have liked JBJ over the years, I'm not against looking at other chocies and gathering information.

 

I do think, looking at the data and net value of each of our current players and where we might project they are going forward, playing JBJ FT or nearly FT looks like the best option to me.

[SoxHop]

What really scares me about JBJ is that one year he doesn't have his magic month.

[Slasher9]

Hop. He's magic every game in CF. every game.

[SoxHop]

Hop. He's magic every game in CF. every game.

 

He is for sure.

 

I thought last year due to gained experience he might stretch out that month a bit, but it didn't happen. I've given up on him at the plate, and don't think trusting him to have a magic month at bat should be counted on for a team this caliber.

[Sox75]

Last year felt brutal with JBJ because the team was stacked with hitters who all hit like JBJ. Streaky....

Often cold.....

No. You can't field a team that all hits that way. Conversely, you can't field a team where all the players field like JDM!

 

JBJ is a very average, streaky hitter. He got a bum-rap that first year - year & 1/2. Last year was not great at all, but certainly serviceable. Often frustrating, but very serviceable.

 

Add his +++ GG fielding, and this conversation becomes absurd! JBJ is a generational CF'r with pop. He is going to be an ALL-Star CF'r when he puts it all together at the plate. I HOPE!

 

AGAIN . . This conversation absurd . . . .

 

That is . . . Until our bats continue to stay more COLD than hot. Then, all hell breaks loose! Katie bar the door! Take no prisoners! Hang them all.....

 

NO WAY I trade JBJ now that I've seen JDM in the OF!

Edited April 10, 2018 by Sox75

[notin]

Cole Brannen has the talent to be a terrific defensive CF. He has a long way to go to prove himself with the bat, but we have just such a young player in the system. He is only in Greenville at this point and is 19 years old.

 

So is JBJ such a bad hitter the thought is he could be replaced by a teenager in A-ball whose offensive skills are in question?

[notin]

What really scares me about JBJ is that one year he doesn't have his magic month.

 

It's ok. We don't need superstar hitters at every position.

[moonslav59]

It's ok. We don't need superstar hitters at every position.

 

True.

 

We heard the same about replacing our catchers last year.

 

Vaz hits .730 one year, and now the hounds are set to JBJ's trail.

 

Not a peep about Beni. He's -1.4 UZR/150 career and has a .570 career OPS vs LHPs. (Note: I'm not for benching JBJ.)

 

I guess no matter how good our team is doing, people seem to want to first identify what they perceive is our biggest weakness, and no matter how small the sample size is or how great they guy might be in other areas of play, harp on replacing the weakest link.

 

I admit, I look for tryin to improve our weakest areas, too. It's a natural and justifiable strategy,

 

However, it's just 8 games played. Yes, add it to last year and JBJ's offense is a "weak area," but replacing JBJ with someone in our system, IMO, would weaken the team more than help. Swihart or Moreland would have to go nutty on offense. Nobody's talking trade this time of year.

 

I'm just not seeing any suggestion that excludes JBJ in CF as being a better choice right now.

 

[SoxHop]

True.

 

We heard the same about replacing our catchers last year.

 

Vaz hits .730 one year, and now the hounds are set to JBJ's trail.

 

Not a peep about Beni. He's -1.4 UZR/150 career and has a .570 career OPS vs LHPs. (Note: I'm not for benching JBJ.)

 

I guess no matter how good our team is doing, people seem to want to first identify what they perceive is our biggest weakness, and no matter how small the sample size is or how great they guy might be in other areas of play, harp on replacing the weakest link.

 

I admit, I look for tryin to improve our weakest areas, too. It's a natural and justifiable strategy,

 

However, it's just 8 games played. Yes, add it to last year and JBJ's offense is a "weak area," but replacing JBJ with someone in our system, IMO, would weaken the team more than help. Swihart or Moreland would have to go nutty on offense. Nobody's talking trade this time of year.

 

I'm just not seeing any suggestion that excludes JBJ in CF as being a better choice right now.

 

 

Are you serious?

[moonslav59]

Are you serious?

 

Yup.

 

(No sarcasm alert)

[SoxHop]

Yup.

 

(No sarcasm alert)

 

Good on ya then. That's quite a lot you predicted packed into your post.

[tombirner]

If other GMs overvalue Bradley the way some people around here do, we should definitely trade him. Dude is a minor league bat who is slightly better at tracking down fly balls than other center fielders. Woo-hoo.

 

I'm not saying I'd cut him, but I thought we should have traded him in some of the rumored deals I'd heard the last few years. Who knows if they were actually on the table, though.

 

Most center fielders are usually the best/most athletic outfielders on their team. Tracking down fly balls is something they've been doing since tee-ball. JBJ gets a slightly better jump and may make the occasional highlight reel catch, but his hitting is putrid.

 

I understand what others are saying about being able to hide him in our stacked lineup -- it has some logic to it, but I'm just not sure how lineup is sufficiently "stacked" for that. Package E-Rod and JBJ for a good starting pitcher, put Benitendi in center, and... okay, yeah, I agree that J.D. in left is a scary thought, but he seems to have a good work ethic -- hopefully he works at it and becomes serviceable. If Manny could do it, he probably can too.

 

Then Hanley is the full-time DH and his option vests, which I am completely opposed to at whatever cost/detriment to this season.

 

So never mind. This is why I'm not a GM. As Bradley's hitting continues to drop, so does his value, I suppose. Should have traded him after his one good season at the dish.

[Jasonbay44]

For all the arguments of JBJ's defense being overrated and him rated 11th or whatever, one of those 10 outfielders ahead of him isn't a replacement option. I just don't see how taking him out of the lineup and either inserting Moreland in (with JD as a full time OF) or starting Swihart full time is worth it. With the options we currently have, I don't see how benching JBJ or trading him without acquiring another OF (and this doesn't really makes sense either) will make the team better. Moreland isn't an elite offensive player, he's mediocre at best (and has been worse than JBJ so far for these SSS loving people) and JD is horrible in the outfield. Swihart is mostly an unknown, who hasn't prove anything.

 

Its a joke this gets discussed literally every year when JBJ starts slow. Trading him when he is slumping in the middle of the season makes literally no sense.

[Jasonbay44]

If other GMs overvalue Bradley the way some people around here do, we should definitely trade him. Dude is a minor league bat who is slightly better at tracking down fly balls than other center fielders. Woo-hoo.

 

I'm not saying I'd cut him, but I thought we should have traded him in some of the rumored deals I'd heard the last few years. Who knows if they were actually on the table, though.

 

Most center fielders are usually the best/most athletic outfielders on their team. Tracking down fly balls is something they've been doing since tee-ball. JBJ gets a slightly better jump and may make the occasional highlight reel catch, but his hitting is putrid.

 

I understand what others are saying about being able to hide him in our stacked lineup -- it has some logic to it, but I'm just not sure how lineup is sufficiently "stacked" for that. Package E-Rod and JBJ for a good starting pitcher, put Benitendi in center, and... okay, yeah, I agree that J.D. in left is a scary thought, but he seems to have a good work ethic -- hopefully he works at it and becomes serviceable. If Manny could do it, he probably can too.

 

Then Hanley is the full-time DH and his option vests, which I am completely opposed to at whatever cost/detriment to this season.

 

So never mind. This is why I'm not a GM. As Bradley's hitting continues to drop, so does his value, I suppose. Should have traded him after his one good season at the dish.

Did Manny really "do it" though? He was horrible in the field. Also JD is 30 and has never been a good fielder, he isn't just going to become a good fielder out of nowhere.

[Bellhorn04]

If other GMs overvalue Bradley the way some people around here do, we should definitely trade him. Dude is a minor league bat who is slightly better at tracking down fly balls than other center fielders. Woo-hoo.

 

I'm not saying I'd cut him, but I thought we should have traded him in some of the rumored deals I'd heard the last few years. Who knows if they were actually on the table, though.

 

Most center fielders are usually the best/most athletic outfielders on their team. Tracking down fly balls is something they've been doing since tee-ball. JBJ gets a slightly better jump and may make the occasional highlight reel catch, but his hitting is putrid.

 

He's wildly erratic with the stick but the numbers do not support the idea that he's been a 'minor league bat' or 'putrid'.

 

He has a career OPS+ of 92 which is obviously below average but not horrible.

 

For old school power numbers he has averaged 17 HR and 71 RBI per 162.

[cp176]

JBJ is the best we got out there right now. He should be out there right now. He wouldn't be my choice as the best cf that we have ever had but he is the best we have right now. He is a very good fielder if you believe your eyes which I do. Lately his talents as well as his significance to this team's success are being blown out of proportion. If he doesn't hit, at some point in time he is going to be replaced. He would not bring back squat in a trade right now because he is such a streaky hitter. I'll enjoy him while we have him but I won't elevate him to some heroic figure out there.

[moonslav59]

Good on ya then. That's quite a lot you predicted packed into your post.

 

What did I predict in that post? What's your main issue with anything I said?

 

Tell me who you want to play (and where) with JBJ on the bench.

[moonslav59]

For all the arguments of JBJ's defense being overrated and him rated 11th or whatever, one of those 10 outfielders ahead of him isn't a replacement option. I just don't see how taking him out of the lineup and either inserting Moreland in (with JD as a full time OF) or starting Swihart full time is worth it. With the options we currently have, I don't see how benching JBJ or trading him without acquiring another OF (and this doesn't really makes sense either) will make the team better. Moreland isn't an elite offensive player, he's mediocre at best (and has been worse than JBJ so far for these SSS loving people) and JD is horrible in the outfield. Swihart is mostly an unknown, who hasn't prove anything.

 

Its a joke this gets discussed literally every year when JBJ starts slow. Trading him when he is slumping in the middle of the season makes literally no sense.

 

Yes, it's become a broken record. Every slump JBJ goes through, and there have been many, is going to be career lasting starting right now. Then, he gets hot, we hear a few mea culpas, and then we hit reset.

 

Jason said it best- no other options make sense.

 

If we needed a solid SP'er, we might think of trading JBJ for that and suck it up on defense, but Pom and Wright are returning soon.

 

I still think Pedey's return and health outlook might end up being the deciding factor, as Nunez in LF makes a hell of a lot more sense than JMart, to me.

 

Career UZR/150 in the OF

 

Nunez +17.0 in 322 innings (small sample size for sure, but much better than JMart)

 

-2.4 in 6089 innings

 

IF JBJ is still in a horrible slump when Pedey returns, then (IMO) an argument might be made to bench or trade JBJ>

[moonslav59]

He's wildly erratic with the stick but the numbers do not support the idea that he's been a 'minor league bat' or 'putrid'.

 

He has a career OPS+ of 92 which is obviously below average but not horrible.

 

For old school power numbers he has averaged 17 HR and 71 RBI per 162.

 

Since 2015, he has these numbers over 1461 PAs

 

9.2 WAR

107 wRC+

.336 wOBA (.301 BAbip)

.785 OPS (HRam is at .786 and Bogey .783)

.198 ISO (Betts is at .199)

+10.2 Baserunning on the fangraph's index

 

His offense has looked okay over a larger sample size than 8 games or 1.1 years. He's not past prime. I'm not sure why so many people seem to expect a .550 OPS or something this year from JBJ.

 

He's in a slump. History usually repeats itself, so we can probably expect he'll get hot at some point and end up somewhere between .700 and .800.

 

 

[cp176]

Since 2015, he has these numbers over 1461 PAs

 

9.2 WAR

107 wRC+

.336 wOBA (.301 BAbip)

.785 OPS (HRam is at .786 and Bogey .783)

.198 ISO (Betts is at .199)

+10.2 Baserunning on the fangraph's index

 

His offense has looked okay over a larger sample size than 8 games or 1.1 years. He's not past prime. I'm not sure why so many people seem to expect a .550 OPS or something this year from JBJ.

 

He's in a slump. History usually repeats itself, so we can probably expect he'll get hot at some point and end up somewhere between .700 and .800.

 

 

 

 

In all fairness Moon though don't you have to say that very few people on here are actually out for JBJ's head. What maybe one or two and that's it. People might want more than what they are getting from their center fielder and that is understandable but almost every person that has posted here knows that he is our best option out there for the time being. It really isn't some kind of witch hunt that's going on. The discussion in general about how valuable he is or isn't is just being blown out of proportion.

[moonslav59]

In all fairness Moon though don't you have to say that very few people on here are actually out for JBJ's head. What maybe one or two and that's it. People might want more than what they are getting from their center fielder and that is understandable but almost every person that has posted here knows that he is our best option out there for the time being. It really isn't some kind of witch hunt that's going on. The discussion in general about how valuable he is or isn't is just being blown out of proportion.

 

Good points.

 

Nobody has really come forward with a specific in-house alternative plan that will win over the majority of this board.

 

Streaky hitters always seem to bring out the critics.

 

Remember Napoli's horrific slump followed by a near all-by-himself championship leading stretch? (now, that's hyperbole!)

 

[oldtimer]

So is JBJ such a bad hitter the thought is he could be replaced by a teenager in A-ball whose offensive skills are in question?

 

I replied to the comment that we didn't have any prospects for CF in the minors. I pointed out the best prospect we have and identified his weaknesses. I didn't say he was ready to replace JBJ, but you hear what you want to hear and react accordingly.

[notin]

I replied to the comment that we didn't have any prospects for CF in the minors. I pointed out the best prospect we have and identified his weaknesses. I didn't say he was ready to replace JBJ, but you hear what you want to hear and react accordingly.

 

But a replacement for Bradley was what the post was about, specifically a replacement for Bradley if he performed at a certain level.

 

The Sox best lineup right now features Bradley in CF. I don't see why people want to bench him in order to get more plate appearances for Mitch Moreland, who is barely a better hitter, all while weakening the team defensively in two outfield positions (but upgrading 1b defense).