Should Jackie Bradley Jr be traded?

[devildavid]

I want to ad that Nap saw an awfully large amount of pitches, generally. At least from what I remember. That has value.

 

Napoli's lifetime avg. of pitches per plate appearance is 4.37. JBJ's is 3.9.

[Jack Flap]

Napoli certainly never brought what Bradley does in terms of stellar defense at a premium position, either.

 

A different JBJ comp I saw the other day that seems to fit: Mike Cameron.

[Bellhorn04]

Napoli certainly never brought what Bradley does in terms of stellar defense at a premium position, either.

 

A different JBJ comp I saw the other day that seems to fit: Mike Cameron.

 

Just to clarify, the Napoli comp was strictly about the type of hitter JBJ is.

[Dojji]

Napoli certainly never brought what Bradley does in terms of stellar defense at a premium position, either.

 

A different JBJ comp I saw the other day that seems to fit: Mike Cameron.

[rant]

I've often felt that the metrics underrated defense at first base due to confusion of two different issues, myself.

 

The idea being that 1B is at the bottom of the defensive spectrum and therefore defense there is as unimportant as it can possibly be. I think that's false. The defensive spectrum is about the level of athleticism required to play the position and how rare a really good defender is likely to be. it's about managing risk at different positions and has nothing really to do with finding places to sacrifice defense in favor of offense, despite the fact that that's what it's usually used for in fan discussions.

 

While first base requires less raw athleticism than up the middle positions, the position has a stronger "handsiness" requirement than almost every other position. You can make up for the occasional error at nearly every position with superior athleticism and making plays outside your zone, but not first base. The two positions where the absolute consistency in making routine plays are most critical are first catcher, and then first base. First base is the position on the field other than catcher and pitcher that touches the ball the most. There's a reason catchers who are moved off the backstop position wind up at first base a lot, and it's not always about lack of mobility. The difference between a really good "handsy" defensive 1B, like Napoli or Youkilis, and a mediocre one can be enormous.

 

A defensive 1B can absolutely take away dozens of runs over the course of a season relative to a purely offensive one. Think of the value added by a player like Kevin Youkilis who in his prime was elite on both sides of the ball, over a masher like Ryan Howard who risks exposing the defense on every ground ball play, and in an era where the metagame favors forcing grounders no less. Napoli made an enormous contribution to the success of the 2013 team by turning in a strong year at first base, along with the power he hit for.

 

[/rant]

[Jack Flap]

Just to clarify, the Napoli comp was strictly about the type of hitter JBJ is.

 

Right, I got that, obviously. There were a couple of posts about Bradley not seeing the same number of pitches, which is a pretty minor issue compared to what JBJ brings to the table defensively. (That was really my point...should have clarified.)

[S5Dewey]

[rant]

I've often felt that the metrics underrated defense at first base due to confusion of two different issues, myself.

 

The idea being that 1B is at the bottom of the defensive spectrum and therefore defense there is as unimportant as it can possibly be. I think that's false. The defensive spectrum is about the level of athleticism required to play the position and how rare a really good defender is likely to be. it's about managing risk at different positions and has nothing really to do with finding places to sacrifice defense in favor of offense, despite the fact that that's what it's usually used for in fan discussions.

 

While first base requires less raw athleticism than up the middle positions, the position has a stronger "handsiness" requirement than almost every other position. You can make up for the occasional error at nearly every position with superior athleticism and making plays outside your zone, but not first base. The two positions where the absolute consistency in making routine plays are most critical are first catcher, and then first base. First base is the position on the field other than catcher and pitcher that touches the ball the most. There's a reason catchers who are moved off the backstop position wind up at first base a lot, and it's not always about lack of mobility. The difference between a really good "handsy" defensive 1B, like Napoli or Youkilis, and a mediocre one can be enormous.

 

A defensive 1B can absolutely take away dozens of runs over the course of a season relative to a purely offensive one. Think of the value added by a player like Kevin Youkilis who in his prime was elite on both sides of the ball, over a masher like Ryan Howard who risks exposing the defense on every ground ball play, and in an era where the metagame favors forcing grounders no less. Napoli made an enormous contribution to the success of the 2013 team by turning in a strong year at first base, along with the power he hit for.

 

[/rant]

 

YES!! OMG, someone who thinks the same way I do about 1B!

 

Another thing that was only touched on is the fact that having a good 1bman makes everyone in the infield better because they don't have the pressure of making that perfect throw. The more a player thinks about the mechanics of his throw the worse it's going to be and having a good 1B allows them to not think about the throw.

 

IMO that's why you see so many pitchers make throwing errors to bases on what should be a routine play. They THINK about the throw... how far away they are, how hard to throw it... and it affects the throwing motion.

 

I had a period of time when I was playing in the infield and "my" first baseman was 6'10" tall. I knew that all I had to do was come up with the ball and get it somewhere near him and he'd make the play. Consequently I made more good throws that year. Not only fewer errors, but more GOOD throws.

[S5Dewey]

Just keep posting S5. This all sounds every much like a few 13 year old girls having a spat.

 

Thanks........... I think.

[notin]

It I

sk7326 has compared JBJ to Napoli as a hitter. Seems pretty appropriate.

 

I don't like this comp. Napoli takes lots of pitches and draws more walks (and has more power).. Josh Roddick might be a better comparison

[Slasher9]

similar batters through 26:

 

Mike Cameron (979.0)

Nick Esasky (968.7)

Josh Reddick (968.2)

Darryl Motley (965.0)

Larry Hisle (964.3)

Desmond Jennings (963.3)

Daryl Boston (962.4)

Drew Stubbs (962.4)

Joe Marty (958.7)

Mack Jones (958.0)

[Slasher9]

for gits and shiggles i looked up bryce harper vs mookie betts as they are similar aged.

 

who do you think goes which what list...

 

 

Andruw Jones (963.1)

Justin Upton (944.2)

Ruben Sierra (935.2)

Jose Canseco (927.6)

Frank Robinson (926.4) *

Mickey Mantle (923.7) *

Tony Conigliaro (921.2)

Juan Gonzalez (916.0)

Ken Griffey (905.4) *

Cesar Cedeno (905.2)

 

 

 

Duke Snider (970.4) *

Grady Sizemore (968.1)

Tommy Davis (958.0)

Ellis Valentine (951.5)

Del Ennis (946.5)

Pete Reiser (942.3)

Pablo Sandoval (935.6)

David Wright (933.6)

Yasiel Puig (932.5)

Willie Mays (931.0) *

[mvp 78]

At first blush, I'd say Mookie is in the 2nd list, only because that Grady Sizemore comp really stands out to me. Grady was a beast before his injuries.

[Spudboy]

for gits and shiggles i looked up bryce harper vs mookie betts as they are similar aged.

 

who do you think goes which what list...

 

 

Andruw Jones (963.1)

Justin Upton (944.2)

Ruben Sierra (935.2)

Jose Canseco (927.6)

Frank Robinson (926.4) *

Mickey Mantle (923.7) *

Tony Conigliaro (921.2)

Juan Gonzalez (916.0)

Ken Griffey (905.4) *

Cesar Cedeno (905.2)

 

 

 

Duke Snider (970.4) *

Grady Sizemore (968.1)

Tommy Davis (958.0)

Ellis Valentine (951.5)

Del Ennis (946.5)

Pete Reiser (942.3)

Pablo Sandoval (935.6)

David Wright (933.6)

Yasiel Puig (932.5)

Willie Mays (931.0) *

 

Lol

[mvp 78]

JBJ is good for one great month.

 

2015:

5/10 - 8/8 146 BABIP and 426 OPS

8/9 - 9/7 577 BABIP and 1441 OPS

9/8 - 10/4 173 BABIP and 510 OPS

 

2016:

4/5 - 5/4 348 BABIP and 792 OPS

5/5 - 5/30 400 BABIP and 1232 OPS

6/1 - 9/30 289 BABIP and 765 OPS

 

Right now he's hitting like the bad parts of 2015. If he was back to hitting like the cooler months from 2016, we wouldn't be complaining right now.

 

JBJ 2017

 

April - May: BABIP 220 OPS 669

May 30th - July 4th: BABIP 412 OPS 1029

July 5th - Sept: BABIP 263 OPS 598

 

It looks like he'll continue on the one hot month per year path.

[Slasher9]

let's use up next year's month this October.

[oldtimer]

let's use up next year's month this October.

 

I went back through the last few series, and included Sept 15 and up, since he had a good day then. For all of those games, he has gone 6 for 39 for an average of .154. That is not getting it done for us. There was an article about his struggles today and the writer couldn't put his finger on any one issue, only that he is not hitting.

[moonslav59]

He'll get hot just when we need it.

 

(Hopefully)

 

Bogey is more streaky than he is.

[Kimmi]

And the answer to the question of whether he should be traded is still NO.

[moonslav59]

And the answer to the question of whether he should be traded is still NO.

 

He's one of the last guys I'd consider trading.

[mvp 78]

He's one of the last guys I'd consider trading.

 

Can’t ever trade the guy who can’t stay out of the 9th spot!

[mvp 78]

He'll get hot just when we need it.

 

(Hopefully)

 

Bogey is more streaky than he is.

 

Didn’t happen last year.

[moonslav59]

Didn’t happen last year.

 

All the more reason to this year!

[mvp 78]

Sox score 10, JBJ with another 0 for 4.

[moonslav59]

Sox score 10, JBJ with another 0 for 4.

 

Would you rather have him get all his hits tonight?

[mvp 78]

Would you rather have him get all his hits tonight?

 

That’s not how it works. He’s streaky and right now he’s ice cold.

[oldtimer]

He's one of the last guys I'd consider trading.

 

You have strong opinions about this. My own is that we know he is a great defensive player, but his hitting is streaky and I would trade him for the right return. He is 28 now and should be in his prime, but has shown no real improvement at the plate. The same very streaky hitter with the hot part of the streak few and far between.

[Slasher9]

And the answer to the question of whether he should be traded is still NO.

On this we agree 1 million

[Slasher9]

JBj will win us a postseason game....

[iortiz]

I have always liked JBJ. I definitely wouldn't trade him.

[moonslav59]

That’s not how it works. He’s streaky and right now he’s ice cold.

 

Yes, and hopefully he gets hot when others are down and we need a win.

 

Every time anyone slumps, the boo birds come out. JBJ will heat up again, and then the trade talk stops...again.

 

Streaky players can be frustrating, but just give me the final numbers and I'll live with the hot and cold streaks.

[moonslav59]

You have strong opinions about this. My own is that we know he is a great defensive player, but his hitting is streaky and I would trade him for the right return. He is 28 now and should be in his prime, but has shown no real improvement at the plate. The same very streaky hitter with the hot part of the streak few and far between.

 

I'll trade anybody and everybody "for the right return", so I'm not sure what that means, until you name a name.

 

All I know is that he's one of the last guys I'd consider trading. He's low cost. He has 4 arb years not 3 like some. We have a tricky CF in our park and a lot of room to cover out there. He's worth a ton on D. He rarely makes base-running mistakes. His arm can be a little erratic at times, but it's a strong plus nevertheless. He keeps runners from even trying to take an extra base. There's a lot of things he does that do not show up in the box score.

 

Considering years of team control, contract cost and overall skill set, I'd rank our top players something like this:

Everyday starting players only

1) Betts

2) Beni (One could argue his extra years make him more valuable than Betts, but the D tips the balance.)

3) Devers

4) JBJ

5) Vaz

6) Bogey

7) Pedey

 

It's hard to know who I'd choose to trade, if I had to. If I could get way more for Devers than JBJ, then I'd do] it.