Farrell

[a700hitter]

how about we give him some low leverage opportunities for a few games?

That is an idea that I support .

[S5Dewey]

I try to avoid micro-inspection of a manager's moves.

 

Chapman is one of the best RP'ers in the game. He was throwing 103 mph. He's not let up an HR all year or let a lefty take him deep in 6 years. I can't blame Giradi for Devers' HR anymore than I can blame JF for Betts' dropped fly ball against the wall.

 

Sure, managers are by and large judged by winning or losing, and we're winning right now, but this team is making 2 or more mental mistakes or blunders every game, and that's going to bite us in the ass someday. I just hope it's not the 7th game of a playoff series,

but can't we all imagine us saying, "It's fitting that we lost because a player forgot how many outs there were. We've been making these fundamental mistakes all year long."

 

My other bone of contention with JF was what I called a lack of "fire and desire." I think Devers and Nunez have sparked this team upon their arrival. I'm not giving JF credit for that, but at least that area seems to have improved enough for me.

 

Kimmie, would you like to handle this "fire and desire" and "spark" post for me? I think we've established by now that emotions play no part in a player's hitting.

 

I'll be looking for "Fire" "Desire" and "Spark" dancing with "Mystique" and "Aura" at The Golden Banana.

 

(Nothing personal, Moon. )

[Bellhorn04]

I'll be more worried than if Kimbrel was coming in, but I also have little faith in Barnes, Hembree and the returning Kelly (for now as well.

 

It's funny how we have such little faith in any relievers not named Kimbrel in spite of the fact we largely agree that the pen has done an overall great job this year.

[sk7326]

It's funny how we have such little faith in any relievers not named Kimbrel in spite of the fact we largely agree that the pen has done an overall great job this year.

 

Or not faith in Farrell, despite his deployment of this ragtag, unreliable bunch of relievers who have put up the league's best ERA

[sk7326]

Kimmie, would you like to handle this "fire and desire" and "spark" post for me? I think we've established by now that emotions play no part in a player's hitting.

 

I'll be looking for "Fire" "Desire" and "Spark" dancing with "Mystique" and "Aura" at The Golden Banana.

 

(Nothing personal, Moon. )

 

Intangibles matter ... it's just that intangible effects CAN be measured by tangible results - and results are sort of what matters, no?

 

I think it has been a long season - and a long season where nobody has been amazing. Betts has had a terrific season, but so much of it is with the glove it is easy to miss. So you have Sale. But otherwise, you have a bunch of "good" seasons - and the team hit a slog.

 

Nunez and Devers have provided a spark - but then, so did a 4 game series against the worst team in the AL.

[S5Dewey]

Intangibles matter ... it's just that intangible effects CAN be measured by tangible results - and results are sort of what matters, no?

 

I think it has been a long season - and a long season where nobody has been amazing. Betts has had a terrific season, but so much of it is with the glove it is easy to miss. So you have Sale. But otherwise, you have a bunch of "good" seasons - and the team hit a slog.

 

Nunez and Devers have provided a spark - but then, so did a 4 game series against the worst team in the AL.

 

You're assuming that there are such things as "intangibles" which will affect a player's performance.

[sk7326]

You're assuming that there are such things as "intangibles" which will affect a player's performance.

 

The players are human - that was never not in evidence. But when I look at a slash line, or whatever stat - the players tangible and intangible qualities come out in that wash.

[S5Dewey]

It sounds like you're saying that intangibles (such as "clutch") do exist and are are evidenced in that slash line.

 

I asked the question some time back whether a hitter has good stats because he's "clutch", or if the player wasn't clutch but just a "good hitter". It looks like you've answered that. Some players have good stats because they're clutch!

[sk7326]

It sounds like you're saying that intangibles (such as "clutch") do exist and are are evidenced in that slash line.

 

I asked the question some time back whether a hitter has good stats because he's "clutch", or if the player wasn't clutch but just a "good hitter". It looks like you've answered that. Some players have good stats because they're clutch!

 

I know clutch exists - it certainly does for me watching them. BUT I don't think clutch is a meaningful distinction - the list of good "clutch hitters" is basically the same as a list of good hitters. I would rather have had Ortiz up than anybody in a big spot - but I wanted him up in the little spots, and the medium spots too. And for the most part that describes Trout, Cabrera, Votto, Betts, whatever you want.

 

For pitchers it could be slightly different - since working from the windup vs out of the stretch is a different mechanical skill.

[Spudboy]

In my opinion, being manager of a major league baseball team is almost guaranteed to make you look like a moron. Our team has won 3 championships in the last century, two managed by Francoma and one by Johnny Neuron.

 

I should copyright that name.

 

Of course I would have to give a700 a cut of the proceeds.

[Spudboy]

Kimmie, would you like to handle this "fire and desire" and "spark" post for me? I think we've established by now that emotions play no part in a player's hitting.

 

I'll be looking for "Fire" "Desire" and "Spark" dancing with "Mystique" and "Aura" at The Golden Banana.

 

(Nothing personal, Moon. )

 

Lol. Few here get the Golden Banana reference.

[a700hitter]

kimmie, would you like to handle this "fire and desire" and "spark" post for me? I think we've established by now that emotions play no part in a player's hitting.

 

I'll be looking for "fire" "desire" and "spark" dancing with "mystique" and "aura" at the golden banana.

 

(nothing personal, moon. )

lol!!

[moonslav59]

how about we give him some low leverage opportunities for a few games?

 

Fine, but it depends on the match-ups and the next game situation.

 

Is anybody really feeling confident about Barnes right now? He looked like a deer in headlights last night.

[moonslav59]

Kimmie, would you like to handle this "fire and desire" and "spark" post for me? I think we've established by now that emotions play no part in a player's hitting.

 

I'll be looking for "Fire" "Desire" and "Spark" dancing with "Mystique" and "Aura" at The Golden Banana.

 

(Nothing personal, Moon. )

 

None taken.

 

I'm thinking "fire and desire" trumps "ho-humness".

[S5Dewey]

None taken.

 

I'm thinking "fire and desire" trumps "ho-humness".

 

Agreed. Every time!

[Bellhorn04]

Fine, but it depends on the match-ups and the next game situation.

 

Is anybody really feeling confident about Barnes right now? He looked like a deer in headlights last night.

 

Yes, all our relievers except Kimbrel suck, in spite of the great job done by our bullpen this year.

[Kimmi]

Okay, I'll take you up on the offer and let some of my OCD shine...

 

I don't think batting Bogey 3rd and Moreland 4th was to appease their comfort zones. I know Moreland did not have experience in those slots prior to this season. The "comfort" argument doesn't hold any water with Moreland. The other one, JBJ, has been jerked around batting slots more than anyone, so I doubt he feels comfortable in any slot more than another due to experience. Bogey did have experience batting 3rd before this year, and it has been his best slot over his career, but even with a higher than norm SLG batting 3rd, .457 is not what you want from your 3-6 slot hitters.

 

I didn't say that Farrell specifically batted Bogaerts and Moreland in the 3rd and 4th slots to appease their comfort zone, just that it would make more sense to do that than to worry about all the minor tweaks. That's how little difference the tweaks make.

 

FTR, I think there are some players who really prefer a specific slot, but most players really don't have a preference. Managers use 1000 different line ups every year, so that kind of supports that idea. I think for some players, ego/confidence plays a part.

 

I'm not saying that I agree with Farrell's line ups, because I don't, but his batting orders are not the reason why we win or lose games.

[Kimmi]

Is Girardi also an idiot? He sure mismanaged Chapman tonight.

 

Or maybe, the in game decisions of the manager don't make as big a difference as people think they do?

[Kimmi]

In my opinion, being manager of a major league baseball team is almost guaranteed to make you look like a moron. Our team has won 3 championships in the last century, two managed by Francoma and one by Johnny Neuron.

 

Go figure.

 

We need a thread here titled "Games Johnny Neuron Has Cost Us".

[Bellhorn04]

Benintendi has been on fire since Farrell sat him out 2 games to clear his head.

 

Just look at all the accolades rolling in for that.

[Kimmi]

A lousy bullpen (or even a few lousy appearances) will make any manager look like a dope.

 

I like how the manager is supposed to have half the bullpen warming up "in case" the guy on the mound starts to lose it.

 

Good point. A lot of times these 'implosions' happen quickly. You can't always have another guy warming up just in case, especially when the guy in the game is usually pretty good.

[Kimmi]

Kimmie, would you like to handle this "fire and desire" and "spark" post for me? I think we've established by now that emotions play no part in a player's hitting.

 

I'll be looking for "Fire" "Desire" and "Spark" dancing with "Mystique" and "Aura" at The Golden Banana.

 

(Nothing personal, Moon. )

 

You are making a strawman argument. Just stop.

[Kimmi]

Benintendi has been on fire since Farrell sat him out 2 games to clear his head.

 

Just look at all the accolades rolling in for that.

 

As I said in another thread, Farrell gets full credit for Pomeranz.

[cp176]

Lol. Few here get the Golden Banana reference.

 

Are you kidding me? that can't be so! lol

[Maxbialystock]

I try to avoid micro-inspection of a manager's moves.

 

Chapman is one of the best RP'ers in the game. He was throwing 103 mph. He's not let up an HR all year or let a lefty take him deep in 6 years. I can't blame Giradi for Devers' HR anymore than I can blame JF for Betts' dropped fly ball against the wall.

 

Sure, managers are by and large judged by winning or losing, and we're winning right now, but this team is making 2 or more mental mistakes or blunders every game, and that's going to bite us in the ass someday. I just hope it's not the 7th game of a playoff series,

but can't we all imagine us saying, "It's fitting that we lost because a player forgot how many outs there were. We've been making these fundamental mistakes all year long."

 

My other bone of contention with JF was what I called a lack of "fire and desire." I think Devers and Nunez have sparked this team upon their arrival. I'm not giving JF credit for that, but at least that area seems to have improved enough for me.

 

I meant bringing Chapman back for the 10th, which put two Sox on base before a new guy was brought in. And that gave up a walk and a single before finally striking out Ramirez and Devers lining out to left. My guess is the reliever wasn't fully warmed up as was the case with Reed in game one of that series.

 

I can't discount the mistakes, but am not as sure as you we are the only team making them. I also think you have a low threshold for boneheadedness. I'm more forgiving because it's a really long season--162 games of mind-numbing 3 1/2 hour contests dominated by pitchers and hitters doing their little meaningless routines before and after, what, 300 pitches? No wonder players have used amphetamines or whatever.

 

You want to see more fire and desire, which I would argue can't come from the manager and must come from the players. Moreover, it is hard to keep them alive during every moment of those 162 games, 3 1/2 hours each, and those 300 pitches accompanied by pitchers and hitters routines. I'm continually amazed at how the players stay alert in the field and in the dugout, maybe less so in the bullpen.

[Maxbialystock]

One more thing. I respect moonslav's opinion about Farrell and sometimes agree because, while I also defend JF, I have myself said maybe he needs to go. The difference is he focuses on specific things the manager and players do or fail to do, and I basically go by the won-lost record. Plus I honestly think managers have more expertise, stats, bench coach, pitching coach, etc with which to make decisions on pitchers. I assume every move has a good rationale regardless of the outcome.

 

Think about this. When was the last time anyone on talksox or in the media said, "you know, those guys won because the manager made some great moves." Never happen, GI. Managerial credit for winning only comes with a large sample size, normally no less than a season. Funny thing, but many fans were delighted when Francona's contract after 2011. What a bum. Now he is doing a great job in Cleveland.

 

Nevertheless I do enjoy all the comments and insights on this thread/board. Way, way better than that other one. Some great insights. And humor.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Maxbialystock

[Bellhorn04]

I don't get the 'lack of fire and desire' thing. I don't see anybody loafing or missing games for suspect reasons. I see lots of bonehead mistakes on the bases, but that's different. I see lots of celebrating in the dugout which seems to indicate decent team spirit. Don't see the 'lack of fire and desire' thing.

[mvp 78]

One more thing. I respect moonslav's opinion about Farrell and sometimes agree because, while I also defend JF, I have myself said maybe he needs to go. The difference is he focuses on specific things the manager and players do or fail to do, and I basically go by the won-lost record. Plus I honestly think managers have more expertise, stats, bench coach, pitching coach, etc with which to make decisions on pitchers. I assume every move has a good rationale regardless of the outcome.

 

Think about this. When was the last time anyone on talksox or in the media said, "you know, those guys won because the manager made some great moves." Never happen, GI. Managerial credit for winning only comes with a large sample size, normally no less than a season. Funny thing, but many fans were delighted when Francona's contract after 2011. What a bum. Now he is doing a great job in Cleveland.

 

Nevertheless I do enjoy all the comments and insights on this thread/board. Way, way better than that other one. Some great insights. And humor.

 

There have been many times in the gamethreads this year where people have said "great move by Farrell!"

[fxkatt]

Managers in the NL get more credit for wins, because their job is more complex, and because when a pinch hitter wins a game, the manager is often cited in the press.

 

I get a kick out of the Yankee's John Sterling who in almost every game disagrees with or second guesses Girardi's moves. He gets away with this because he has a kind oh-shucks-what-do-really-know way of criticizing, but you can bet that most of his listeners prefer his authority to Joe's.

[Slasher9]

i was a supporter of JF for a long time. i think i am done with him. and i'm not sure why.