Sox hitting??

[cp176]

I say cut Hanley loose.

 

And I will say yet again that I won't be surprised if Moreland is back.

 

I'm not sure what I want to see with respect to Hanley but I do think that his best is behind him. He really has been an inconsistent player for some time now. Moreland has grown on me and if we could have a dh in there who could really hit I think that I would be fine with him at first next year. I think that another big question is what will become of Pedroia going forward? I'm opposed to using him in a dh role and I just don't see his body holding up over the long haul. A regular second baseman needs to be an everyday player. Have to be able to count on him.

[oldtimer]

I'm not sure what I want to see with respect to Hanley but I do think that his best is behind him. He really has been an inconsistent player for some time now. Moreland has grown on me and if we could have a dh in there who could really hit I think that I would be fine with him at first next year. I think that another big question is what will become of Pedroia going forward? I'm opposed to using him in a dh role and I just don't see his body holding up over the long haul. A regular second baseman needs to be an everyday player. Have to be able to count on him.

 

I don't see Pedroia as able to play in more than 90 to 100 games next year but with Nunez available, that would be a place where he could play along with DH at times. Pedroia, when healthy is still an excellent 2nd baseman and he is a seasoned hitter. He is under contract into the future so we need to find the right place for him.

[cp176]

I don't see Pedroia as able to play in more than 90 to 100 games next year but with Nunez available, that would be a place where he could play along with DH at times. Pedroia, when healthy is still an excellent 2nd baseman and he is a seasoned hitter. He is under contract into the future so we need to find the right place for him.

 

I don't disagree with you. I just would be hesitant to use him as a dh if he can't play the field. I don't see his bat as being so valuable that he should be used in that position. If his knee and whatever injuries keep him off the field, I guess I would question whether we might be better off in a perfect world having a dh who is reasonably healthy and who can hit the ball harder and farther than he can. don't get me wrong - I love players like Pedroia and I love what he has done for us but I see his injury pattern limiting his play more and more going forward. I would like to see healthier players on the field for us if possible.

[oldtimer]

I don't disagree with you. I just would be hesitant to use him as a dh if he can't play the field. I don't see his bat as being so valuable that he should be used in that position. If his knee and whatever injuries keep him off the field, I guess I would question whether we might be better off in a perfect world having a dh who is reasonably healthy and who can hit the ball harder and farther than he can. don't get me wrong - I love players like Pedroia and I love what he has done for us but I see his injury pattern limiting his play more and more going forward. I would like to see healthier players on the field for us if possible.

 

I see that as a reasonble position. If we have the guy, we should play who provides the most for the team.

[Kimmi]

2016 is probably the best hitting year we will see out of Hanley. I wish he had finished the season stronger so that his trade value would go up.

 

I agree that Hanley will likely not beat his 2016 production. However, I think he can certainly rebound from this year.

[moonslav59]

We are not going to DFA HRam. It's highly unlikely we can find a trade partner either.

 

HRam has been up and down for much of his last 6-7 years. I'm not giving up on the hope that he can have an up year in 2018. I'm not planning on it, and I think we need to plan on it not happening. I like the idea of signing JD Martinez to DH (maybe some 1B) and Nunez to cover 2B and DH. Under this plan, if HRam does have a good year, we can still play everyone. If not, we can cover it well.

[Kimmi]

I don't see Pedroia as able to play in more than 90 to 100 games next year but with Nunez available, that would be a place where he could play along with DH at times. Pedroia, when healthy is still an excellent 2nd baseman and he is a seasoned hitter. He is under contract into the future so we need to find the right place for him.

 

We will need a bench guy like Nunez who can play virtually every day. Nunez will have plenty of at bats if he is re-signed.

 

Pedroia factoid I read this morning:

 

Gordon Edes

25m

In season where total number of strikeouts will exceed 40,000 for 1st time, Dustin Pedroia K'd 48 times, fewest for any player with 450+ PA

[OH FOY]

I'll give Hanley a little break, wait till Post-Season. See how he performs on the big stage like Papi. He was suppose to be his replacement, basically. Edited October 1, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Kimmi]

We are not going to DFA HRam. It's highly unlikely we can find a trade partner either.

 

HRam has been up and down for much of his last 6-7 years. I'm not giving up on the hope that he can have an up year in 2018. I'm not planning on it, and I think we need to plan on it not happening. I like the idea of signing JD Martinez to DH (maybe some 1B) and Nunez to cover 2B and DH. Under this plan, if HRam does have a good year, we can still play everyone. If not, we can cover it well.

 

If Hanley can get his shoulders truly healthy, and that's a big if, I think he can be a very good player for us next year. I'm pulling for him.

[Bellhorn04]

Hanley is quite capable of performing on the big stage, I have no doubt about that.

[OH FOY]

Hanley had 2 problems this year, that he has to improve on, 1) RISP (.209) 2) Lefthanded Pitchers. (.179) A RH Power hitter in Fenway not to hit Left Handed Pitchers is not good. Even on the road. Edited October 1, 2017 by OH FOY!

[OH FOY]

Would not shock me if Astros Manager, goes to the BP and brings in a Lefty to face Hanley, instead of Righty.

[notin]

Yet, we have a better record than last year.

 

A huge factor there is bullpen. Look at the Sox crazy record in extra innings games. And how many extra innings road wins this team has....

[moonslav59]

If Hanley can get his shoulders truly healthy, and that's a big if, I think he can be a very good player for us next year. I'm pulling for him.

 

I wonder, if he needs surgery.

 

He may forgo it, if the rehab time means he will miss part of 2018 and hurt his chances at vesting the option for 2019.

 

[moonslav59]

A huge factor there is bullpen. Look at the Sox crazy record in extra innings games. And how many extra innings road wins this team has....

 

Shows ho much I know.

 

I felt the pen was our "weakest-not weak- link" going into 2017.

[notin]

Shows ho much I know.

 

I felt the pen was our "weakest-not weak- link" going into 2017.

 

Which was hardly unreasonable in March, given how hittable Kimbrel was last year and that Smith and Thornburg were AWOL..

[moonslav59]

Which was hardly unreasonable in March, given how hittable Kimbrel was last year and that Smith and Thornburg were AWOL..

 

Then, we lost Ross- one of our unsung and most consistent RP'ers in recent years!

 

(I actually made my claim before knowing Thornburg would miss the whole year and while thinking Smith might be back in July.)

[Larry Cook]

Smith's arm looks a little tired. Pitches are less sharp.

[moonslav59]

Smith's arm looks a little tired. Pitches are less sharp.

 

Hard to tell with such a tiny sample size.

[OH FOY]

In this series coming up, the Sox got to hit. Game 1 is the big one. Got to win that.

[cp176]

Hard to tell with such a tiny sample size.

 

Smith was pitching in a freaking pouring rain storm! I think that he will be just fine.

[SoxHop]

Been meaning to ask all of you this. Xander is pretty strange, it seems he has a second half swoon. But this year most of that seemed to me because he was hurt. I think he slumped a but just before he got hurt, and then just couldn't hit anything after he was hurt until a couple weeks ago.

 

What's your take on what happened there?

[moonslav59]

Smith was pitching in a freaking pouring rain storm! I think that he will be just fine.

 

I think so, too. I have him as our 5 man behind Kimbrel, Price, Reed and Kelly (in that order).

[moonslav59]

Been meaning to ask all of you this. Xander is pretty strange, it seems he has a second half swoon. But this year most of that seemed to me because he was hurt. I think he slumped a but just before he got hurt, and then just couldn't hit anything after he was hurt until a couple weeks ago.

 

What's your take on what happened there?

 

I'm hopeful it was injury-related and not a prolonged slump.

 

We could really use the "old" Bogey, since nobody else seems to be returning to 2016 form.

[oldtimer]

I'm hopeful it was injury-related and not a prolonged slump.

 

We could really use the "old" Bogey, since nobody else seems to be returning to 2016 form.

 

He seems to have made at least a partial recovery in the past couple of weeks. Lets hope so as we do need to good hitting Bogey in the playoffs, especially since we will be facing the best pitchers they have.

[oldtimer]

The Sox are not alone in using a regular season batting strategy which attempts to build up pitch count on the starting pitcher and sometimes relievers. That is done by taking pitches early in the count and fouling off balls. The presumed advantages are to see a lot of pitches and tire out the starter early and get to the weaker middle relievers. The disadvantage of this approach is the batter will often take pitches on the plate early and put themselves in a hole with counts like 0 and 1 or 1 and 2, for instance. We have seen the result with batters then swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. In this crazy world of current baseball, a strikeout where the batter has extended to 7 or more pitches is considered a quality at bat.

One wonders if in the playoffs, with a team taking only its best 3 starters and best quality relievers if this approach makes sense, or whether a more aggressive approach would work better. I say that realizing hitting is a very difficult art and that a batter needs to see release point, arm angle, timing to the plate, spin rate and likely position of the ball as it crosses the plate, all in a split second. If a batter hasn’t seen a pitcher recently, he might have to take a pitch or two to get a better feel of the many factors involved. I can’t vouch for this, as I have never faced a pitcher throwing over the low to mid 80’s, but I am told that at 95 and above, the seams look like a blur and spin rate is impossible to determine. Second or third times around a batter has all the information he will get, so it would seem a more aggressive approach would be in order.

[S5Dewey]

I have never faced a pitcher throwing over the low to mid 80’s, but I am told that at 95 and above, the seams look like a blur and spin rate is impossible to determine.

Like you, I've never faced a pitcher who's throwing above the mid 80's, but I've had a good angle to see a guy throwing 95 (or 97 depending on which 'gun' you believe) and you're right. The human eye doesn't move in a sweeping motion, it moves step by step and it can't keep up with a baseball moving more than about 94-95 mph. After that speed the entire ball looks like a blur, and the faster the pitch is coming the longer the blur is.

 

That's probably why Kimbrel is so hard to hit - he can not only throw 100 mph, he can make it move at that speed and the spin can't be determined. Or at least I couldn't see it and at that time (!) I had Ted Williams' vision of 10/20, I could see at 20' what 'normal' people could see at 10'. Unfortunately that's the only thing Ted and I had in common.

[cp176]

Like you, I've never faced a pitcher who's throwing above the mid 80's, but I've had a good angle to see a guy throwing 95 (or 97 depending on which 'gun' you believe) and you're right. The human eye doesn't move in a sweeping motion, it moves step by step and it can't keep up with a baseball moving more than about 94-95 mph. After that speed the entire ball looks like a blur, and the faster the pitch is coming the longer the blur is.

 

That's probably why Kimbrel is so hard to hit - he can not only throw 100 mph, he can make it move at that speed and the spin can't be determined. Or at least I couldn't see it and at that time (!) I had Ted Williams' vision of 10/20, I could see at 20' what 'normal' people could see at 10'. Unfortunately that's the only thing Ted and I had in common.

 

Wait a minute - You and Ted both loved the State of Maine. I saw one 90+ mph fastball. (actually 3 different trips to the plate)- He hit the batter in front of me 3 consecutive times. I struck out 3 consecutive times just as quickly as I could!

I have a son-in-law who got to face Manny Delcarmen in high school. he said that that was quite the treat. not

[moonslav59]

The Sox are not alone in using a regular season batting strategy which attempts to build up pitch count on the starting pitcher and sometimes relievers. That is done by taking pitches early in the count and fouling off balls. The presumed advantages are to see a lot of pitches and tire out the starter early and get to the weaker middle relievers. The disadvantage of this approach is the batter will often take pitches on the plate early and put themselves in a hole with counts like 0 and 1 or 1 and 2, for instance. We have seen the result with batters then swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. In this crazy world of current baseball, a strikeout where the batter has extended to 7 or more pitches is considered a quality at bat.

One wonders if in the playoffs, with a team taking only its best 3 starters and best quality relievers if this approach makes sense, or whether a more aggressive approach would work better. I say that realizing hitting is a very difficult art and that a batter needs to see release point, arm angle, timing to the plate, spin rate and likely position of the ball as it crosses the plate, all in a split second. If a batter hasn’t seen a pitcher recently, he might have to take a pitch or two to get a better feel of the many factors involved. I can’t vouch for this, as I have never faced a pitcher throwing over the low to mid 80’s, but I am told that at 95 and above, the seams look like a blur and spin rate is impossible to determine. Second or third times around a batter has all the information he will get, so it would seem a more aggressive approach would be in order.

 

I think we need to start varying our approach, so we aren't so predictable. Easier said than done, I know.

Edited October 2, 2017 by moonslav59

[Larry Cook]

We won 93 games with our current strategy. Can they really just change it up at the drop of a hat?

 

Our guys saw tons of good pitches to hit this season, but did not take advantage of it.

 

Mookie alone, must have popped up at least a dozen pitches in 2017 that in 2016, he would have turned into Taters!

 

Something was off this year with most of our guys. I think it was injuries. But confidence also seemed to be lacking. Can you fix that in 4 days? I don't think so.