Sox hitting??

[Kimmi]

0 men on base, he can only drive himself in. Tragic waste of resources

 

My preference would be batting Mookie 4th.

 

That said, having Mookie in the lead off spot is better than having him in the 3rd spot.

[cp176]

0 men on base, he can only drive himself in. Tragic waste of resources

 

With on most occasions, nothing coming up in front of him, wouldn't you love to see him have the opportunity to just knock a couple in. I would have in that 3rd spot for sure.

[moonslav59]

With on most occasions, nothing coming up in front of him, wouldn't you love to see him have the opportunity to just knock a couple in. I would have in that 3rd spot for sure.

 

Clearly you get more RBI chances batting 3rd than 1st, and even if you don't count the first inning.

 

Betts isn't our best OBP guy either! It makes no sense putting your power guy up first, if he isn't even a top 2 OBP guy.

[Bellhorn04]

Clearly you get more RBI chances batting 3rd than 1st, and even if you don't count the first inning.

 

Betts isn't our best OBP guy either! It makes no sense putting your power guy up first, if he isn't even a top 2 OBP guy.

 

He's a few points out of being 2nd in OBP now. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

[moonslav59]

He's a few points out of being 2nd in OBP now. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

There's no compelling reason to have Betts bat first. The fact that we started scoring more once we moved him to the 1 slot not only proves nothing, it has nothing to do with what is to come.

 

We have better OBP players than Betts- three of them. Putting one of them up first loses nothing in terms of the most important part of batting 1st--getting on base.

 

We have very few players on the team who have the power Bets has. Only Betts and JBJ have a SLG over .470. In this day and age, even .470 is not all that great. Moving Betts and JBJ to the 3-4 slots maximizes the skill needed in those slots- SLG and OBP.

 

Also, how am I makinng a mountain out of a molehill when I said moving Betts is "not urgent"? I'm not screaming from the mountain tops that this is unacceptable.

 

I think moving JBj to 3 or 4 is more important.

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by moonslav59

[Emp9]

There's no compelling reason to have Betts bat first. The fact that we started scoring more once we moved him to the 1 slot not only proves nothing, it has nothing to do with what is to come.

 

 

And even THAT took a long time. That didn't happen instantly. So I agree.

[cp176]

There's no compelling reason to have Betts bat first. The fact that we started scoring more once we moved him to the 1 slot not only proves nothing, it has nothing to do with what is to come.

 

We have better OBP players than Betts- three of them. Putting one of them up first loses nothing in terms of the most important part of batting 1st--getting on base.

 

We have very few players on the team who have the power Bets has. Only Betts and JBJ have a SLG over .470. In this day and age, even .470 is not all that great. Moving Betts and JBJ to the 3-4 slots maximizes the skill needed in those slots- SLG and OBP.

 

Also, how am I makinng a mountain out of a molehill when I said moving Betts is "not urgent"? I'm not screaming from the mountain tops that this is unacceptable.

 

I think moving JBj to 3 or 4 is more important.

 

 

i think that it is "much more urgent" then what some show the stats say. it would be one thing if we had some solid contact hitters sitting at the back of our lineup. we don't. i think that it is very important to have have your potential run producers in places where they might actually knock a few guys in.

[Bellhorn04]

There's no compelling reason to have Betts bat first. The fact that we started scoring more once we moved him to the 1 slot not only proves nothing, it has nothing to do with what is to come.

 

We have better OBP players than Betts- three of them. Putting one of them up first loses nothing in terms of the most important part of batting 1st--getting on base.

 

We have very few players on the team who have the power Bets has. Only Betts and JBJ have a SLG over .470. In this day and age, even .470 is not all that great. Moving Betts and JBJ to the 3-4 slots maximizes the skill needed in those slots- SLG and OBP.

 

Also, how am I makinng a mountain out of a molehill when I said moving Betts is "not urgent"? I'm not screaming from the mountain tops that this is unacceptable.

 

I think moving JBj to 3 or 4 is more important.

 

 

There's one very compelling reason to have Mookie up first. It maximizes his plate appearances. How many plate appearances will you take away by moving him from first to fourth?

 

The only other legitimate candidate for leadoff is Bogaerts. And you probably wouldn't bet a lot that he'll have a higher OBP than Mookie the rest of the way.

 

Pedroia leads in OBP but his baserunning is horrible.

[Emp9]

Baseball IS random, but doubling down on RANDOM and claiming it's a statistical FACT leaves me extremely skeptical. Baseball is already random enough without making it MORE random. Pitchers randomly miss thier spot, randomly choose which pitch to throw even , and randomly throw bad pitches all the f***ing time. You don't need a random lineup as well to take advantage of this randomness. You're better off going by the ACTUAL NUMBERS and maximizing the lineup the best you can. Mookie Betts should NOT be leading-off.

[moonslav59]

i think that it is "much more urgent" then what some show the stats say. it would be one thing if we had some solid contact hitters sitting at the back of our lineup. we don't. i think that it is very important to have have your potential run producers in places where they might actually knock a few guys in.

 

Yes, and I happen to believe that Bogey and Pedey are at least equal to Betts in getting on base. I feel they are both better, even if by just a small amount. Bogey has very little HR power. Pedey has shown he does very well batting 1st or 2nd. My point is that we lose nothing batting Bogey and Pedey 1 and 2, except for the times when your lead off hitter comes up in the bottom of the ninth and you need an HR.

 

The bigger gain comes from putting Betts and JBJ in batting slots that will mazimize their RBI potential. More RBIs means more runs scored.

 

Moreland has done a great job for us, but he is battling an injury and perhaps fatigue. HRam seems to be heating up a little, but I still like Betts and JBj up 3 and 4. Flip flop them anyway, but just bat them 3 & 4. Is it urgent they do so right away? Probably not, but why wait? JBj is hot as hell and Betts is a known second half hitter.

 

I'd go with maybe this...

 

1) Bogey

2) Pedey

3) JBJ

4) Betts

5) HRam

6) Moreland/Travis

7) Beni

8) Vaz/Leon

9) Lin/Marrero

 

I'd find a way to get Young into the line-up everytime we face a lefty starter. I might flip-flop a couiple players here and there based on splits or pitching match-ups.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Baseball IS random, but doubling down on RANDOM and claiming it's a statistical FACT leaves me extremely skeptical. Baseball is already random enough without making it MORE random. Pitchers randomly miss thier spot, randomly choose which pitch to throw even , and randomly throw bad pitches all the f***ing time. You don't need a random lineup as well to take advantage of this randomness. You're better off going by the ACTUAL NUMBERS and maximizing the lineup the best you can. Mookie Betts should NOT be leading-off.

 

You're backing your opinion up with NOTHING.

[Station 13]

I think till we get a more traditional slugger to hit 3rd, Pharaoh will just keep the lineup as is.

[moonslav59]

I think till we get a more traditional slugger to hit 3rd, Pharaoh will just keep the lineup as is.

 

Betts hit 35 HRs last year. He's on pace for 26 this year, not even factoring in his second half history.

 

He may not look like a traditional slugger, but he's the best slugger we have (along with JBJ).

 

I agree that Farrell may never make a change.

[oldtimer]

Betts hit 35 HRs last year. He's on pace for 26 this year, not even factoring in his second half history.

 

He may not look like a traditional slugger, but he's the best slugger we have (along with JBJ).

 

I agree that Farrell may never make a change.

 

More ebb and flow of players today with Betts having a monster day (2HR and 8RBI and counting). Today he was lucky to have Lin and Marrero hitting well behind him. I would prefer Mookie batting 3rd with Bogey and Pedie before him.

 

Funny how just a while ago people were worried about Betts hitting and those that urged patience are happy for him. Of course the same might be said for JBJ, now over 280 and Hanley seemingly hitting with a vengence. Hanley should be 4th or 5th in the lineup and JBJ is good enough to hit in either of those positions as well.

 

Now we need a little patience with Beni and Bogey. They are both too good of hitters to be in a prolonged slump.

[moonslav59]

More ebb and flow of players today with Betts having a monster day (2HR and 8RBI and counting). Today he was lucky to have Lin and Marrero hitting well behind him. I would prefer Mookie batting 3rd with Bogey and Pedie before him.

 

Funny how just a while ago people were worried about Betts hitting and those that urged patience are happy for him. Of course the same might be said for JBJ, now over 280 and Hanley seemingly hitting with a vengence. Hanley should be 4th or 5th in the lineup and JBJ is good enough to hit in either of those positions as well.

 

Now we need a little patience with Beni and Bogey. They are both too good of hitters to be in a prolonged slump.

 

Betts has shown he's a second half hitter. The second half has begun. Move him down to 3 or 4.

 

Move JBJ to 4 or 5.

 

I'm not going to go nutty, if they don't do it, but in my opinion, they should do it ASAP.

 

[Kimmi]

Baseball IS random, but doubling down on RANDOM and claiming it's a statistical FACT leaves me extremely skeptical. Baseball is already random enough without making it MORE random. Pitchers randomly miss thier spot, randomly choose which pitch to throw even , and randomly throw bad pitches all the f***ing time. You don't need a random lineup as well to take advantage of this randomness. You're better off going by the ACTUAL NUMBERS and maximizing the lineup the best you can. Mookie Betts should NOT be leading-off.

 

The actual numbers say that your best hitters should be batting 1st or 4th, and that your 5th best hitter should be batting 3rd.

[Kimmi]

On a different note, Hanley may be getting his act together. He's been going more up the middle rather than trying to pull everything. Hopefully, that bodes well for our offense going forward.

[Emp9]

You're backing your opinion up with NOTHING.

 

No, I'm actually backing up my opinion. It's you and some others that are clinging on to a theory that can't ever actually be proven unless you have a f***ing time machine. DO YOU have a time machine? If so, help me out..... I'd like to do Senior year over.

[Emp9]

The actual numbers say that your best hitters should be batting 1st or 4th, and that your 5th best hitter should be batting 3rd.

 

Then 4th then. I'll compromise.

[d-money]

Marrero' s starting to rake!!! Nice to see!

[SoxHop]

On a different note, Hanley may be getting his act together. He's been going more up the middle rather than trying to pull everything. Hopefully, that bodes well for our offense going forward.

 

Get going Hanley........ we need a him to drive some runs in..............

[cp176]

So statistical data says that it is great if you have your best rbi guy hitting either 1st or 4th but you should not have him hitting 3rd? what goes around comes around - i'm sticking with what I believe to be true no matter how outdated or traditional or whatever it might seem. Your best rbi guy hits third.

[moonslav59]

The actual numbers say that your best hitters should be batting 1st or 4th, and that your 5th best hitter should be batting 3rd.

 

Our 5th best hitter right now is maybe HRam, Pedey or Moreland.

 

Betts 4th.

 

Bogey 1st.

 

JBJ 5th.

 

Going by your data on line-ups.

[moonslav59]

Marrero' s starting to rake!!! Nice to see!

 

The more I bash his offensive skills, the better he does, so here I go:

 

Marrero sucks on offense!

 

Go Devon!!

 

GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moonslav59]

So statistical data says that it is great if you have your best rbi guy hitting either 1st or 4th but you should not have him hitting 3rd? what goes around comes around - i'm sticking with what I believe to be true no matter how outdated or traditional or whatever it might seem. Your best rbi guy hits third.

 

I've always felt your best overall hitter (SLG, OBP, BA) should bat 3rd.

 

I'm not doubting Kimmi's research on the matter, so I'm fine with Betts up 4th.

 

My own choice would be...

 

vs RHPs:

1) Pedey (better than 2nd to limit his GIDPs)

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) JBJ

5) HRam

6) Moreland

7) Beni

8) Leon

9) Marrero

 

vs LHPs

1) Pedey

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) HRam (1B or DH)

5) JBJ

6) Young (DH or LF)

7) Travis (1B), Moreland (1B) or Beni (LF)

8) Vaz

9) Marrero or Lin

 

Like I said though, I'm fine with Betts 4th and JBJ 5th. I'm not feeling strongly about Bogey/Pedey being 1-2 or 2-1.

HRam might do well up 3rd. Maybe Young could bat 3rd vs LHPs.

[oldtimer]

Our 5th best hitter right now is maybe HRam, Pedey or Moreland.

 

Betts 4th.

 

Bogey 1st.

 

JBJ 5th.

 

Going by your data on line-ups.

 

When you say now, do you meet at this current date? In reality, while Bogaerts has the highest average, he is in a slump of sorts and no doubt will come out of it, but he isn't hitting the best on the team right now.

[moonslav59]

When you say now, do you meet at this current date? In reality, while Bogaerts has the highest average, he is in a slump of sorts and no doubt will come out of it, but he isn't hitting the best on the team right now.

 

I do consider slumps and hot streaks and most recent numbers to some extent, but not as much as you do.

 

While Bogey has been struggling, his OBP is still .340 over the last 14 days. With a day of rest today, I expect him to continue being a top 3 OBP player on our team. bat him 1st or second. If he continues to slump, then move him down and maybe put Beni, Young or even HRam or JBJ up 2nd.

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by moonslav59

[Maxbialystock]

OK, gang, it was just the Blue Jays--you know, last in the AL East. Nevertheless, it is possible that we are getting close to the point where we can declare that this stupid thread (which I started) has worn out its welcome. Platooning Lin and Marrero seems to work, so does Vazquez and Leon. HanRam might indeed be coming around. Of the four killer B's, Betts and the now steady (who woulda thunk that?) JBJ have rocketed past Bogaerts and could both be headed toward .900 OPS's, and Bogaerts, Pedroia, and Moreland are all doing fine if not great.

 

I have argued ad nauseum that Ortiz left a big hole. I still think that, but now agree with Kimmi and others that just maybe the Sox can fill that hole with multiple contributions. Nevertheless I will ask the obvious question, should DD still go after a big bat to get us through the 2d half of the season (something I have been opposed to and obviously still am)?

[oldtimer]

OK, gang, it was just the Blue Jays--you know, last in the AL East. Nevertheless, it is possible that we are getting close to the point where we can declare that this stupid thread (which I started) has worn out its welcome. Platooning Lin and Marrero seems to work, so does Vazquez and Leon. HanRam might indeed be coming around. Of the four killer B's, Betts and the now steady (who woulda thunk that?) JBJ have rocketed past Bogaerts and could both be headed toward .900 OPS's, and Bogaerts, Pedroia, and Moreland are all doing fine if not great.

 

I have argued ad nauseum that Ortiz left a big hole. I still think that, but now agree with Kimmi and others that just maybe the Sox can fill that hole with multiple contributions. Nevertheless I will ask the obvious question, should DD still go after a big bat to get us through the 2d half of the season (something I have been opposed to and obviously still am)?

 

If you look at the Blue Jays, with some folks we thought we wanted a week or so ago, only Smoak is really hitting. Its just a cautionary thought to remind oneself that getting help is not as easy as picking up a guy who has doe well in the past.

[Maxbialystock]

I do consider slumps and hot streaks and most recent numbers to some extent, but not as much as you do.

 

While Bogey has been struggling, his OBP is still .340 over the last 14 days. With a day of rest today, I expect him to continue being a top 3 OBP player on our team. bat him 1st or second. If he continues to slump, then move him down and maybe put Beni, Young or even HRam or JBJ up 2nd.

 

 

In round numbers JBJ's OPS was .600 in April, .800 in May, and 1.000 in June. His three OBP's were .271, .341, and .431. He had 5 dingers in May, but just 4 in June. He is hitting to all fields. These data points tell me he is becoming a real hitter and far less likely to regress into the inconsistencies we saw in 2015 and 2016.

 

Bogaerts on the other hand seems to me to over-rely on his truly remarkable hand-eye coordination with the bat. He can take bad swings and still make contact, sometimes solid contact with the ball, so he has not worked on becoming an intelligent hitter. I think he is awful at pitch recognition, for example. In his defense, I would add that I think he probably works very hard on his defense because he loves being SS and knows he lacks range, etc.