2017 Rotation Discussion

[Spudboy]

Yes, or get someone to distract them by doing something even more outlandish.

 

Maybe Pablow could go on a four day eating binge at Boston restaurants.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Pablow could go on a four day eating binge at Boston restaurants.

 

LOL, or win the hot dog eating contest.

[Kimmi]

Maybe Pablow could go on a four day eating binge at Boston restaurants.

 

LOL I was going to respond to Moon's post with "Where is Pablo when you need him?"

[Nick]

Our two best players right now are Sale and Kimbrel. Moreland seems adequate.

 

What would be the recovery time for E Rod if he has a surgery in October?

[moonslav59]

Our two best players right now are Sale and Kimbrel. Moreland seems adequate.

 

Moreland has been a bright spot in the line-up that seems to be underperforming.

 

According to fangraphs, here are our current leaders in WAR:

3.6 Sale

2.2 Betts

2.2 Bogey

1.9 Kimbrel

1.2 Porcello

1.1 JBJ

1.1 Moreland

1.0 Pomeranz

0.8 ERod

0.7 Hembree

0.6 Beni

0.6 Pedey

0.4 Kelly

0.4 Vaz

0.3 Barnes

0.3 Scott

0.1 Leon

0.1 Johnson

0.1 Kendrick

0.0 HRam

0.0 Ross

0.0 Abad & Boyer

-0.1 Price

-0.2 Young

-0.4 Pablo

[moonslav59]

According to Baseball Reference:

2.5 Sale

2.3 Betts

1.7 JBJ

1.7 Kimbrel

1.3 Bogey

1.3 ERod

1.2 Moreland

1.1 Kelly

0.8 Pomeranz

0.6 Beni

0.5 Johnson

0.4 Pedey & Barnes

0.3 Travis

0.2 HRam, Abad & Marco

0.1 Porcello, Hembree, Workman, Boyer,Vaz, Leon, d'Arnaud

0.0 Price

-0.1 Young & Ross

-0.2 Marrero & Rutledge

-0.5 Kendrick

-0.9 Pablo

[Maxbialystock]

Since this thread is about the rotation, I thought I would insert an observation about one member of the rotation--Pomeranz. I have watched him pitch a bunch of innings and games this year and remain astonished--there is no other word for it--that he is a lefty who simply can't throw a changeup. Now I think most of us have seen the most recent version of Andrew Miller, who used to pitch for the Sox and is now I think with Cleveland. He too only has two pitches, but they are both excellent pitches--a hard fastball and a great slider--that make him very effective as a reliever.

 

Pomeranz basically uses his so-so fastball--91 mph--and a knuckle curve that does not seem to me to break sharply downward. That's basically his repertoire, and he is a starter. He does have a changeup, I think, but doesn't throw it but maybe once a game. He might have a slider, I'm not sure.

 

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it's really hard to get away with a so-so fast ball, ditto knuckle curve, against a lineup up of all righty bats, which is what the Tigers had yesterday. He went 4.1 innings and gave up 6 runs. Season to date, he has started 12 games with 4 quality starts and an average of 5 innings per game.

 

Thoughts from anyone else?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Thoughts from anyone else?

 

Dombrowski traded a top MLB pitching prospect for a bottom of the rotation starter--a terrible use of a valuable trade chip.

[moonslav59]

These were the reasons I wanted Wright as our 5th starter and Pom as our "long man".

 

Too bad Wright got hurt.

[Nick]

It's pretty frustrating," Pomeranz admitted. "I got out of the first bases loaded one (in the fourth), and then I got taken out in the next bases loaded one (during the fifth). Obviously you want to get out of all those situations and stay in there and stay in the game as long as I can. But it's part of the game."

Is he really this stupid?

[oldtimer]

Since this thread is about the rotation, I thought I would insert an observation about one member of the rotation--Pomeranz. I have watched him pitch a bunch of innings and games this year and remain astonished--there is no other word for it--that he is a lefty who simply can't throw a changeup. Now I think most of us have seen the most recent version of Andrew Miller, who used to pitch for the Sox and is now I think with Cleveland. He too only has two pitches, but they are both excellent pitches--a hard fastball and a great slider--that make him very effective as a reliever.

 

Pomeranz basically uses his so-so fastball--91 mph--and a knuckle curve that does not seem to me to break sharply downward. That's basically his repertoire, and he is a starter. He does have a changeup, I think, but doesn't throw it but maybe once a game. He might have a slider, I'm not sure.

 

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it's really hard to get away with a so-so fast ball, ditto knuckle curve, against a lineup up of all righty bats, which is what the Tigers had yesterday. He went 4.1 innings and gave up 6 runs. Season to date, he has started 12 games with 4 quality starts and an average of 5 innings per game.

 

Thoughts from anyone else?

 

Last night was a terrible matchup for Pomeranz as the Tigers put 7 good right handed hitters against him. He did worm out of a bases loaded situation with no one out but he just wasn't a good matchup since of his two pitches, they could sit on one and get it. He also seemed wild high with his fastball so just wasted many pitches that no one would swing at. Right now he is our 5th starter and JF has to try to find suitable matchups for him.

[Maxbialystock]

It's pretty frustrating," Pomeranz admitted. "I got out of the first bases loaded one (in the fourth), and then I got taken out in the next bases loaded one (during the fifth). Obviously you want to get out of all those situations and stay in there and stay in the game as long as I can. But it's part of the game."

Is he really this stupid?

 

The mind does indeed boggle.

[Jack Flap]

Dombrowski traded a top MLB pitching prospect for a bottom of the rotation starter--a terrible use of a valuable trade chip.

 

Yup.

[Kimmi]

Since this thread is about the rotation, I thought I would insert an observation about one member of the rotation--Pomeranz. I have watched him pitch a bunch of innings and games this year and remain astonished--there is no other word for it--that he is a lefty who simply can't throw a changeup. Now I think most of us have seen the most recent version of Andrew Miller, who used to pitch for the Sox and is now I think with Cleveland. He too only has two pitches, but they are both excellent pitches--a hard fastball and a great slider--that make him very effective as a reliever.

 

Pomeranz basically uses his so-so fastball--91 mph--and a knuckle curve that does not seem to me to break sharply downward. That's basically his repertoire, and he is a starter. He does have a changeup, I think, but doesn't throw it but maybe once a game. He might have a slider, I'm not sure.

 

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it's really hard to get away with a so-so fast ball, ditto knuckle curve, against a lineup up of all righty bats, which is what the Tigers had yesterday. He went 4.1 innings and gave up 6 runs. Season to date, he has started 12 games with 4 quality starts and an average of 5 innings per game.

 

Thoughts from anyone else?

 

Here are some thoughts from my girl Jen:

 

Jen McCaffrey‏ @jcmccaffrey 5h5 hours ago

 

Pomeranz threw seven cutters tonight. Threw 12 on 5/25 and his line was 6 IP, 4 H, 2 R. He threw 14 on 5/31 and his line was 7 IP, 7 H, 1R

 

Farrell said Pomeranz didn't throw many cutters at start of season because of pressure it puts on forearm. Wonder if that's surfaced again

 

It could also be part of his game plan, but it's curious that when he started throwing more cutters he did well. Why not stick with it...

 

You do have to wonder why he doesn't throw that cutter more often. The question of a lingering injury is always present.

[Kimmi]

Dombrowski traded a top MLB pitching prospect for a bottom of the rotation starter--a terrible use of a valuable trade chip.

 

Yup.

 

#bringbackben

[a700hitter]

#bringbackben

Ben dismantled a Championship starting staff and brought back nothing. I hope he enjoys getting coffee in Toronto.

[moonslav59]

It's pretty frustrating," Pomeranz admitted. "I got out of the first bases loaded one (in the fourth), and then I got taken out in the next bases loaded one (during the fifth). Obviously you want to get out of all those situations and stay in there and stay in the game as long as I can. But it's part of the game."

Is he really this stupid?

 

It appears so.

[Maxbialystock]

It appears so.

 

I dislike Pomeranz intensely. To me he looks soft. Plus he basically depend on 2 pitches, neither of which is outstanding. And he doesn't have great control.

 

Nevertheless, stupidity--which you two agree on--might be a strength for him. Maybe he's too dumb to say, "I have no business in the Bigs because maxbialystock (and others) think I don't have much going for me. My manager is right, I don't deserve to stay in games when the situation is tough.

[moonslav59]

I dislike Pomeranz intensely. To me he looks soft. Plus he basically depend on 2 pitches, neither of which is outstanding. And he doesn't have great control.

 

Nevertheless, stupidity--which you two agree on--might be a strength for him. Maybe he's too dumb to say, "I have no business in the Bigs because maxbialystock (and others) think I don't have much going for me. My manager is right, I don't deserve to stay in games when the situation is tough.

 

I think he might make a good to great 2-3 inning RP'er someday, but right now, we have nobody beter to take a rotation slot away from him.

 

4.2 innings might just have to do.

[cp176]

I dislike Pomeranz intensely. To me he looks soft. Plus he basically depend on 2 pitches, neither of which is outstanding. And he doesn't have great control.

 

Nevertheless, stupidity--which you two agree on--might be a strength for him. Maybe he's too dumb to say, "I have no business in the Bigs because maxbialystock (and others) think I don't have much going for me. My manager is right, I don't deserve to stay in games when the situation is tough.

 

Even though I have defended Pomeranz on many occasions, i still don't like what he has given us to date much. he might be a little soft as you say but I'm not sure that he really is much softer than E-Rod.

[Nick]

Even though I have defended Pomeranz on many occasions, i still don't like what he has given us to date much. he might be a little soft as you say but I'm not sure that he really is much softer than E-Rod.

 

It's amazing to me that Sale, Porcello and Price all show toughness on the mound and you can feel it. I don't see that from Pom. He just seems to be oblivious to why he's on the mound. It's one thing to lack talent, it's another not to have mental toughness.

[Maxbialystock]

52 pages now on the rotation and 0 pages on the bullpen.

[Nick]

52 pages now on the rotation and 0 pages on the bullpen.

 

Rotation is a big concern. Bullpen not so much. And Carson Smith maybe returning soon. Plus Pom is a long reliever that just happens to start the game.

 

Stat of the Day...

 

Henry Owens....4.2 IP 4 hits, 8 walks, only 1 run given up.....Commissioner may suspend him for detrimental to desire for shorter games.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Nick

[mvp 78]

52 pages now on the rotation and 0 pages on the bullpen.

 

Feel free to start one if you want.

[Maxbialystock]

Feel free to start one if you want.

 

Nah. As someone else said, the bullpen ain't the problem and wasn't last year either.

[S5Dewey]

Nah. As someone else said, the bullpen ain't the problem and wasn't last year either.

 

And we thought in March that our rotation was set and the pen would be the problem. How quickly things change.

[Nick]

Nah. As someone else said, the bullpen ain't the problem and wasn't last year either.

 

What the hell is exactly wrong with Thornburg? Surgery is not recommended.

 

Did he tell the doctor that it hurts when he threw and the doctor told him to quit throwing?

[Emp9]

And we thought in March that our rotation was set and the pen would be the problem. How quickly things change.

 

Price is a work in progress right now. One inning he looks ace-like, the next inning he has trouble with his command. I hope he can put it all together at some point soon. E-Rod's injury doesn't seem too serious (we've heard this before I know) but maybe it will wind-up being a good thing that he can rest for a while because we're definitely going to need his arm for the 2nd half. Porcello needs to figure out his Sinker, that's his lone homework assignment... it's just one pitch but it's his best one. I'd hate to think this is insurmountable for him. He's figured it out before. It's frustrating because his problems stem from just one pitch, one adjustment or tweak. He fixes that, he's golden. Sale is Sale. Pom is Pom.

[mvp 78]

And we thought in March that our rotation was set and the pen would be the problem. How quickly things change.

 

With Price, Wright and Pom's injuries? I don't remember people thinking we were set. There was a big question mark surrounding the health of this staff.

[moonslav59]

What the hell is exactly wrong with Thornburg? Surgery is not recommended.

 

Did he tell the doctor that it hurts when he threw and the doctor told him to quit throwing?

 

I don't think his injury has ever been diagnosed.

 

They don't know what is wrong.

 

He was just told to stop his long throw rehab therapy.

 

He's probably done for the year.

 

Carson Smith should start his rehab pitching in the minors soon. He may be 30 days away.