25 Man Roster

[cp176]

Yes, moon has brought it up a few hundred times.

 

really - so you say - are you sure it was him?

[cp176]

really - so you say - are you sure it was him?

 

 

lol - sarcasm

[mvp 78]

I would also promote him if Holt goes down.

 

No doubt.

[moonslav59]

Yes, moon has brought it up a few hundred times.

 

Maybe just one hundred.

 

 

As I recall, I was all alone the first time I brought it up. Now, it seems like a few stragglers are joining the position.

 

Again, I would not trade him for someone like Abad or the like, but I would trade him with Owens for a Thornburg or Ziegler type with 2+ years of team control.

 

If that's too pie-in-the-sky, then at worst, it shows I do NOT undervalue Holt.

 

As far as I know, I've never heard any names linked to trade offers for Holt, so it's hard to judge how highly the Sox or I value Holt.

 

[moonslav59]

No doubt.

 

Why?

 

I thought you said he shouldn't be called up unless he plays FT for a guy out for the season. Doesn't he need to play everyday until the "training wheels are really coming off"?

[Emp9]

Maybe just one hundred.

 

 

As I recall, I was all alone the first time I brought it up. Now, it seems like a few stragglers are joining the position.

 

Again, I would not trade him for someone like Abad or the like, but I would trade him with Owens for a Thornburg or Ziegler type with 2+ years of team control.

 

If that's too pie-in-the-sky, then at worst, it shows I do NOT undervalue Holt.

 

As far as I know, I've never heard any names linked to trade offers for Holt, so it's hard to judge how highly the Sox or I value Holt.

 

 

"As I recall, I was all alone the first time I brought it up."

 

Naw, I was all for trading him in the offseason coming off his AS appearance when his stock was sky high ( on BDC).

[cp176]

"As I recall, I was all alone the first time I brought it up."

 

Naw, I was all for trading him in the offseason coming off his AS appearance when his stock was sky high ( on BDC).

 

I quite honestly would and would have been in favor of trading him but I just don't think that we need what he would bring in return. We have plenty of bats and balls. Be realistic. He does his job - he does what he is asked to do and he does it well. No more no less. Trade ideas are just wonderful but unfortunately for the dreamers you have to have another interested party.

[Fisk]

I quite honestly would and would have been in favor of trading him but I just don't think that we need what he would bring in return. We have plenty of bats and balls. Be realistic. He does his job - he does what he is asked to do and he does it well. No more no less. Trade ideas are just wonderful but unfortunately for the dreamers you have to have another interested party.

 

I'm guessing there would be a lot of interest because of his versatility.

[Bellhorn04]

I quite honestly would and would have been in favor of trading him but I just don't think that we need what he would bring in return. We have plenty of bats and balls. Be realistic. He does his job - he does what he is asked to do and he does it well. No more no less. Trade ideas are just wonderful but unfortunately for the dreamers you have to have another interested party.

 

And once in a while you have to say, well, maybe the team's management has its reasons and has a clue what its doing.

[Fisk]

But we know so much more than team management.

[Emp9]

But we know so much more than team management.

 

Sometimes... I actually think some of us fans do. This goes for fans of any team really. We only have one view point from 50,000 feet, but it's definitely a view point and it's one where you can usually see the big picture if you look hard enough.

[Bellhorn04]

Sometimes... I actually think some of us fans do. This goes for fans of any team really. We only have one view point from 50,000 feet, but it's definitely a view point and it's one where you can usually see the big picture if you look hard enough.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of fans who think they know what the right move is...the funny thing is, though, they not only disagree with management, they disagree with each other a lot of the time.

[cp176]

And once in a while you have to say, well, maybe the team's management has its reasons and has a clue what its doing.

 

The implication here is that I don't think that management has its reasons for doing things? Sorry Bellhorn - laughable. I am a proud supporter of everything DD and management does. Bothers me not one bit to say for instance that I agree with the Pomeranz trade. I'm not that subtle. Much more obvious.

[cp176]

I'm guessing there would be a lot of interest because of his versatility.

 

 

You might be right

[cp176]

But we know so much more than team management.

 

 

Many of the illustrious posters her might think that they do Fisk but not me. it is still quite possible that they have never been particularly blown away with trade offers for Brock Holt.

[Bellhorn04]

The implication here is that I don't think that management has its reasons for doing things? Sorry Bellhorn - laughable. I am a proud supporter of everything DD and management does. Bothers me not one bit to say for instance that I agree with the Pomeranz trade. I'm not that subtle. Much more obvious.

 

Sorry man, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all...I was just adding to what you were saying.

[S5Dewey]

Getting back to the Brock Holt discussion, I'm one of those guys who didn't want to trade him back when Moon wanted to and now I'd be willing to make that trade in the right situation. Why? Because we now have someone who could take Holt's place in Hernandez. I don't want to see this team make a trade for the sake of making a trade - or even because they can get good value back - and in the process leave a gaping hole on the team. Holt is a Zobrist kinda guy - able to play any position. Picking up a pitching prospect two years ago in exchange for Holt would have left us shorthanded at UIF and taken away OF depth. Now we could trade Holt and still be covered at those positions. Situations change.

[cp176]

Sorry man, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all...I was just adding to what you were saying.

 

All good - you are one of the good guys. I appreciate the fact that you can have a good conversation with someone like you. I was just having one of my moments.

[moonslav59]

"As I recall, I was all alone the first time I brought it up."

 

Naw, I was all for trading him in the offseason coming off his AS appearance when his stock was sky high ( on BDC).

 

Yes, you were, but I suggested a trade during the allstar season (until Pedey got hurt).

 

[moonslav59]

I quite honestly would and would have been in favor of trading him but I just don't think that we need what he would bring in return. We have plenty of bats and balls. Be realistic. He does his job - he does what he is asked to do and he does it well. No more no less. Trade ideas are just wonderful but unfortunately for the dreamers you have to have another interested party.

 

I think there were interested partners over the off season, but I guess nobody offered something good enough.

 

If I had to bet, I'd say Marco has a better chance of being traded than Holt, but I would not do it.

 

My idea would be to trade Holt with Hembree (who I am very high on) or Abad (who I am pretty "low" on) for a much better RP'er... like a good #2 set-up guy or an excellent #3. Hembree and Abad are out of options, so when Thornburg and Smith return, we'll have an easier choice to make on who to send down. We can actually send down the worst of the bunch rather than only a guy with options remaining.

[moonslav59]

Getting back to the Brock Holt discussion, I'm one of those guys who didn't want to trade him back when Moon wanted to and now I'd be willing to make that trade in the right situation. Why? Because we now have someone who could take Holt's place in Hernandez. I don't want to see this team make a trade for the sake of making a trade - or even because they can get good value back - and in the process leave a gaping hole on the team. Holt is a Zobrist kinda guy - able to play any position. Picking up a pitching prospect two years ago in exchange for Holt would have left us shorthanded at UIF and taken away OF depth. Now we could trade Holt and still be covered at those positions. Situations change.

 

I thought Marco was ready last year, and I think his good spring has gotten others to see him as a near equal (or better) to Holt at 3B, SS and 2B. Holt's ability to play OF and 1B is something Marco cannot do, but with Shaw in the wings and back-up OF'ers costing a dime-a-dozen, I think we'd be fine, if not better, with Marco and Rutledge instead of Holt and Selsky.

 

Of course, if 2 IF'er or 2 OF'ers get hurt then we will be sorry we traded Holt, but those are chances we might want to take for the right return.

 

I see it this way, if many of us and Sox management value Holt so highly, there should be a desperate GM out there who also values him highly and needs a FT or near FT 2Bman, 3Bman, OF'er or a player that can maybe play 2B vs RHPs and 3B or OF vs LHPs and get 500+ PAs.

[Emp9]

I never thought we'd get a whole lot for holt and JUST Holt, unless some team got hit with a major injury bug. I always envisioned him as Part of a trade and most likely to an NL team. Love Holt, but thought he was more of a luxury in times of more pressing needs.

[Emp9]

Yes, you were, but I suggested a trade during the allstar season (until Pedey got hurt).

 

 

Ahh... I was on that train. Maybe not as vocal about it as in the off-season.

[mvp 78]

Why?

 

I thought you said he shouldn't be called up unless he plays FT for a guy out for the season. Doesn't he need to play everyday until the "training wheels are really coming off"?

 

If Holt goes down, I'd bring up Hernandez because Hernandez is far better option than Rutledge. Right now Holt is better than Hernandez. If you take Holt off the roster, my answer changes about what to do with Hernandez. If Holt is gone, there's a lot more playing time for Hernandez.

[moonslav59]

If Holt goes down, I'd bring up Hernandez because Hernandez is far better option than Rutledge. Right now Holt is better than Hernandez. If you take Holt off the roster, my answer changes about what to do with Hernandez. If Holt is gone, there's a lot more playing time for Hernandez.

 

Fair enough. I don't think the utility guy for the Sox will play much this year, unless there's an injury. Unlike last year, LF looks to be all set and 3B looks to be Pablo's job for at least a long look-see.

[Bellhorn04]

Holt has a tendency to get off to a hot start and then fade. So once his hot start is over you phantom DL him and bring up Marco. Can't believe nobody else has suggested this yet.

[moonslav59]

Holt has a tendency to get off to a hot start and then fade. So once his hot start is over you phantom DL him and bring up Marco. Can't believe nobody else has suggested this yet.

 

Maybe he should start the first week of every season!

 

2016: 1.058 OPS after the first 7 games

2015: 1.263 OPS after first 6 games

2014: .968 after first 6 games

[mvp 78]

Fair enough. I don't think the utility guy for the Sox will play much this year, unless there's an injury. Unlike last year, LF looks to be all set and 3B looks to be Pablo's job for at least a long look-see.

 

I think they'll play often enough because that's how Farrell has managed it so far in his career here.

[moonslav59]

I think they'll play often enough because that's how Farrell has managed it so far in his career here.

 

He may rest full timers a little more than other managers, but the main reason Holt and other subs have gotten a lot of playing time over the last 2 years is because we have not had a stand alone LF'er and 3B has been a mess. That may or may not change, but barring any major injuries, I don't see Holt playing the OF much at all this year, and unless Pablo fizzles, there won't be much time for the bench in the IF either this year.

 

PAs at these two positions:

 

LF 2016

222 Holt (+11 in RF)

190 Young (was injured)

102 Beni (was on the farm)

58 Brentz

51 Swihart

9 Others

 

LF 2015

379 HanRam

102 Castillo

86 de Aza

51 JBJ

32 Holt (+87 in CF+RF)

21 Craig

13 others

 

LF 2014

190 Gomes

185 Cespedes

131 Nava

91 Sizemore

32 Holt (+150 in CF+RF)

31 Carp

26 others

 

3B 2016

392 Shaw

119 Hill

39 Rutledge

38 Holt

27 Hernandez

18 Moncada

12 others

(Pablo injured)

 

3B 2015

501 Pablo

105 Holt

42 Marrero

23 Shaw

13 others

 

3B 2014 (Pre-Pablo)

230 Middy

180 Bogey

162 Holt

31 cecchini

30 Herrera

21 Roberts

11 others

 

Again, unless there are major injuries or several minor ones, Young will probably get the 4th OF'er PAs. He could DH and Holt might get OF PAs only when players need rest. 3B could turn into a platoon, and Holt does hit lefties slightly better than righties, so he could get significant PAs at 3B this year, but I doubt he gets the 490+ PAs he got in 2014 and 2015, and he probably won't reach the 324 he had last year without something major happening.

 

JBJ played in 156 games last year. Betts played 158. Beni may not reach those numbers this year, but he's going to play 140+. (Pablo probably will too.)

[oldtimer]

I thought Marco was ready last year, and I think his good spring has gotten others to see him as a near equal (or better) to Holt at 3B, SS and 2B. Holt's ability to play OF and 1B is something Marco cannot do, but with Shaw in the wings and back-up OF'ers costing a dime-a-dozen, I think we'd be fine, if not better, with Marco and Rutledge instead of Holt and Selsky.

 

Of course, if 2 IF'er or 2 OF'ers get hurt then we will be sorry we traded Holt, but those are chances we might want to take for the right return.

 

I see it this way, if many of us and Sox management value Holt so highly, there should be a desperate GM out there who also values him highly and needs a FT or near FT 2Bman, 3Bman, OF'er or a player that can maybe play 2B vs RHPs and 3B or OF vs LHPs and get 500+ PAs.

 

Trading Marco would be a mistake. Holt is also a very good utility player but probably fits better elsewhere than with us. Marco is young and his abilities are still on the rise. He can fill the utility role in the infield and can play every day should someone get injured. I don't see Rutledge as significant trade bait.