A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[mvp 78]

I find it hard to believe that wonderful Giants fans would do any sort of character assassination on Pablo:

 

We have Gillaspie, and Nunez, Left field is the spot we need someone for. Plus, the way Pablo put on weight once he left wasn't good in any way. His stomach resembled a woman with baby.

 

Pablo, needs to have someone stay on him about his weight, what to eat, how much to eat, etc. So, thats a deal breaker if he won't follow the rules that the Giants set up to make sure he stayed on track. He was useless to the red sox because of his weakness for food.

 

Personally, I don't think it's a good move. Because he is not serious about keeping the weight off.

 

Weakness for food? Not serious about keeping the weight off? That's just not fair to Pablo!

[a700hitter]

Pablo chose Boston over SF, because Ben was dumb enough not to put a weight clause in his contract.

[moonslav59]

They ought to just slip laxatives in Pablo's clubhouse buffet.

[mvp 78]

I have zero interest in this. Absolutely zero. He was a clubhouse cancer (per Tim Flannery) and he left pouting like an 8 year old. No thanks.

 

or

 

That whale has sailed.

 

or

 

No comparison of Pablito vs. Shark, thank you. Shark has an upside. Pablo's only chance for expanding performance is in his waistline.

 

Whoever started that rumor is seriously deranged.

 

Why is it that only Boston fans are mean to underperforming players?!?!?!?!?!?

[mvp 78]

Pablo chose Boston over SF, because Ben was dumb enough not to put a weight clause in his contract.

 

Thanks Ben!

[a700hitter]

Thanks Ben!

Thanks Uncle Ben's.

[mvp 78]

Thanks Uncle Ben's.

 

He should have stuck with the Rice-A-Roni for our sake.

[Spudboy]

He should have stuck with the Rice-A-Roni for our sake.

 

Now that is f***ing funny.

[harmony]

What does this mean exactly? Do you have any specific examples of these fan solutions?

To varying degrees, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Adrian Gonzalez were vilified by a wide swath of Boston fans and media.

 

Two of the three generally disappointed after their trade to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No doubt some Dodger fans expressed their disappointment but the typical displeasure was not as vile as that generated in Boston. Again, a generalization.

 

It comes down to how we hold people accountable.

 

Perhaps we can draw an analogy to an abusive relationship. For example, a woman can be subjected to her husband's physical and emotional abuse, which is not limited to calling her a "fat slob" in public. The wife may have genuine shortcomings but the husband's response is abusive. The woman divorces the abusive husband and ultimately marries a man who recognizes her same shortcomings but responds by either helping her address the shortcomings, tolerating the shortcomings or a combination of both.

 

Should the woman be blamed for her inability to cope with the intensity of the first marriage?

 

The bottom line is how we treat our fellow human beings. I give the MLB player the same respect I give the 6-year-old T-baller. An MLB player does not lose respect because he earns $10 million a year. I can be disappointed with the performance of the MLB player or the T-baller but that does not give me the right to belittle either. I should probably remain silent unless I can offer ways to improve the situation. On the other hand, an MLB player or T-baller who spits on an umpire will lose some respect.

 

Work environments vary employer to employer. The work environment for a professional athlete in New England might be different from the work environment for a professional athlete elsewhere. The rare MLB player with a choice of employers could take that into consideration.

[Bellhorn04]

To varying degrees, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Adrian Gonzalez were vilified by a wide swath of Boston fans and media.

 

Two of the three generally disappointed after their trade to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No doubt some Dodger fans expressed their disappointment but the typical displeasure was not as vile as that generated in Boston. Again, a generalization.

 

It's too much of a generalization. Boston is known as a tough place to play, there's no doubt about that. But if the fans and media are as bad as you're implying, all these free agents wouldn't be coming here in the first place. Unless you're saying that the players who sign here are so ignorant that they have no clue what they're getting into.

[mvp 78]

To varying degrees, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Adrian Gonzalez were vilified by a wide swath of Boston fans and media.

 

Two of the three generally disappointed after their trade to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No doubt some Dodger fans expressed their disappointment but the typical displeasure was not as vile as that generated in Boston. Again, a generalization.

 

This is just nonsense. Carl Crawford was treated with kid gloves when he was here. Josh Beckett wasn't treated poorly until all of the Chicken and Beer stuff happened. People didn't like AGon's diminishing power, but I don't remember anyone really complaining about him as a player. There was no wide swath of fans vilifying any of these three.

[S5Dewey]

This is just nonsense. Carl Crawford was treated with kid gloves when he was here. Josh Beckett wasn't treated poorly until all of the Chicken and Beer stuff happened. People didn't like AGon's diminishing power, but I don't remember anyone really complaining about him as a player. There was no wide swath of fans vilifying any of these three.

 

I was with you until you brought AGon into the conversation. I remember all the chatter about his "God's will" comment as well as the talk about his complaining about the scheduling. IIRC there was a lot of the STFU attitude from the fans.

 

All three of those players got free passes as long as they were performing as well as the fans expected. (Well, OK, Crawford never did perform that well, but anyway...). The fact is that we as fans have expectations for players and it usually doesn't revolve around their salaries.

 

Iggy @ $2M was vilified as much as any of the three in spite of the difference in his salary. JBJ was being thrown on the scrap heap in spite of his GG defense and his playing for the ML minimum. We expect them to perform well no matter how much money they make and when they don't perform well the fans hold them accountable. IMO that's fair. It goes along with being a professional athlete.

[Bellhorn04]

I was with you until you brought AGon into the conversation. I remember all the chatter about his "God's will" comment as well as the talk about his complaining about the scheduling. IIRC there was a lot of the STFU attitude from the fans.

 

All three of those players got free passes as long as they were performing as well as the fans expected. (Well, OK, Crawford never did perform that well, but anyway...). The fact is that we as fans have expectations for players and it usually doesn't revolve around their salaries.

 

Iggy @ $2M was vilified as much as any of the three in spite of the difference in his salary. JBJ was being thrown on the scrap heap in spite of his GG defense and his playing for the ML minimum. We expect them to perform well no matter how much money they make and when they don't perform well the fans hold them accountable. IMO that's fair. It goes along with being a professional athlete.

 

Yes, but if you go to the internet forums for other teams (as mvp went to the SF Giants site) I'm sure you'll find similar complaining and badmouthing by fans. I've done it myself and found it amusing that they sounded just like us. People aren't that different from one place to another. (There are lots of reasonable people on every team's site too.) Its all part of internet behavior.

[mvp 78]

I went back and looked through the 2012 threads and there isn't much whining about AGon.

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/15655-Adrian-Gonzalez-s-Power-Outage-and-Previous-11-of-13-Next-Jon-Lester-s-Baffling-Incon

 

In this post http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/15847-So-you-re-the-Sox-GM-What-s-your-plan there is zero discussion of moving on from AGon at the deadline.

 

There is mild criticism of AGon on this post http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/15923-Report-Gonzo-Sox-blast-Bobby-V-to-Owners, but it is not a wide swath of fans as it seems most people agreed that Valentine sucked and saw that AGon and Pedroia were basically saying the same stuff. Hell, there were more posts complaining about Papi rants than posts about AGon. That certainly doesn't mean Papi was hated by a large swath of fans.

 

Maybe it was a bigger deal on other boards? I just don't really remember anyone really caring about AGon talking about back to back games, or headphones or whatever...

[mvp 78]

Yes, but if you go to the internet forums for other teams (as mvp went to the SF Giants site) I'm sure you'll find similar complaining and badmouthing by fans. I've done it myself and found it amusing that they sounded just like us. People aren't that different from one place to another. (There are lots of reasonable people on every team's site too.) Its all part of internet behavior.

 

Exactly. The days of Boston being a hard place to play in are long gone.

[moonslav59]

To varying degrees, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Adrian Gonzalez were vilified by a wide swath of Boston fans and media.

 

Two of the three generally disappointed after their trade to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No doubt some Dodger fans expressed their disappointment but the typical displeasure was not as vile as that generated in Boston. Again, a generalization.

 

It comes down to how we hold people accountable.

 

Perhaps we can draw an analogy to an abusive relationship. For example, a woman can be subjected to her husband's physical and emotional abuse, which is not limited to calling her a "fat slob" in public. The wife may have genuine shortcomings but the husband's response is abusive. The woman divorces the abusive husband and ultimately marries a man who recognizes her same shortcomings but responds by either helping her address the shortcomings, tolerating the shortcomings or a combination of both.

 

Should the woman be blamed for her inability to cope with the intensity of the first marriage?

 

The bottom line is how we treat our fellow human beings. I give the MLB player the same respect I give the 6-year-old T-baller. An MLB player does not lose respect because he earns $10 million a year. I can be disappointed with the performance of the MLB player or the T-baller but that does not give me the right to belittle either. I should probably remain silent unless I can offer ways to improve the situation. On the other hand, an MLB player or T-baller who spits on an umpire will lose some respect.

 

Work environments vary employer to employer. The work environment for a professional athlete in New England might be different from the work environment for a professional athlete elsewhere. The rare MLB player with a choice of employers could take that into consideration.

 

Lackey was villified, then after he was traded, people came unhinged.

[moonslav59]

Mets To Re-Sign Yoenis Cespedes

By Jeff Todd | November 29, 2016 at 1:11pm CDT

 

The Mets have struck a deal to re-sign star slugger Yoenis Cespedes, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). It’s a four-year, $110MM deal, per Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (Twitter link).

[moonslav59]

Mets To Re-Sign Yoenis Cespedes

By Jeff Todd | November 29, 2016 at 1:11pm CDT

 

The Mets have struck a deal to re-sign star slugger Yoenis Cespedes, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). It’s a four-year, $110MM deal, per Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (Twitter link).

 

I'd rather have Cespedes at $110M/4 than EE at $110/5 or whatever he ends up getting.

 

(We could then trade JBJ or Beni for something really special.)

[Jack Flap]

To varying degrees, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Adrian Gonzalez were vilified by a wide swath of Boston fans and media.

 

Two of the three generally disappointed after their trade to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No doubt some Dodger fans expressed their disappointment but the typical displeasure was not as vile as that generated in Boston. Again, a generalization.

 

I'd be interested in seeing some evidence for these assertions.

 

If all it takes is some media idiots and internet posters shooting their mouths/keyboards off in frustration, then that's a pretty low bar, and everyone from David Ortiz on down has been "vilified" at some point in recent years.

[mvp 78]

Lackey was villified, then after he was traded, people came unhinged.

 

The reaction to Lackey was as follows:

1. He's ok, but I wish he was a little better, maybe he's just a postseason guy.

2. He completely sucks. WTH? He's absolutely dogshit.

3. Chicken and beer rabble rabble rabble (which many people on here didn't care about).

4. Oh, I guess he gets a pass for being injured. Maybe he can be serviceable after surgery.

5. Hey, this guy isn't so bad and his contract is cheap for 2015!

6. Wait, we're trading him for Joe Kelly and a broken down Allen Craig? I guess they have upside? FML.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I'd rather have Cespedes at $110M/4 than EE at $110/5 or whatever he ends up getting.

 

(We could then trade JBJ or Beni for something really special.)

 

I doubt there would've been any interest in that "reunion" from either Cespedes or the Sox.

[harmony]

New England's largest newspaper did not let up after Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez departed:

 

As dumb and dysfunctional as the Sox were last year, Gonzo is a fraud. And Crawford sounds like a wimp.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/16/carl-crawford-adrian-gonzalez-still-complaining-about-boston/xFuFQGrlGdHLEXynRMRk7K/story.html

 

Again, legitimate issues need to be addressed but how the issues are addressed makes a difference.

 

The Red Sox indeed attract top free agents, some overpaid and probably fewer underpaid. Money speaks.

[Spudboy]

In any case, Pablo made his own problems by not performing well and then by showing up in even worse shape for his second year. That is on him and only him.

 

Somehow I see any fan base in MLB reacting the same as Boston fans if he had done that on their team.

[Bellhorn04]

New England's largest newspaper did not let up after Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez departed:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/16/carl-crawford-adrian-gonzalez-still-complaining-about-boston/xFuFQGrlGdHLEXynRMRk7K/story.html

 

Shaughnessy, what a surprise.

[mvp 78]

New England's largest newspaper did not let up after Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez departed:

 

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/16/carl-crawford-adrian-gonzalez-still-complaining-about-boston/xFuFQGrlGdHLEXynRMRk7K/story.html

 

Again, legitimate issues need to be addressed but how the issues are addressed makes a difference.

 

The Red Sox indeed attract top free agents, some overpaid and probably fewer underpaid. Money speaks.

 

f*** Dan Shaughnessy. He doesn't represent the fan base or even the media.

[a700hitter]

I'd rather have Cespedes at $110M/4 than EE at $110/5 or whatever he ends up getting.

 

(We could then trade JBJ or Beni for something really special.)

We got a Cuban born player for $72 million!!

[moonslav59]

We got a Cuban born player for $72 million!!

 

No quotas under the Trump regime.

[moonslav59]

Rich Hill might make $50M/3 at age 36.

 

The Yanks, Dodgers, Rangers and Astros are all in pursuit with the Sox and Orioles showing some interest according to Jeff Todd.

 

If we got Hill, we could afford to trade a starter for something good (3B? DH?)

[Bellhorn04]

Rich Hill might make $50M/3 at age 36.

 

The Yanks, Dodgers, Rangers and Astros are all in pursuit with the Sox and Orioles showing some interest according to Jeff Todd.

 

If we got Hill, we could afford to trade a starter for something good (3B? DH?)

 

The Yanks will probably get him.

[Bellhorn04]

New England's largest newspaper did not let up after Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez departed:

 

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/16/carl-crawford-adrian-gonzalez-still-complaining-about-boston/xFuFQGrlGdHLEXynRMRk7K/story.html

 

Again, legitimate issues need to be addressed but how the issues are addressed makes a difference.

 

The Red Sox indeed attract top free agents, some overpaid and probably fewer underpaid. Money speaks.

 

I thought the Giants offered Pablo the same deal as we did, or close to it.